FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[The Ghost of John Wesley]

The entire nescac, a group of small schools with some of the most strict academic standards, incredibly high tuition costs, smaller coaching staffs, shorter preseasons and smaller rosters would get beat by the national champion?! Man, that's going to be a tough argument to get the board to agree with...

There have been many on this board in the past that claimed the NESCAC plays a "far superior brand of football" and would dominate the rest of D3.

When were these statements made? Can you point us to the page number(s) where people made this claim? I don't remember it, but admittedly I haven't been following this board closely since 2005. You said "many" have made this claim, so they should be relatively easy to find.

Let's be honest, that's a ridiculous statement for anyone to make. I know a lot of NESCAC fans across a spectrum of eras and schools, but I've ever met one delusional enough to believe the NESCAC could dominate with Mt. Union, Wisconsin-Whitewater, St. John's, North Central, etc. That is ludicrous.

I've heard people say "I would have loved to see the 2004 Trinity team in the playoffs, I bet they could have showed well". But that's a far cry from "the NESCAC plays a 'far superior brand of football' and would dominate the rest of D3." I've never in my years heard that.

Are we sure that's a real quote, or are you getting yourself worked up over a made-up or heavily editorialized quote?

[The Ghost of John Wesley]

UfanBill,
   Please provide us with one or two examples of the "many on this board in the past that claimed the NESCAC plays a 'far superior brand of football' and would dominate the rest of D3."  I have followed the NESCAC board for about three years and do not recall any such posts. I recall some saying on a very good year a NESCAC champion may get a couple games deep in the NCAA playoffs, and maybe someone wrote an exceptional NESCAC champion could possibly get to a quarter final game but that is about the extent of what I recall.  Some have written that the NESCAC conference is made up of many top tier colleges, and that is true.  The list you provided is also made up of many top tier colleges, but they are not all in the same conference.   

https://www.niche.com/colleges/amherst-college/
7%
 https://www.niche.com/colleges/williams-college/
8%
https://www.niche.com/colleges/colby-college/
8%
https://www.niche.com/colleges/bowdoin-college/
9%
https://www.niche.com/colleges/tufts-university/
10%
https://www.niche.com/colleges/hamilton-college/
12%
https://www.niche.com/colleges/middlebury-college/
13%
https://www.niche.com/colleges/wesleyan-university/
14%
https://www.niche.com/colleges/bates-college/
14%
https://www.niche.com/colleges/trinity-college-connecticut/
36%

https://www.niche.com/colleges/massachusetts-institute-of-technology/
4%
https://www.niche.com/colleges/johns-hopkins-university/
7%
https://www.niche.com/colleges/carnegie-mellon-university/
11%
https://www.niche.com/colleges/case-western-reserve-university/
27%
https://www.niche.com/colleges/university-of-rochester/
39%
https://www.niche.com/colleges/union-college-new-york/
47%
https://www.niche.com/colleges/rensselaer-polytechnic-institute/
65%

There have been many on this board in the past that claimed the NESCAC plays a "far superior brand of football" and would dominate the rest of D3

I have followed this board for many years and don't recall many (if any) claiming the NESCAC plays a superior brand of football and would dominate the rest of D3. Thats an exaggeration with some embellishment.

I've heard all the discussions here over the years and I will say some have opined that Trinity or the top couple of the NESCAC programs, in a given year, could compete with the top D3 teams in NORTHEAST conferences.

Even the most delusional NESCAC pundits have not maintained that any NESCAC program could compete with the Mount Unions, Wisc Whitewater and the other D3 elites.

No doubt the '23 Cortland team is likely the best D3 program to emerge from the Northeast in quite a while.

After a very impressive showing against North Central last fall let's see if they can hang perennially with the true D3 powerhouses.

Great minds and all. You two beat me by a couple minutes.

[lumbercat]

Another note on Cortland.
 
Of the 100+ players in their D3 championship program maybe a half dozen players are from outside NY state.

