FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[dirtybirds30-0]

As previously noted...Williams is walking through the rest of the season...Amherst may be the ONLY team that could stop them.

[Col. Partridge]

I see. Thanks for the input. But my experience on campus is somewhat to the contrary, being a student in a NESCAC who has friends on the football team you begin to learn that student athletes get preferential treatment. Whether that be in financial/merit aid (Which is sometimes not really earned but given for the sole purpose of enticing prospective athlete) or more generally in acceptance of sub par students. I love footabll and I love that kids are being rewarded for their abilities. I was only wondering if any other students noticed the same at their schools.

Now, I am not biased towards any end of this debate. But I wanted to throw out what I have witnessed on my own campus.

- Chas
I love NESCAC sports.

the TIP system, by definition, gives preferential treatment to athletes. Not just for football, but other sports as well. Football teams get more "tips" because, well, football teams have more kids (75 to be exact - no other sport comes close). Unless I'm mistaken, each school gets about 60, 10 of which are allocated to the football team. Everyone else has to get in on their own.

As for athletes getting more financial aid, i've never heard that. I was under the impression that it was a need-based system. If athletes get more, they must need more, which is purely coincidental.

It appears that alucardz's school does give a limited amount of merit aid:
http://www.hamilton.edu/admission/finaid/scholarships.html

I also thought the NESCAC agreed on 72 tips per school.  The Little Three schools then voluntarily agreed on 66 each, and Bowdoin indicated it would admit an unspecified number less than 72.  As a Wes alum, I know the administration wants to keep up with the Joneses, but with a larger student body to absorb the tips and a football team that needs all the help it can get, I don't think that was a wise move.

[chessdoc]

First off, glad to see the trinity bashing cooling off, would just like to say that the nescac expierience has got to be the best athletic thing I have observed in 30 years. In the middlebury a coach came up to us after the game, remembered talking to my son . The feeling one gets seeing a freshmen, given a chance no matter how trivial, the fun  of the jv games, and the fact the seniors show so much class even in losing is wonderful. As a prelim to the bates trip we watched darius butler (uconn) , sam young notre dame and Heard about brett swensens winning kick for michigan state. In the final analysis Im not sure who got the best deal those teammates parents or me. God gives different people different talent. In the end its what you do with what you have. You see later in life the scorecard changes, Bates win or lose prepares (asit seems all the nescac does). For that game in the future. All I can say is the cold weather fits us well. A win might be nice but That is sure to come.

[Ephmen1991]

Fells,

Midd always has had great athletes on that team.  Hopefully this will be the year that Williams hockey or lacrosse can make a run at you guys.

As far as local rivalries go, Williams used to play Union up until the late 80's.  We also had a very intense rivalry in hockey and lacrosse (JV - which was made up of a lot of football players) with North Adams State College, which is now the Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts.  It's a shame that they don't have football there, I think they have given up hockey too.

[Jonny Utah]

I see. Thanks for the input. But my experience on campus is somewhat to the contrary, being a student in a NESCAC who has friends on the football team you begin to learn that student athletes get preferential treatment. Whether that be in financial/merit aid (Which is sometimes not really earned but given for the sole purpose of enticing prospective athlete) or more generally in acceptance of sub par students. I love footabll and I love that kids are being rewarded for their abilities. I was only wondering if any other students noticed the same at their schools.

Now, I am not biased towards any end of this debate. But I wanted to throw out what I have witnessed on my own campus.

- Chas
I love NESCAC sports.

The director of financial aid at any school can give aid if you ask for it (within a certain degree).  Basically you can call up and plead with the school to give you more money.  Its actually kind of an unofficial business in a way.  Sometimes coaches facilitate this process with the school and the students.

I still wouldnt say the academic integrity is questioned though.

[Hoaf]

I get the point guys. I had no idea about the TIPS program.

Anyone have any predictions for this weekend?

Has anyone seen Williams play? Is their any weakness in their offense or defense? Who are their "go to" guys? How do they play, more pass or more run?

- Chas

[Trinity 8(5)0]

  Trinity has been the main culprit in this race to the bottom of academic standards. In doing so, it has brought shame on itself --yes, great shame indeed, and created the sense around the league that it is cutting corners for the misguided goal of a winning NESCAC football program. All this in a league constrained from NCAA participation ( probably for our own good ), which makes the whole venture a real fool's errand. The shame I feel today is so real, so palpable, and I blame it all on a group of well-intentioned, yet misguided, souls at the college who should be summarily cashiere. Today, the school is the dog's breakfast of the league in terms of academic standing and integrity...and I grieve for what the school has lost in the way it has chosen to win on the field. Hollow, costly victories, indeed, Pat.

