FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[lumbercat]

Significant differences in the interpretation and application of banding and other NESCAC admission mechanisms and "controls" that are in the hands of each school. Far less consistent than the Ivies.

[GroundandPound]

So if it is all about lower academic standards, does that mean Williams, Middlebury and Amherst all lowered academic standards to win the outright titles they have (I think they total about 11 since 2020)?  No, I do not think they did.  I suspect that, generally speaking, most Trinity players simply out work most players on most other teams in the off-season both in the weight, in the dining hall, and in speed and mobility training.  A few years ago at a recruiting event by Amherst, the message from the HC was that any player or parent would be "lucky" to have their son play for Amherst.  The message sent and received, in my opinion, was that of complacency.   To suggest that one or more NESCAC schools has no standards or has un-reviewable malleable standards is, in my opinion, BS.   

[GroundandPound]

weight room

[GroundandPound]

https://athletics.wesleyan.edu/sports/football
No. 44 and 97 for Trinity just two LBs.
Their entire team, for the most part, is jacked.
If strength coaches released their team lifting averages by starting position groups, I suspect Trinity is No. 1 in almost all position groups.

[quicksilver]

Significant differences in the interpretation and application of banding and other NESCAC admission mechanisms and "controls" that are in the hands of each school. Far less consistent than the Ivies.

Plus each school has some discretion in assigning banded slots among the various sports. And even more discretion with regard to assigning "tips." Trinity is in the lower half of the NESCAC in its overall performance in sports so is likely over weighting in football in terms of number of slots in comparison to its NESCAC peers. In 2022-23, Trinity ranked 58th in the Learfield Cup, which treats all sports equally but gives zero points to NESCAC schools for football because of the lack of post-season play; only Colby, Bates, Hamilton, and Conn College were rated lower than Trinity in the Learfield standings in 2022-23. The top three NESCAC performers overall in sports as measured by the Learfield system in 2022-23 were Tufts (no. 2), Williams (no. 3), and Middlebury (no. 8). So the out-sized performance by Trinity in football over the years likely has a lot to do with the sport Trinity has chosen to emphasize . . 

[lumbercat]

Thats what Ive been trying to point out- G&P will see it if he scratches below the surface a bit. There is ample room for admission variation in NESCAC Athletics in a number of areas if a school chooses to do so.

[Midd1st9-0]

So if it is all about lower academic standards, does that mean Williams, Middlebury and Amherst all lowered academic standards to win the outright titles they have (I think they total about 11 since 2020)?  No, I do not think they did.  I suspect that, generally speaking, most Trinity players simply out work most players on most other teams in the off-season both in the weight, in the dining hall, and in speed and mobility training.  A few years ago at a recruiting event by Amherst, the message from the HC was that any player or parent would be "lucky" to have their son play for Amherst.  The message sent and received, in my opinion, was that of complacency.   To suggest that one or more NESCAC schools has no standards or has un-reviewable malleable standards is, in my opinion, BS.   

G&P, I think the idea that Trinity's dominance (albeit not complete) is because they "want it more" or "outwork" other teams is incredible. To insult the work ethic of other programs in this league, a league based on effort and the love of the game, it unconscionable. It doesn't matter how nice a weight room is, it matters what you do with it. If you have better players at your school, for whatever reason (academics, the "location" of Hartford, etc.) they will probably still be better players if they put the same amount of work in. The type of players they recruit should become all-region world beaters, transfer portal guys if they put in the level of offseason grind that you say they do. It's the NESCAC. Anyone who wants to be good works hard. Please don't devalue the work of 9 other teams and hundreds of players. Plenty of teams work incredibly hard, which is why they can hold a candle to Trinity and even go into the Coop and come out with a real win.