Makes me think back a few months where there was a poster here who said that NY state is not a fertile recruiting ground for the NESCAC because NY does not have as many D1 players as NJ, Pa etc.

That maybe so but the Empire State is certainly a great recruiting venue for D3 and the NESCAC. The NESCAC does not recruit D1 Power 5 guys.

Hamilton has had some recruiting  success in NY and western NY but always thought they could do better as the only NESACAC school situated all by themselves in the Western Siberian region.

[UfanBill]

Look Ground and Pound. I believe I've been on these boards longer than you, though it doesn't matter. I'm a consistent participant on the Liberty League board but try to read Region 1 too because LL teams schedule Region 1 teams regularly. Since the NESCAC board is by far the most active in Region 1 (at least until the MAC was placed there) I have followed your board for years and occasionally add a comment. Your challenge was accepted to a point. Doing a search I uncovered this so far...Post #8633..From Hamgrand 8/29/15..."Last night I went to see RPI scrimmage Hudson Valley CC.  My nephew is a freshman DB for RPI.  They have been practicing since 8/15.  I might be bias, but I was not overly impressed with the talent when compared to what I have seen in the NESCAC.  The QB play, skills play and punting was much less than impressive and I could not tell any difference in the size of the linemen.  RPI did have a pretty impressive freshman kicker (and their recently graduated kicker is in the NFL) and the most impressive thing was the 100+ players on each sideline! But overall, I felt that the talent in the NESCAC was generally above what I saw on the field last night."

I'll admit he said overall and he was talking about an RPI team that finished 9-2 that year and I can tell you they go easy on JUCO neighbor HVCC. The starters probably only played a series or two.

If I can figure a way to search back for other posts to illustrate my point I will, but not now. I said what I said and I'm rather glad it stirred you guys up.      
 I see this is my 1000th post !!!

[GroundandPound]

"Many on this board in the past that claimed the NESCAC plays a 'far superior brand of football' and would dominate the rest of D3."

In the context of referring to one LL team playing in a pre-season scrimmage nine years ago:

"But overall, I felt that the talent in the NESCAC was generally above what I saw on the field last night."

You may want to amend your assertion to "one person on this board nine years ago thought the NESCAC talent was generally above RPI's based on a pre-season scrimmage."  I suspect he was probably wrong, or as you suggested was not seeing much of the 1st teamers on the field, but he sure wasn't claiming the NESCAC would "dominate the rest of D3."   

As for the LL this year RPI opens at home with Wisconsin-LaCrosse in a Thurs night game.  I plan on attending to see some top tier D3 football and hoping RPI can do what Endicott did last year v. D3 power house Hardin Simmons.

[RedAndBlack]

1000 posts and youre out here on a soap box saying that we believe the nescac is the better brand of football when preseason is essentially 8 practices, smaller rosters, smaller coaching staffs and outside of maybe 9 other schools (out of 250+) has the toughest admissions and academic load... excluding Trinity obviously   

[Scoops]

Guys, the NESCAC is really no better than any conference at this level. The league has really good academics, but the product on the field is on par with the rest of division III football. Can we move on from this yearly conversation now?

I watched some tape on the incoming classes and the NESCAC is in good hands with the 2028 group. Really impressive work by all of the staffs across the conference. Here's my picks for each teams most interesting incoming athlete.

Amherst: DB Jackson Cherry
Bates: LB Carmel Crunk (Name of the Year for sure!)
Bowdoin: RB Nelson Dorsey
Colby: QB Griffin Marshall
Hamilton: RB Alistair Orr
Middlebury: WR Isaac Knight
Trinity: WR Marshall Rice
Tufts: WR Keller Rogers
Wesleyan: RB Matt Diaz
Williams: WR Zach Falls

I have Diaz, Marshall, Rogers, and Dorsey as my frontrunners for ROY based on the tape I found and the situation they're walking into.

[LochNescac]

Scoops, love the research!

Really good stuff, great to see the talent roll into the league!

