FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Nescacman]

I am not saying the transfer portal is the recruitment answer. One of the posters mentioned the fact that Amherst has been weak at the QB position for close to a decade. All I am saying if you can get a Qb or fill a position talent then you can go back to traditional recruiting. Amherst has a great of swing and misses in that arena as well. All I am saying is a place to start to find a QB at minimum.

According to our sources around the League, we've heard that the guys that the Lord Mammoths have at QB were all pretty heavily recruited with high expectations of success. Those same sources are surprised by their performance to-date. With that being said, we think the offensive issues in Central Mass go further than the QB position. Amherst does not have a single RB or Receiver ranked in the top 15 in the NESCAC in rushing or receiving. Also, Amherst has allowed 12 sacks (3rd most) and has only averaged 1.7 yards per carry so their offensive line isn't off the hook either. Seems like a total team effort to us.

[Charlie]

I am not saying QB is the answer but a start. I do think they have bigger issues in their program. I am curious from your sources why Amherst is not an attractive landing spot. I believe you will find what I stated before the luster of Amherst championship years is gone.

I think Mills had an inlux of recruits from his Championship years to the academic prowess of the school. I think no both have diminished. If you are a star recruit or transfer player would you rather play football and get a great education at Amherst.

Option B if talented enough go to Trinity or Middlebury for example have a chance at winning and getting a great education. I think this is a major problem.

[mhoncho123]

As a former NESCAC legend myself, its awesome to see a couple institutions still playing high level football. I am very glad my grandson introduced me to this messageboard. After watching the Middlebury v Amherst, I was pleasantly surprised over Middlebury's use of the fullback. After my film review, I believe the Middlebury v Trinity game will be competitive, but the Panthers will prevail.

- Honcho

[Nescacman]

As a former NESCAC legend myself, its awesome to see a couple institutions still playing high level football. I am very glad my grandson introduced me to this messageboard. After watching the Middlebury v Amherst, I was pleasantly surprised over Middlebury's use of the fullback. After my film review, I believe the Middlebury v Trinity game will be competitive, but the Panthers will prevail.

- Honcho

Welcome to the Board Honcho, the water is warm. We can always use another "legend"...

[lumbercat]

Middlebury's landed 2 QBs in the past 10-15 years who've been very successful, McCallum Foote (Brown) and Jared Lebowitz (UNLV?). Jeff Katz was a standout DE/OLB for Amherst 2009-2011 after transferring from Lafayette. I can't think of too many others who have transferred into the league and seen all-league type of success. Usually they're transferring for a reason.

I can only recall two examples of Trinity guys who transferred in and went on to earn All NESCAC accolades and both are from about two decades ago. Chris Balestrino who made first team OL in 2004 transferred from UNH. More notably, from 2004-'06 Gennaro Leo was a 3x All NESCAC selection (2x first team) at RB and was a transfer from Colgate.

Trin 9-o
Do you remember the Bantam transfer QB who was physically gifted and said to be big time transfer but just couldn't throw the ball with any accuracy- threw a bunch of pics and ended up riding the pine maybe 10 years ago or so, name escapes me.

[lumbercat]

Zander was able to get his shot because of Covid. He's a fine player, not trying to discredit him in any way and I admire his patience but without Covid glitch he never gets on the field.

[Gate 91]

Respectfully I am going to have to check you on that one Lumber. If you will recall correctly Fetter used his Covid eligibility to play a 5th year. Zebrowski would've been the starter last year if it wasn't due to Fetter staying on for another season.

[Nescacman]

Middlebury's landed 2 QBs in the past 10-15 years who've been very successful, McCallum Foote (Brown) and Jared Lebowitz (UNLV?). Jeff Katz was a standout DE/OLB for Amherst 2009-2011 after transferring from Lafayette. I can't think of too many others who have transferred into the league and seen all-league type of success. Usually they're transferring for a reason.

I can only recall two examples of Trinity guys who transferred in and went on to earn All NESCAC accolades and both are from about two decades ago. Chris Balestrino who made first team OL in 2004 transferred from UNH. More notably, from 2004-'06 Gennaro Leo was a 3x All NESCAC selection (2x first team) at RB and was a transfer from Colgate.

Trin 9-o
Do you remember the Bantam transfer QB who was physically gifted and said to be big time transfer but just couldn't throw the ball with any accuracy- threw a bunch of pics and ended up riding the pine maybe 10 years ago or so, name escapes me.

Lumber/Hs8-1...Sonny Puzzo or Jordan Vazzano?