[Bantam4life]

Not shocked to see the Trinity slander from some unnamed people on the boards. Seems like my Dice comment caught some heat, I like to think these proud Wes alums who pride themselves on their school's strong academics knew I was being sarcastic. We have respect for Coach Dice and the way he's brought the program to a consistent top 4 finish in the league and has made the Trinity-Wes game be a respectable game except for this year of course. The dominant performance in Hartford can be attributed to many things including the work those men put in in the weight room, 4 days of heavy lifting and hard work a week shows results we can clearly see that. While Trinity's admissions standards may be a tad bit lower than some of the other schools thats not to say they're bringing in Beavis and Butthead in terms of students. Our sources told us that 80% of the Trinity roster had above a 3.0 GPA and around half had above a 3.5, which shows that the Student-Athletes are putting in the work to be successful here. Finally, have to say I'm shocked Sean Clapp did not receive OPOTW. His stats were quite absurd. Looking forward to seeing the Bants clinch a share of the Championship this Saturday in Brunswick.

[JEFFFAN]

It is pretty offensive to suggest that Trinity - or any school - wins more because they work harder than the other schools.  Under that line of reasoning, the year(s) that Trinity went 5-4 means that they must not have worked as hard.  Don't think so.

Trinity - or any of the schools that win for that matter - win largely, by a lot, because their talent level is higher than the competition.   The coaching staffs deserve credit for recruiting these kids, for developing them, for leading them to work hard, and for calling the right set of plays.   For all of these reasons, kudos to the Trinity staff for building a consistently good program.

But in the end, as a coach told me one time, "it is not about the Xs and Os, but all about the Jimmies and Joes."  Talent wins.

[Trin9-0]

You can watch a few clips from the Trinity-Wesleyan game here, but what really caught my attention were the postgame quotes by Nescacman's all-time favorite Bantam, who also happens to be Trinity's all-time leader in:

Touchdowns
Yards
Completions
Completion %
Total offense

Despite the frequent criticism, Fetter currently leads the league in all but one of those categories as well. I tend to agree with SpringSt's notion that he has been underappreciated. Most of those Trinity passing records were held by Joe Shield '85 (who was drafted by the Packers and spent 2 seasons in the NFL)... his last season was 39 years ago! Fetter is far from the only Trinity QB to play with a talented roster, but his numbers stack up with the best NESCAC QBs ever.

Middlebury's Donald McKillop, the league's all-time leader in passing yards, averaged 291 yards and 2.06 TDs per game, He also threw 44 interceptions. The Panthers record in the seasons he played was 21-11.
Fetter, with one game left, has averaged just 18 fewer yards per game (273) but nearly a full TD more per game (2.81) while throwing just 14 picks. His career record as a starter is 24-2.

You don't have to like Fetter, and I'm guessing his latest comments won't endear him to any of our Wesleyan faithful, but his play has more than earned some respect.


I honestly don't have the energy for another admissions debate. However, I do want to add that I too strongly disagree with G&P's claim that Trinity wins because they "work harder". If only he had stopped at this conclusion which I feel is much closer to the truth of the matter:

In my opinion, great coaching, great recruiting, great player development, and a great football tradition play a much more substantial and significant role in Trinity's consistent success.

[Scoops]

I can't believe I have to stand up for the roosters here, but this has been 2 days of really sad commentary surrounding the Trinity football program. Let's be honest, Wesleyan had no chance in this game. They have an incredibly weak secondary, and a turnstile offensive line. The better teams in the league took advantage of their flaws. So to say that they "ran up the score" is nothing more than "sour grapes". Frankly, it's a rivalry game. Rivalry games should have two teams trying to annihilate each other, and rub it in. Don't like it? Strap up and stop it.

I am quite far from a Trinity fan, but you have to respect the consistent success and commitment to their standards. They've had an easy run of it the last few years with Williams and Amherst being down, and Middlebury being inconsistent with their success. It's time for the rest of the league to step up and compete if they don't like it. There's no reason that Wesleyan/Tufts shouldn't be knocking on the door next year if they can both fix their consistency problems. Middlebury/Trinity both lose a lot of 5th years and key starters to graduation. Bowdoin can compete if they get healthy/haven't lost Boel for good. Time for one of those middle tier schools to seize their opportunity

[The Mole]

I guess Middlebury is mediocre as well, since they could not take advantage of the Cardinals flaws.