     Concerning tips, alucardz, keep in mind that many of those receiving tips are two sport athletes so that a single tip can often double the benefit athletically. Two-sport tip designees are often given preference  by admissions over those who are merely one sport participants. ( Indeed, coaches approaching their tip thresholds from time to time have another coach designate someone they covet in exchange for a similar favor down the road  ). The bottomline is that as more schools realized the fact that a good number of tips were two-sport players, they could cut back the tip number and placate those faculty, students and alums clamoring for their schools to throttle back on the recruiting. Some schools did the right thing, IMO, and trimmed that number....others didn't. The tip system is self-imposed, self-policed and lacking in transparency. I don't like it.

As I've said in the past I feel an AI could help mend the rancorous gulf between the athletic and academic communities. The AI would go a long way to healing this situation, particularly at some of the lower-ranked schools in the NESCAC ( e.g.Trin ). The AI isn't perfect but it is more transparent and it's standards are clear. The biggest upside is the faith and trust it would engendered between the athletic community and the rest of the college, particularly at some of the lower-ranked schools in the league.

      In Trinity's case I feel that sterner measures are warranted, Capt Partridge. Here, I feel a faculty oversight committee should be looking into the football program at Trinity, as well as the conduct of its players, and it's findings carefully considered. Damage has been done, but with some strong measures-- for starters, how about dropping the sport to the club level status its play refects-- this academic/reputation cost center can be cleaned up.  No school should put its reputation at stake for the sake of something as badly played as NESCAC football. Trinity is a case study in the folly of going down that road.

On a lighter note-- and just to show Pat and you all that I'm a regular guy-- I like Amherst's chances against Williams this year. Playing at home is an enormous advantage in that series and that, along with Amherst's balance, should stand them in good stead. The Jeffs need to cut down on penalties, avoid key injuries the week before in Hartford and improve their punting, but all certainly looks very good for a Jeff victory at this point. Very good indeed, Capt Partridge. Amherst plays here vs Trinity in a couple weeks and that game may take its toll on the Jeffs. In other action, Wesleyan may put up its best fight in years vs Trinity in years.

Capt Partridge, I like the cut of your gib. We seem to birds of the same feather. You'd no doubt look fetching with a tee-shirt emblazoned with a Cardinal red "A.I.  Yes!! " Wear it to the Trinity game, my good man!

Regards to all. My time's up.

[Jonny Utah]

  Trinity has been the main culprit in this race to the bottom of academic standards. In doing so, it has brought shame on itself --yes, great shame indeed, and created the sense around the league that it is cutting corners for the misguided goal of a winning NESCAC football program. All this in a league constrained from NCAA participation ( probably for our own good ), which makes the whole venture a real fool's errand. The shame I feel today is so real, so palpable, and I blame it all on a group of well-intentioned, yet misguided, souls at the college who should be summarily cashiere. Today, the school is the dog's breakfast of the league in terms of academic standing and integrity...and I grieve for what the school has lost in the way it has chosen to win on the field. Hollow, costly victories, indeed, Pat.

     Concerning tips, alucardz, keep in mind that many of those receiving tips are two sport athletes so that a single tip can often double the benefit athletically. Two-sport tip designees are often given preference  by admissions over those who are merely one sport participants. ( Indeed, coaches approaching their tip thresholds from time to time have another coach designate someone they covet in exchange for a similar favor down the road  ). The bottomline is that as more schools realized the fact that a good number of tips were two-sport players, they could cut back the tip number and placate those faculty, students and alums clamoring for their schools to throttle back on the recruiting. Some schools did the right thing, IMO, and trimmed that number....others didn't. The tip system is self-imposed, self-policed and lacking in transparency. I don't like it.

As I've said in the past I feel an AI could help mend the rancorous gulf between the athletic and academic communities. The AI would go a long way to healing this situation, particularly at some of the lower-ranked schools in the NESCAC ( e.g.Trin ). The AI isn't perfect but it is more transparent and it's standards are clear. The biggest upside is the faith and trust it would engendered between the athletic community and the rest of the college, particularly at some of the lower-ranked schools in the league.

      In Trinity's case I feel that sterner measures are warranted, Capt Partridge. Here, I feel a faculty oversight committee should be looking into the football program at Trinity, as well as the conduct of its players, and it's findings carefully considered. Damage has been done, but with some strong measures-- for starters, how about dropping the sport to the club level status its play refects-- this academic/reputation cost center can be cleaned up.  No school should put its reputation at stake for the sake of something as badly played as NESCAC football. Trinity is a case study in the folly of going down that road.

