FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

Appreciate the take -- I just will add that one of the reasons we added the coaches' feedback into the process a while back was to try to delve more deeply into the cornerback question, to find out which corners had fewer interceptions and such because they were not being thrown at.

That feedback is also helpful for OL positions.

[GroundandPound]

So now the stats are even more lopsided towards Kenary since the Endicott DLineman's  stats are likely a bit lower dropping one post season game?  Also, Endicott DLineman  did not even get voted defensive player of the year for CCC.   If the TFLs and Sack stats were closer, I could understand, but they are not even in the same ballpark.  Just because other regions voted for an O and D player of year from the same conference does not mean voters in this region did not want to avoid having an O And D player of the year from the NESCAC.
DL stats do matter.   Well the only rational to counter the stats so far is playing three ranked opponents.  How come is own conference did not vote him defensive player of the year?  They knew the teams he played against?

[SpringSt7]

Sorry, I'm getting caught up, but are we comparing a DE's stats to a DT's stats?

[Pat Coleman]

Sorry, I'm getting caught up, but are we comparing a DE's stats to a DT's stats?

Yes, someone is, anyway.

He was voted defensive lineman of the year in the CCC.

[BigKat]

Fellas, they have a middle of the pack guy who punted in 6 games as the all region punter. And no, it wasn't our flopper out of Ephtown;)  A few other outrageous choices as well. This isn't the mensa crew deciding these things.

Looks like another ex D3 coach is getting the Cornell job. Good to see these guys getting chances at the next level.

[Pat Coleman]

Fellas, they have a middle of the pack guy who punted in 6 games as the all region punter. And no, it wasn't our flopper out of Ephtown;) 

If he's that terrible, why is he the NESCAC's first team punter?

[BigKat]

Not terrible; middle of the pack.

I'm guessing that school needed kids recognized with their limited spots do to their record.. Amherst kid ,for one, was much more deserving regionally if you look at number of punts/avg etc

[Pat Coleman]

Since Amherst's punter was not named first- or second-team all-conference, he wasn't eligible to even be nominated for All-Region.

Despite our efforts, as well, sometimes not all eligible players get nominated either. Perhaps if you're missing someone you expect to see, that's part of the issue.

[Jonny Utah]

The problem here is probably more than half of the Amherst College football team isn't getting into Amherst if they aren't playing football (or had parents who attended which could also change now). 

So the argument kind of has to start there.  Amherst is an "academic school" but the football roster doesn't really reflect the admissions standards of the school as a whole. Now the MIT football team could fit in well with your argument.  I don't think they mind playing in a conference that allows them to go to the playoffs. 

Also you know there are probably more Nescac/Ivy league grad public school teachers making the same $ as your phys ed teacher?  Not sure where you are getting the PE angle from. 

So the bottom line is you have to ask yourself how much do the colleges want to bend their admissions and financial aid.  Stanford, Vanderbilt and Boston College all decided to bend the admissions a lot and give out 75+ free rides a year.  The Ivy league schools decided to bend the admissions and financial aid a little, but not to the extend the other schools did.  Then you have Amherst and Williams who also bend the admissions and financial aid, but want to stay small.  Then you have MIT who doesn't bend at either end.

Oh goodness, don't start that touchy subject again.

I tried to understand the academic standards of the NESCAC and one insightful poster referred to it as "dark arts", joking to the mystery of it.

The consensus was that each school has its own differing academic standards so there is not a "level playing field", in regards to minimum standards established.  And that seems to set off one particular fanbase in defense.

So I try to steer clear of that.

What I can share, from the Amherst perspective are anecdotal facts.  I know a player who scored a 1480 on the SAT and he was told to leave it off???  I know the .500 might be north of that but I can promise you there are plenty of "front door" students with less.

But I do agree that there is a perception that athletes get in with less and that only makes sense to be competitive in sports.  It seems like a struggle at Amherst but let's hope this new President is more supportive of FB than the previous loon.  So far, he seems cool and I also think it fair to mention that very few Seniors and Super Seniors started this year.

MIT is the ONLY D3 school that has such ridiculous academic standards.  My son supposedly had an "offer" there but I trusted that as far as you could throw it.  And they ONLY have spring applications.  Amherst in the fall was as "sure" as it could get.

But look at all the rankings of academics for D3 FB and MIT is the ONLY one whose FB Players may be in line with the "Front Doors" and that's because they mostly cap out at 1600.



In fairness to Johns Hopkins, their coach told my son he needed a 1500 for them to talk to him.  He had that but JH seemed as miserable as MIT so I tried not to foster it.  That and JH does not play in a closed league like the NESCAC.

Not about the money ...