I can't believe I have to stand up for the roosters here, but this has been 2 days of really sad commentary surrounding the Trinity football program. Let's be honest, Wesleyan had no chance in this game. They have an incredibly weak secondary, and a turnstile offensive line. The better teams in the league took advantage of their flaws. So to say that they "ran up the score" is nothing more than "sour grapes". Frankly, it's a rivalry game. Rivalry games should have two teams trying to annihilate each other, and rub it in. Don't like it? Strap up and stop it.

I am quite far from a Trinity fan, but you have to respect the consistent success and commitment to their standards. They've had an easy run of it the last few years with Williams and Amherst being down, and Middlebury being inconsistent with their success. It's time for the rest of the league to step up and compete if they don't like it. There's no reason that Wesleyan/Tufts shouldn't be knocking on the door next year if they can both fix their consistency problems. Middlebury/Trinity both lose a lot of 5th years and key starters to graduation. Bowdoin can compete if they get healthy/haven't lost Boel for good. Time for one of those middle tier schools to seize their opportunity

[The truth 101]

Big time news out of Medford as it looks like the best receiver in the league Jaden Richardson has entered the portal as a grad transfer... Definitely has the frame jumping ability and speed to play big time ball. Can't wait to see where he ends up! https://twitter.com/Jaden_Rich5/status/1724206185858183216?t=prGSO_RhlOxODX6q20X0EQ&s=19

[lumbercat]

You can watch a few clips from the Trinity-Wesleyan game here, but what really caught my attention were the postgame quotes by Nescacman's all-time favorite Bantam, who also happens to be Trinity's all-time leader in:

Touchdowns
Yards
Completions
Completion %
Total offense

Despite the frequent criticism, Fetter currently leads the league in all but one of those categories as well. I tend to agree with SpringSt's notion that he has been underappreciated. Most of those Trinity passing records were held by Joe Shield '85 (who was drafted by the Packers and spent 2 seasons in the NFL)... his last season was 39 years ago! Fetter is far from the only Trinity QB to play with a talented roster, but his numbers stack up with the best NESCAC QBs ever.

Middlebury's Donald McKillop, the league's all-time leader in passing yards, averaged 291 yards and 2.06 TDs per game, He also threw 44 interceptions. The Panthers record in the seasons he played was 21-11.
Fetter, with one game left, has averaged just 18 fewer yards per game (273) but nearly a full TD more per game (2.81) while throwing just 14 picks. His career record as a starter is 24-2.

You don't have to like Fetter, and I'm guessing his latest comments won't endear him to any of our Wesleyan faithful, but his play has more than earned some respect.


I honestly don't have the energy for another admissions debate. However, I do want to add that I too strongly disagree with G&P's claim that Trinity wins because they "work harder". If only he had stopped at this conclusion which I feel is much closer to the truth of the matter:

In my opinion, great coaching, great recruiting, great player development, and a great football tradition play a much more substantial and significant role in Trinity's consistent success.

Good post 9-0

Agree- Let's get off the admissions thing. I only wish every NESCAC team would adopt the Bants admissions approach and provide Tutors for their Football players like Trinity does. I respect their commitment to the Football players.

No question Fetter has been a great QB- personally I'll take Sonny Puzzo in a close game but that's just my personal opinion. A lot tougher than Fetter who seems to project a bit of a pampered image. Puzzowould run a cornerback over and jog back to the huddle with no fanfare.

As far as G&Ps obsession with a dedicated Football weight room and Trinity guys being "jacked". Lets move on from that too.

[SpringSt7]

In a cruel and ironic twist as it pertains to Trinity and the reasons for their success, Chuck Priore was let go today at Stony Brook. He won 4 consecutive Big South titles from 2009-2012 but they couldn't find the same success in the CAA, just 2 winning seasons since they joined the conference in 2013 and they are 0-10 this year.