[BigKat]

As a former NESCAC legend myself, its awesome to see a couple institutions still playing high level football. I am very glad my grandson introduced me to this messageboard. After watching the Middlebury v Amherst, I was pleasantly surprised over Middlebury's use of the fullback. After my film review, I believe the Middlebury v Trinity game will be competitive, but the Panthers will prevail.

- Honcho

'
 

Welcome to the Board Honcho, the water is warm. We can always use another "legend"...

Welcome Honcho, "nescac legend and high level football"...you'll fit right in to looneyville here amongst us 'Cacer faithful

would be great to see the Pants beat the Chickens this Saturday

[nescac1]

Nescacman, the Trinity QB in question can't be Puzzo because he was really good.  I do recall they had a highly touted transfer from UVA awhile back who never got a ton of reps, but that may have been in part due to a very crowded depth chart. 

Regarding Amherst recruiting, a few things.  First, it does seem like many of their current players were highly recruited by other NESCAC schools. If you look at the recruits' social media, they have plenty of guys on the roster who turned down multiple NESCAC schools with good programs, or even in some cases had D1 offers, and some of those guys barely seem to make an impact or even see the field, which is a bit odd.  There are a few players in particular I just assumed would be doing a lot more by now based on their profile / hype as recruits.  I suspect that their roster has more highly recruited players than at least half the league even now.  So I'm not sure what the issue is there.

Second, as has been noted here before, it's no coincidence that the golden era of Amherst football (2011-2015, which featured three undefeated seasons) overlapped 100 percent with the Kelton era at Williams.  Instead of (at best) splitting the best recruits in the Williams/Amherst pool (they always look at a LOT of the same dudes it seems), they were getting all of them for a six year stretch.  There is a big difference between getting say five stars per year and the ten at the very top of your recruit pool.  Plus, they were guaranteed an easy victory over their biggest rival.  And that was before Wesleyan and Tufts really started to up their games in football, as well.

I think that, combined with maybe some bad luck in how players performed vs. projection, plus the notorious crackdown on athletic recruiting at both Williams and Amherst especially relative to some schools which can take far bigger football classes from a much broader pool, is how you go from the best program in NESCAC over a five year stretch to one in the bottom third overall and with such a desultory style of play within a decade. And that's even after building a gorgeous new football complex!  And I do think there may be something to (as others have noted) the fact that even by NESCAC standards, Amherst was embraced wokeness as a core ethos perhaps more than anywhere, which may not be terribly appealing to certain athletic recruits especially in high profile men's sports where (other than soccer) Amherst has suffered relative to its previous very high standards over the past five years.   

I continue to be excited about the underclass talent at Williams, which I think is a lot more dynamic (especially at the skill positions) than the team has had since Raymond's first two groups of recruits.  The tough part for Williams is that the classes are simply small in numbers overall so there is never going to be the sort of depth some other programs have.  The Ephs are getting major contributions from underclassmen in every unit other than TB so far this year, so I do think the future is bright if they have good luck health-wise.

[Trin9-0]

Middlebury's landed 2 QBs in the past 10-15 years who've been very successful, McCallum Foote (Brown) and Jared Lebowitz (UNLV?). Jeff Katz was a standout DE/OLB for Amherst 2009-2011 after transferring from Lafayette. I can't think of too many others who have transferred into the league and seen all-league type of success. Usually they're transferring for a reason.

I can only recall two examples of Trinity guys who transferred in and went on to earn All NESCAC accolades and both are from about two decades ago. Chris Balestrino who made first team OL in 2004 transferred from UNH. More notably, from 2004-'06 Gennaro Leo was a 3x All NESCAC selection (2x first team) at RB and was a transfer from Colgate.

Trin 9-o
Do you remember the Bantam transfer QB who was physically gifted and said to be big time transfer but just couldn't throw the ball with any accuracy- threw a bunch of pics and ended up riding the pine maybe 10 years ago or so, name escapes me.

Lumber/Hs8-1...Sonny Puzzo or Jordan Vazzano?

Lumber, my guess is that you're thinking of Jordan Vazzano. Nescacman, Puzzo wasn't a transfer and is among the top QBs in Trinity history. Sonny was a four year starter who won NESCAC Rookie of the Year, was a 2x first team All NESCAC selection at QB and won two championships for the Bantams including an undefeated season in 2016.

Vazzano came to Trinity via URI and split time with Seamus Lambert over the 2018-'19 seasons. He played in 9 total games though the vast majority of his snaps came in 2018 when he led Trinity in total offense. Over his career he accounted for 19 total touchdowns and just 6 picks. Lumber, you may recall he won NESCAC Co-Offensive Player of the Week after throwing for 353 yards and five TDs in a win against Bates.