On a lighter note-- and just to show Pat and you all that I'm a regular guy-- I like Amherst's chances against Williams this year. Playing at home is an enormous advantage in that series and that, along with Amherst's balance, should stand them in good stead. The Jeffs need to cut down on penalties, avoid key injuries the week before in Hartford and improve their punting, but all certainly looks very good for a Jeff victory at this point. Very good indeed, Capt Partridge. Amherst plays here vs Trinity in a couple weeks and that game may take its toll on the Jeffs. In other action, Wesleyan may put up its best fight in years vs Trinity in years.

Capt Partridge, I like the cut of your gib. We seem to birds of the same feather. You'd no doubt look fetching with a tee-shirt emblazoned with a Cardinal red "A.I.  Yes!! " Wear it to the Trinity game, my good man!

Regards to all. My time's up.

Dude, you should have tried a little harder in the weightroom and you might have made the team.....

[Trinity 8(5)0]

   JPU, you're right about me being weak... but how did you know?

   Capt. Partridge,  I meant "jib" .

    I'm weak and tired.

[Pat Coleman]

Hollow, costly victories, indeed, Pat.

Is there a reason you chose to invoke me in your diatribe?

[chessdoc]

Its interesting to see a slight rotation of power among the teams. Thats clearly helathy and adds interest to a division with trinity dominating of late. The recruiting disadvantage has alot more to do with geography than organization in my mind. As I travel from florida to maine each weekend I read the maine papers, toatal lack of coverage of bates, bowdoin, colby. Why? more importantly maine hs football growth seems real. This should translate to some improvement in maine teams win-loss ratio in the future. Also the recruiting diatribe is not accurate from my point of view. The pain inflicted on bates this year was by players from the area not stars from florida, california or texas. This is a local issue with the occassional recruit making a difference. I think equality will rotte in the future, bates is clearly making a huge effort to improve football despite a winless season. The jv frankly looks great, a future star qb is being developed no doubt, and a fantastic set of recievers, the future looks great and the parents are really into it. Its also interesting that bates did great against williams, middlebury in the first half. depth is clearly the issue , it will come.

[bant551]

Trinity 8(5)0 wrote:

"just to show Pat and you all that I'm a regular guy"

This, my friends, is the most hilarious thing anyone has ever written on this board. 

I know regular guys, Trinity8(5)0.  I've hung out with regular guys.  I've worked with regular guys.  I've gone to middle school, high school, college and grad school and have met regular guys.  You, my friend, are no regular guy!!!

Uninformed and broad comments about the Williams-Amherst game notwithstanding, you might be the lamest, least informed, most jealous non-athlete to ever walk the planet.

Dave Barnard would be proud of you, and if you keep up the pathetic, whiny attitude, you'll end up joining him on the unemployment lines.

[Col. Partridge]

Ignore him/her.   8(5)0 sounds as if he/she is the son/daughter of this letter writer:

edited to shorten link

[bant551]

HAHAHAHA, I think by the time you are an alum, you don't need mummy and daddy to write letters to the editor for you!!!

If we are going to have people whining about Trinity, might as well be alums themselves.  But this is just pathetic.  Trinity 8(5)0, you are absolutely pathetic.

Have at it Momma's boy!

[Trin9-0]

There isn't a chance in hell that 8(5)0 ever went to Trinity. He's just another Trin-hater who enjoys posting nonsense to get a rise out of all of us. It's shameful that in the midst of one of the most exciting NESCAC seasons in recent years we are still stuck debating Trinity's academics.

Trin has its problems like every other school. However, the football program is not one of them. And in regards to the letter written by the Trinity parent, I couldn't disagree more. President Jones is doing an outstanding job. His task of undoing the financial damage caused by Evan Dobell and the subsequent 3 presidents is daunting. However, I for one am confident that Trinity will begin making progress in the right direction.


The only hope the Bants have for a share of the title is for Amherst to beat Williams. No one else has a shot at the Ephs this year. Also, Trin would obviously have to win their remaining 3 games. With Midd and 'Herst still on the schedule it could be difficult. However, both those games are in Hartford and the Bants are very difficult to beat when playing in the friendly confines of Jesse/Miller Field.

As tough has the season has been for the CBB the remaining schedules for all three are favorable. Colby still has a shot at .500 and Bowdoin vs. Bates could be a battle to avoid going winless.

Any chance that the Conts could pull off one of the biggest NESCAC upsets of all time this week? They've allowed just over 7 points per game and always play better at home. If the Ephs look past Hamilton the race for the title would get a whole lot more interesting!