FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[lumbercat]

I wonder what the Hammer would say if asked to compare the quality of NESCAC football to the Wabash/Allegheny conferences ?

[GroundandPound]

https://twitter.com/WakeFB/status/1681782814885269506/photo/2
Wake Forest Warrior of the Week. 
Looking forward to all former NESCAC players having a great year in D1 :-)

[Gray Fox]

I wonder what the Hammer would say if asked to compare the quality of NESCAC football to the Wabash/Allegheny conferences ?

As well as the SCIAC when he was at Whittier.  Pomona and CMS still play football, and fit well with NESCAC schools.

[Pat Coleman]

I wonder what the Hammer would say if asked to compare the quality of NESCAC football to the Wabash/Allegheny conferences ?

As well as the SCIAC when he was at Whittier.  Pomona and CMS still play football, and fit well with NESCAC schools.

Matching up with the SCIAC and NCAC wouldn't even put the NESCAC in the upper half of conferences, most years.

[sigma one]

Pat, thanks for your point of view.  I really did not bother to respond to the question of how BJ would answer the question about the relative strength of the NESCAC v. the other conferences where he has coached.   I know you have broad knowledge of the national scene, so I value your thinking on the conferences from top to bottom.

[Gray Fox]

I wonder what the Hammer would say if asked to compare the quality of NESCAC football to the Wabash/Allegheny conferences ?

As well as the SCIAC when he was at Whittier.  Pomona and CMS still play football, and fit well with NESCAC schools.

Matching up with the SCIAC and NCAC wouldn't even put the NESCAC in the upper half of conferences, most years.

I meant academically for Pomona and CMS.

[westcoastnescac]

As someone who knows nationally recognized programs like Linfield (generally ranked in top 10 every year) and Whitworth well, there is no drop off in caliber of players in the nescac. Can't speak much to programs in the south/midwest.

[Pat Coleman]

As someone who knows nationally recognized programs like Linfield (generally ranked in top 10 every year) and Whitworth well, there is no drop off in caliber of players in the nescac. Can't speak much to programs in the south/midwest.

We'd have to see. I think that it's fair to believe that, once the NESCAC was in the playoffs for a few years, that their representative would fare as well as reps from the Liberty League and Centennial Conference, and those conferences have had teams make deep runs, including all the way to the semifinals on a handful of occasions in the past 25 years.

I think we would see an adjustment period as programs went from 9 games to 10/11/12 games. Going from 8 to 9 a few years ago was big progress in this direction as well -- think of a senior who had played 32 career games going up against someone who had played 40 and there might be a bit of a gap there as well. These things will even out over time.

[VoodooDoc]

The next step for NESCAC is to add a 10th game with an out of conference opponent. 

[westcoastnescac]

As someone who knows nationally recognized programs like Linfield (generally ranked in top 10 every year) and Whitworth well, there is no drop off in caliber of players in the nescac. Can't speak much to programs in the south/midwest.

We'd have to see. I think that it's fair to believe that, once the NESCAC was in the playoffs for a few years, that their representative would fare as well as reps from the Liberty League and Centennial Conference, and those conferences have had teams make deep runs, including all the way to the semifinals on a handful of occasions in the past 25 years.

I think we would see an adjustment period as programs went from 9 games to 10/11/12 games. Going from 8 to 9 a few years ago was big progress in this direction as well -- think of a senior who had played 32 career games going up against someone who had played 40 and there might be a bit of a gap there as well. These things will even out over time.

Strong point

[Charlie]

I would be curious to see the weightings/math involved. Trinity at 239/240 does not account for Fetter returning at QB, but I think top 4 RBs in terms of rushing yards are returning....Interesting data, thanks for sharing. Here are the full NESCAC breakdowns

Overall rank/240 Offense Defense Overall

1. Amherst 18/240 92.3% Offense, 81.2% Defense, 88.1% Overall
2. Bowdoin 21/240 92.7% Offense, 78% Defense, 87.1% Overall
3. Tufts 75/240 78.8% Offense, 68.3% Defense 74.8% Overall
4. Middlebury 95/240 71.7% Offense, 70.8% Defense, 71.4% Overall
5. Bates 174/240 62.2% Offense/39.7% Defense, 53.7% Overall
6. Wesleyan 182/240 47.8% Offense, 58.3% Defense, 51.8% Overall
7. Williams 189/240 48.1% Offense, 51% Defense, 49.2% Overall
8. Colby 203/240 22.3% Offense, 67.1% Defense, 45.5% Overall
9. Hamilton 226/240 32.3% Offense, 42.5% Defense, 36.2% Overall
10. Trinity 239/240 20% Offense, 13% Defense, 17.3% Overall

https://twitter.com/LogHanRatings/status/1628971383920242690/photo/1
More info.  This chart assumed all seniors were NOT coming back for this fall.

Mole ,

Trinity based on this information has the lowest amount of Seniors returning. Last years recruiting Class and this years Freshman class at Trinity appear stacked on paper. If these kids get some experience this year and win the chip they maybe destined for a three peat if they can remain without injuries. Do you know any other schools who have great recruiting classes the last two years. I know it is all speculative but would be curious to get your early input on recruiting classes.