... I respect any and all in what they do in life, as long as they don't take my tax dollars doing it.  Any kid who has a passion to teach children is AWESOME!

My PE Jab was about an easy program of study.  I do not know of ANY NESCAC school offering a degree plan like this:

https://www.northcentralcollege.edu/program/exercise-science

But I take it back, if so.  I was an education major at a directional state school.  My 4 year Special Education Degree was a LOT easier than the undergrad BA prereqs and degree plan for the MBA I got from the very same school 10 years later, after changing my career from teaching.

"So the bottom line is you have to ask yourself how much do the colleges want to bend their admissions and financial aid."

<I agree wholeheartedly with you on this but got beat to hell for even suggesting that this could impact the results on the field as much as the hard work in the weight room and the genius of the Head Coach.  So please excuse me for not wanting to discuss further at this time.>

I honestly think Stanford and Notre Dame are the last of the D1s who don't take mirror foggers for FB.

Vanderbilt offered a kid at my son's HS and he was lazy and a poor student, from a non FB perspective.  But he could meet prop 48 standards (if still called that) so they were happy to offer him.

Don't know anything about BC but I'll trust you.

Take care and the Fenway idea came from the Ithaca vs. Cortland game in Yankee Stadium.  That's awesome.

Ithaca was interested in my son but Amherst was a better fit.  He has loved it in his years there!

All good stuff and I think we are on the same page.  A few things though...

If you took a list of the "lowest" ranked schools, how do you think their football teams are doing?  Just look at New England and you will see they aren't that great.  Look nationally and it isn't much different.  Nescac schools also have the advantage of being national schools.  They can recruit all over the country.  NCC and UWW cannot (and don't).  Is there enough talent in the ISL and NJ Catholic/Prep leagues to make Williams College a national champion in football?  I bet it could be close with the right support. 

Like you said the "dark arts" is something we all know about.  But that also means the acceptance rates don't really mean anything because those rates aren't impacted by football recruits and their early admissions "promises/denials". 

And MIT does fine in d3 competitiveness because they can recruit nationally.  Can they beat NCC this year?  No, but neither can Trinity (CT or TX), Williams, Ithaca, or Dean. 

I still don't think PE majors are easy ones.  I'm not a big math/science guy though and would rather read and discuss nonsense with my cozy liberal arts professor about Marxist movements in 1946 India that take an anatomy class. 

[NESCACFball24/7]

Have heard from a very reliable source within the Holy Cross administration that they are looking to move on a new head coach soon and two Nescac guys are on the list to get calls. Wouldnt give names but have to assume it is either Devanney, DiCenzo or Civetti. Devanney I understand but the other two would be interesting hires. I do know for a fact that Civetti received a call about he Columbia job but the conversation didn't go beyond that call.

[Jonny Utah]

Not terrible; middle of the pack.

I'm guessing that school needed kids recognized with their limited spots do to their record.. Amherst kid ,for one, was much more deserving regionally if you look at number of punts/avg etc

The Nescac SIDs are supposed to forward information on these players.  Are they the mesna crew guys? 

[jmcozenlaw]

The problem here is probably more than half of the Amherst College football team isn't getting into Amherst if they aren't playing football (or had parents who attended which could also change now). 

So the argument kind of has to start there.  Amherst is an "academic school" but the football roster doesn't really reflect the admissions standards of the school as a whole. Now the MIT football team could fit in well with your argument.  I don't think they mind playing in a conference that allows them to go to the playoffs. 

Also you know there are probably more Nescac/Ivy league grad public school teachers making the same $ as your phys ed teacher?  Not sure where you are getting the PE angle from. 

So the bottom line is you have to ask yourself how much do the colleges want to bend their admissions and financial aid.  Stanford, Vanderbilt and Boston College all decided to bend the admissions a lot and give out 75+ free rides a year.  The Ivy league schools decided to bend the admissions and financial aid a little, but not to the extend the other schools did.  Then you have Amherst and Williams who also bend the admissions and financial aid, but want to stay small.  Then you have MIT who doesn't bend at either end.