[Nescacman]

...as has been noted here before, it's no coincidence that the golden era of Amherst football (2011-2015, which featured three undefeated seasons) overlapped 100 percent with the Kelton era at Williams.  Instead of (at best) splitting the best recruits in the Williams/Amherst pool (they always look at a LOT of the same dudes it seems), they were getting all of them for a six year stretch.  There is a big difference between getting say five stars per year and the ten at the very top of your recruit pool.  Plus, they were guaranteed an easy victory over their biggest rival.  And that was before Wesleyan and Tufts really started to up their games in football, as well...

Yup.

[Trin9-0]

Nescacman, the Trinity QB in question can't be Puzzo because he was really good.  I do recall they had a highly touted transfer from UVA awhile back who never got a ton of reps, but that may have been in part due to a very crowded depth chart. 

Regarding Amherst recruiting, a few things.  First, it does seem like many of their current players were highly recruited by other NESCAC schools. If you look at the recruits' social media, they have plenty of recruits who turned down multiple NESCAC schools with good programs, or even in some cases had D1 offers, and some of those guys barely seem to make an impact or even see the field, which is a bit odd.  There are a few guys on the roster I just assumed would be doing a lot more by now. I suspect that their roster has more highly recruited players than at least half the league even now. 

Second, as has been noted here before, it's no coincidence that the golden era of Amherst football (2011-2015, which featured three undefeated seasons) overlapped 100 percent with the Kelton era at Williams.  Instead of (at best) splitting the best recruits in the Williams/Amherst pool (they always look at a LOT of the same dudes it seems), they were getting all of them for a six year stretch. Plus, they were guaranteed an easy victory over their biggest rival.  And that was before Wesleyan and Tufts really started to up their games in football, as well.

I think that, combined with maybe some bad luck in how players performed vs. projection, plus the notorious crackdown on athletic recruiting at both Williams and Amherst especially relative to some schools which can take far bigger football classes from a much broader pool, is how you go from the best program in NESCAC over a five year stretch to one in the bottom third overall and which such a desultory style of play within a decade. And that's even after building a gorgeous new football complex!  And I do think there may be something to (as others have noted) the fact that even by NESCAC standards, Amherst was embraced wokeness as a core ethos perhaps more than anywhere, which may not be terribly appealing to certain athletes. 

I continue to be excited about the underclass talent at Williams, which I think is a lot more dynamic (especially at the skill positions) than the team has had since Raymond's first two groups of recruits.  The tough part for Williams is that the classes are simply small in numbers overall so there is never going to be the sort of depth some other programs have.  The Ephs are getting major contributions from underclassmen in every unit other than TB so far this year, so I do think the future is bright if they have good luck health-wise.

nescac1, the UVA transfer you're thinking of was Billy Schweitzer. He came to Trinity way back in 2003 but NCAA rules at time prohibited him from playing until the 2004 season. A pair of sophomore quarterbacks, Josh Pitcher and Erik Paisley (who ended up quitting), had just quarterbacked the Bantams to an undefeated season the previous year so Schweitzer and Pitcher split reps for the next two seasons (2004-'05). They both performed well, although Pitcher was the primary starter and he still holds several Trinity records including an absurd completion percentage of 79.6% in his senior season when he also set a record by averaging 12.5 yards per pass attempt. Trinity went undefeated both years.

You're spot on, as usual, with Amherst's run of dominance coinciding with Kelton running Williams into the toilet. I recall Devanney saying at the time that they actually hoped Williams would get better so that Amherst would stop getting all their recruits.

[Gate 91]

This entire debate begs the provocative question of whether or not the quality of NESCAC football has decreased since this new transfer portal era. The best players in the league are now often times leaving to go play D1 ball, Lutz and Tomlinson being prominent examples. Thoughts?

[Bantam4life]

This entire debate begs the provocative question of whether or not the quality of NESCAC football has decreased since this new transfer portal era. The best players in the league are now often times leaving to go play D1 ball, Lutz and Tomlinson being prominent examples. Thoughts?

Gate 91- Pleasure to hear from you and hope all is well. I think this is a question we won't really be able to answer until the Covid era players are done. Almost all of these guys making the jump have already received their degrees. I think if it gets to a point where guys are abandoning say a Williams degree to make the jump to the CAA or Patriot then we can have the conversation of league-wide talent going down and problems with the Portal.