But....honestly we'll have to wait to see most of these guys;  the games this season will be decided by the Sr & JR classes...freshman impact (imo) is negligible with very few exceptions...

Bigger tell may be who has JR's & Soph's that haven't seen meaningful playing time...that's what I'll be watching.

Thanks for your in depth look at the class of '28...seriously appreciate the picks & gonna check out the film!

[VoodooDoc]

John Wesley's Ghost is correct.  Teams like Mount Union, Wisconsin Whitewater, North Central etc. have rosters of 140 plus players. Wisconsin Whitewater is a state school with around 20,000 students.

[Pat Coleman]

John Wesley's Ghost is correct.  Teams like Mount Union, Wisconsin Whitewater, North Central etc. have rosters of 140 plus players. Wisconsin Whitewater is a state school with around 20,000 students.

Actually 8,000 full-time undergrads. And Whitewater had 108 players on its roster last year -- the WIAC still has a roster limit, I believe.

[GroundandPound]

https://nfldraftdiamonds.com/2024/06/2025-small-school-watch-list/?feed_id=36710

[VoodooDoc]

It would be difficult for the NESCAC to compete head on with some of the D-3 power houses given the caps on the number of players 75 or 82 or 84.  These schools have larger squads to have enough back up to play a 15 game schedule. (The regular season plus the playoffs.) The NESCAC has good players, but if it decides to compete on a more even footing with other D-3 schools by adding a 10th game against an out of conference opponent, and participating in the D-3 playoffs.  The squad caps will also need adjustment as well.  Who knows if such a day will ever come.  NESCAC teams do well in various D-3 playoffs.  It is a shame to see football treated as the unwanted child by NESCAC.  At least there is an opportunity for some spring practice which is so important to have a time to work on the skills needed for the various positions. 

[DagarmanSpartan]

Gang,

I'm a UAA alum (Case Western Reserve).

What is your opinion of THIS graphic?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GSTt1QlXEAAqg1F?format=jpg&name=large

Based on this, there appears to be a correlation between academic and athletic eliteness in d3 sports!

That said, UAA teams have made the d3 football playoffs, and even advanced, so I see no good reason why NESCAC football programs either couldn't or shouldn't do the same.

[Scoops]

Thanks! We will definitely have to wait on most of these guys, but I think that the ROY candidate guys can slot in pretty early given their individual team situations.

Matt Diaz gives Wesleyan a potential true #1 RB. They haven't had an effective tailback for the better part of the last decade. They've largely done a committee. I think that kid can be the #1 guy.

Griffin Marshall, as has been mentioned on the board, is likely the most talented QB to come through Waterville in some time. Colby has a couple of decent offensive pieces for him to work with as well. He should take the job there day 1.

Keller Rogers is a very interesting receiver for Tufts. He doesn't look very big, but he's undeniably fast on tape. With Lutz and Richardson gone, Berluti only has Moore as a proven option in the passing game and Moore is more of a chain mover than anything. Have to assume they find a way to work Rogers' speed into the mix.

Nelson Dorsey is more of a longshot ROY candidate from a talent standpoint, but he walks into the best situation. Eden graduated (I believe?), and the only other RB to carry the ball for them was more of a fullback/Tight End. Dorsey could be as good of an option as anyone else on the roster given the situation. Making him at least a potential candidate to win it.

Scoops, love the research!

Really good stuff, great to see the talent roll into the league!

But....honestly we'll have to wait to see most of these guys;  the games this season will be decided by the Sr & JR classes...freshman impact (imo) is negligible with very few exceptions...

Bigger tell may be who has JR's & Soph's that haven't seen meaningful playing time...that's what I'll be watching.

Thanks for your in depth look at the class of '28...seriously appreciate the picks & gonna check out the film!

[lumbercat]

Whoever recruited Griffin Marshall on the Colby staff deserves a promotion or a raise, Can't believe they landed the kid....kudos to Coach Davis who we suspect was the point guy there.