[The Mole]

Bantams never going to be out of the mix. They'll find new players to step in, to your point about last two recruiting classes, Charlie. Lots of banter about Colby recruiting classes, but they need to show better results on the gridiron.

I have posted about this before, but IMHO the key to recruiting and success is finding players from good programs in good leagues where the level of competition is strong. I will use Amherst as an example with Saint Joe's Prep in Philly. Year in and out SJP is a contender for the state title in PA in the biggest classification (6A). Pennsylvania high school football top to bottom is not the best, but it is pretty good in absolute and relative terms, particularly versus New England, where many NESCAC players come from. SJP is in the Philadelphia Catholic League, one of the best leagues in the state. The Mammoths have done a great job with creating a pipeline into this program. You know a player from SJP has been coached well, had to compete to earn his spot and faced good opponents. A player from that league is going to be tough and tested.

Without knowing too much about the other states leagues/programs/competition it is hard for me personally to make a definitive call on "that is a great recruiting class." For many players, the junior year is the big leap. Many have not gotten much, if any playing time. They have grown and matured in the classroom, weight room and have adjusted to the speed of the college game. There will be a plethora of those kids making an impact across the league this season. Trinity, Middlebury and the Little 3 teams are the ones I would expect to benefit from this.

I would be curious to see the weightings/math involved. Trinity at 239/240 does not account for Fetter returning at QB, but I think top 4 RBs in terms of rushing yards are returning....Interesting data, thanks for sharing. Here are the full NESCAC breakdowns

Overall rank/240 Offense Defense Overall

1. Amherst 18/240 92.3% Offense, 81.2% Defense, 88.1% Overall
2. Bowdoin 21/240 92.7% Offense, 78% Defense, 87.1% Overall
3. Tufts 75/240 78.8% Offense, 68.3% Defense 74.8% Overall
4. Middlebury 95/240 71.7% Offense, 70.8% Defense, 71.4% Overall
5. Bates 174/240 62.2% Offense/39.7% Defense, 53.7% Overall
6. Wesleyan 182/240 47.8% Offense, 58.3% Defense, 51.8% Overall
7. Williams 189/240 48.1% Offense, 51% Defense, 49.2% Overall
8. Colby 203/240 22.3% Offense, 67.1% Defense, 45.5% Overall
9. Hamilton 226/240 32.3% Offense, 42.5% Defense, 36.2% Overall
10. Trinity 239/240 20% Offense, 13% Defense, 17.3% Overall

https://twitter.com/LogHanRatings/status/1628971383920242690/photo/1
More info.  This chart assumed all seniors were NOT coming back for this fall.

Mole ,

Trinity based on this information has the lowest amount of Seniors returning. Last years recruiting Class and this years Freshman class at Trinity appear stacked on paper. If these kids get some experience this year and win the chip they maybe destined for a three peat if they can remain without injuries. Do you know any other schools who have great recruiting classes the last two years. I know it is all speculative but would be curious to get your early input on recruiting classes.

[quicksilver]

I just read that the NESCAC preread deadline has been moved from July 1 to Aug. 1 for the class of 2028 and will move to Sept. 1 for the class of 2029. For next year's rercuits, that will leave coaches with only 2 or so months to nail down ED1 candidates, who will likeluy be looking at multiple NESCAC offers. I have yet to see an explanation/rationale for the change. No surprise since the NESCAC generally discloses very little about its internal practices regarding the admission of athletes.  It would seem like this change might move more atheletes to ED2 and its later date for the submission of applications.

[Scoops]

Honest question: Does the pre-read deadline really matter? I assume most of the schools within the league already have an idea of who they will pursue, and if they can have them admitted. And when their application can't be officially accepted until the early decision date anyway, does it really matter when they get their pre-read?

I just read that the NESCAC preread deadline has been moved from July 1 to Aug. 1 for the class of 2028 and will move to Sept. 1 for the class of 2029. For next year's rercuits, that will leave coaches with only 2 or so months to nail down ED1 candidates, who will likeluy be looking at multiple NESCAC offers. I have yet to see an explanation/rationale for the change. No surprise since the NESCAC generally discloses very little about its internal practices regarding the admission of athletes.  It would seem like this change might move more atheletes to ED2 and its later date for the submission of applications.

[Charlie]

Honest question: Does the pre-read deadline really matter? I assume most of the schools within the league already have an idea of who they will pursue, and if they can have them admitted. And when their application can't be officially accepted until the early decision date anyway, does it really matter when they get their pre-read?

I just read that the NESCAC preread deadline has been moved from July 1 to Aug. 1 for the class of 2028 and will move to Sept. 1 for the class of 2029. For next year's rercuits, that will leave coaches with only 2 or so months to nail down ED1 candidates, who will likeluy be looking at multiple NESCAC offers. I have yet to see an explanation/rationale for the change. No surprise since the NESCAC generally discloses very little about its internal practices regarding the admission of athletes.  It would seem like this change might move more atheletes to ED2 and its later date for the submission of applications.

More importantly curious to see with this extension how will roster limits affect this. When will the NESCAC go back to their roster limits I would think it would make recruiting that much harder won't be able to bring in 100 players a season. Has anyone heard when an if this will occur or if there will be a number adjustment.