For what it's worth, let me add this wasted time for the good of the group.  It's something I looked up in the past but never shared.  But given your post, I figured I might as well put it out here in case anyone wants to research it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

https://interculturalinsights.com/nescac-schools-ranked-by-acceptance-rate/

#1: Connecticut College: Acceptance rate- 41%
Average SAT range: 1333-1476
Average ACT range: 20-33

#2: Trinity College: Acceptance rate- 38%
Average SAT range: 1333-1480
Average ACT range: 29-33

#3: Wesleyan University: Acceptance rate- 19%
Average SAT range: 1300-1510
Average ACT range: 31-35

#4: Bates College: Acceptance rate- 17%
Average SAT range: 1260-1470
Average ACT range: 30-34

#5: Middlebury College: Acceptance rate- 13%
Average SAT range: 1380-1530
Average ACT range: 32-34

#6: Hamilton College: Acceptance rate- 11.8%
Average SAT range: 1410-1550
Average ACT range: 33-35

#7: Colby College: Acceptance rate- 9%
Average SAT range: 1400-1530
Average ACT range: 32-35

#8: Tufts University: Acceptance rate- 9%
Average SAT range: 1440-1550
Average ACT range: 33-35

#9: Bowdoin College: Acceptance rate- 9%
Average SAT range: 1320-1520
Average ACT range: 30-34

#10: Amherst College: Acceptance rate- 9%
Average SAT range: 1440-1570
Average ACT range: 32-35

#11: Williams College: Acceptance rate- 9%
Average SAT range: 1460-1560
Average ACT range: 33-35

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https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges

#1  Williams College
#2  Amherst College
#9  Bowdoin College
#11  Middlebury College
#11  Wesleyan University
#16  Hamilton College
#24  Bates College
#25  Colby College
#39  Trinity College
#46  Connecticut College
* Tufts is not ranked with Liberal Arts Colleges

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
https://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/

10. Williams College
11. Amherst College
42. Wesleyan University
44. Bowdoin College
53. Middlebury College
55. Tufts University
64. Hamilton College
80. Trinity College (CT)
89. Colby College
127. Bates College

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
https://www.wsj.com/rankings/college-rankings/best-colleges-2024

8  Amherst College
31  Williams College
50  Colby College
73  Wesleyan University
88  Hamilton College
89  Bowdoin College
131  Middlebury College
191  Trinity College
225  Connecticut College
287  Tufts University

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/rankings/united-states/2019#!/length/-1/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats

22  Amherst College
23  Williams College
32  Tufts University
37  Middlebury College
44  Bowdoin College
46  Wesleyan University
67  Hamilton College
71  Colby College
77  Bates College
92  Connecticut College
111  Trinity College

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

https://www.reachhighscholars.org/college_endowments.html

         Endowment/Student ($)
               Endowment ($000)
                     # of Students
                                                        
Williams      2,085,448   4,170,895   2,000
Amherst         1,916,321   3,775,153   1,970
Bowdoin         1,530,460   2,719,628   1,777
Hamilton      699,645      1,399,289   2,000
Colby         598,923      1,257,738   2,100
Wesleyan      491,453      1,572,651   3,200
Middlebury      464,923      1,511,001   3,250
Trinity College      361,386      783,123      2,167
Connecticut College   237,590      434,553      1,829
Bates         233,008      466,016      2,000
Tufts         222,807      2,646,506   11,878

..................and let's hope that the NESCAC genius has rubbed off on each El Presidente, in a way that it didn't with their non-NESCAC brethren at Harvard, M.I.T and Penn. Can you say foot in mouth (my acquaintances, Leon Cooperman and Bill Ackman, are soooooooo spot on)!! Very glad to be on the back nine in life and looking at one of the many quickly growing ex-pat communities, far enough away to be safe when the "stuff" hits the fan!! Alex, I'll take clean drinking water for $200 and edible food sources (ag schools.......another scourge) for $400 please........over acceptance rates and endowments!!

[SpringSt7]

Have heard from a very reliable source within the Holy Cross administration that they are looking to move on a new head coach soon and two Nescac guys are on the list to get calls. Wouldnt give names but have to assume it is either Devanney, DiCenzo or Civetti. Devanney I understand but the other two would be interesting hires. I do know for a fact that Civetti received a call about he Columbia job but the conversation didn't go beyond that call.

This makes it sound like the Holy Cross coach got fired but regardless, Devanney is the only guy that would seem to have the pedigree/resume to get the job. They've won 5 PL titles in 6 years and are a top 3 Patriot League school/athletic program and definitely the best one to have both football and basketball. There will be D1 coordinators that apply for that job.

[The Mole]

here we go....

https://jmusportsnews.com/2023/12/07/report-jmu-expected-to-hire-bob-chesney-as-head-football-coach/

https://cornellbigred.com/news/2023/12/7/dan-swanstrom-named-28th-head-coach-of-cornell-football.aspx

[SpringSt7]

They probably don't care but Union and Ithaca's coaches getting Ivy jobs over any NESCAC HCs could be something that rankles some feathers amongst the NESCAC presidents and other decision makers - if they spend so much time modeling themselves after the Ivy League, why don't the Ivy League ADs want their coaches?

Probably not though.