FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[lumbercat]

Frank-
It wasn't the Rose Bowl but I know that an undefeated Bates team went to the Glass Bowl in Toledo in 1947 to face the Toledo Rockets. Bates lost bv a score of 21-14 or something like that. I beleive the "Glass Bowl" was the newly built stadium on the Toledo campus which was the host venue for the game.
Didn't expect you to remember that one Frank but thought there would have been another NESCAC team that would have gone to a bowl since.

[frank uible]

Neither ESPN College Football Encyclopedia nor NCAA Official Records Book carry any record of a Glass Bowl bowl game conducted at any time, despite both sources containing extensive bowl game records. What apparently occurred was that Toledo designated its last game of the season (whether the opponents were scheduled in advance of the season or toward the end of the season is an open question) the "Glass Bowl" in each of the years 1946-49 and played them in the stadium owned by the University of Toledo and then (as it is today) called the "Glass Bowl". Bates was the 1946 (December 7) opponent, and New Hampshire, Oklahoma City and Cincinnati were the 1947 (Decenber 6), 1948 (December 4) and 1949 (December 3) opponents, respectively. Toledo won each of these games except for the one against Cincinnati. In one of those years Toledo had a losing record, notwithstanding its winning of that year's Glass Bowl game.

[quicksilver]

. . .
The rumor that Tufts with their 4,000+ enrollment will leave the NESCAC for the UAA (U Chicago, Case Western, Carnegie Mellon, Rochester) still prevails in the Greater Boston (Medford) area.

Makes no sense to me but my connections at Tufts insist that Tufts as a larger institution is a "University" with a broader (not better) academic focus than the smaller NESACAC schools. The UAA includes some very impressive schools with divergence in many other areas beyond many of the NESCAC colleges.

. .  .

A move to the UAA by Tufts would make no sense for football as only 5 UAA schools currently play football, which means that the UAA has to glom onto another conference to get anything like conference play. This coming year, Case Western and Carnegie Mellon will be affiliate members of something called the Presidents Athletic Conference (PAC), which includes schools like Washington & Jefferson, Geneva, Grove City, etc.
Go here and you'll find more detail on the PAC and the new affiliation arrangements. The other three UAA schools with football programs are UChicago, Rochester, and Washington University . .

Also Tufts would have to give up hockey (or play an independent schedule, which is very hard to do) and lacrosse since UAA does not sponsor either sport.

[frank uible]

Isn't Chicago also a football playing member of the UAA? If it is, would not the addition of Tufts to the UAA give it six football playing members (Tufts, Chicago, CWRU, CMU, Rochester, WashU) and consequently an automatic spot in the D3 football playoffs?

[Shoreman]

U Chicago and Wash U are football only members of the newly formed Southern Athletic Association (SAA). Members include Centre College (KY). University of the South (Sewanee, TN), Millsaps College (MS), Birmingham Southern (AL), Rhodes College, (TN), Hendrix College (AR), Berry College (GA). All of the schools are excellent academic institutions (although not quite at  NESCAC level).

If Tufts were to join at as an affiliate member it would be eligible for an NCAA bid. Certainly it would boost Tufts travel budget but would allow them to play a national schedule which has its benefits.

[banfan]

Can someone give me the reason Tufts would consider switching to a midwest conference?

It is nice for chatting, but it is difficult to conceive of the reasoning behind it.  The fact that Case and Tufts look alike means very little.  I have no idea what the sources are but this may be a rumor based on a rumor.  By the way, Case plays a scrimmage plus 10 regular season games.  Then they hope they are playing in the D3 NCAA playoffs.  That sure would be a huge jump for Tufts.  And who would Tufts play to fill out their schedule?  Pretty sure it won't be a NESCAC school.

[Jonny Utah]

Can someone give me the reason Tufts would consider switching to a midwest conference?

It is nice for chatting, but it is difficult to conceive of the reasoning behind it.  The fact that Case and Tufts look alike means very little.  I have no idea what the sources are but this may be a rumor based on a rumor.  By the way, Case plays a scrimmage plus 10 regular season games.  Then they hope they are playing in the D3 NCAA playoffs.  That sure would be a huge jump for Tufts.  And who would Tufts play to fill out their schedule?  Pretty sure it won't be a NESCAC school.

Tufts isn't going anywhere, I have a bunch of friends who work over there and they have never heard of anything like what is being discussed here.

[frank uible]

Tufts' dissatisfaction with its recent football performance is certainly understandable, but is Tufts dissatisfied with irs membership in NESCAC, and if so why? Tufts doesn't quite fit the institutional footprint of the other NESCAC colleges, but so what?

[quicksilver]

Isn't Chicago also a football playing member of the UAA? If it is, would not the addition of Tufts to the UAA give it six football playing members (Tufts, Chicago, CWRU, CMU, Rochester, WashU) and consequently an automatic spot in the D3 football playoffs?

Correct, Frank, regarding UChicago. I fixed my post regarding the UAA's football members. Interestingly, UChicago begins its football season on Sept 1 and plays 10 games. I doubt that any one would dispute the academic bona fides of UChicago!!! NESCAC's excuses for not starting the season a week early and playing a full league schedule are a tad on the lame side.

[82slice]

Agree. If school like Chicago and Washington U in St. Louis for that matter, can do it and retain their academic standards and reputation, it's difficult to understand why Nescac leadership does not believe its doable.

[frank uible]

It  is not solely or primarily about the simple question of whether or not academic reputations are sullied. If it were, then places like Caltech, Swarthmore, Haverford and Emory might follow the majority or, alternatively, the majority would follow them. It is something else - something which the NESCAC administrations believe, and they are not explaining their posture. The rest of us can only speculate if we like.

[Jonny Utah]

Agree. If school like Chicago and Washington U in St. Louis for that matter, can do it and retain their academic standards and reputation, it's difficult to understand why Nescac leadership does not believe its doable.

I don't think the nescac leadership thinks starting early is not possible, its just that everyone has agreed to start and finish at the same times.

[fulbakdad]

It's all kind of funny.  My son plays for a team in the Midwest Conferance.  They are in the middle.  They play a full 10 game schedule, but are not allowed to play a scrimmage.  I was told because of academic reasons also.  They are then able to compete in the NCAA's.

Just play the full season and go on the the NCAA's!

I will add, that after watching many Northeast teams on recruiting trips (including a couple NESCAC games) there is a different level being played......

I think of the teams we watched, Hobart, Springfield, and Ithaca were up there, but many others would not be able to compete.  And we watched Willams, Amherst, Trinity, and Tufts.  They would have a very tough time outside of the NESCAC in my opinion......

[frank uible]

I'll take the bait. Over the last eleven seasons I have observed the Williams JV (comprised of varsity number 3 or 4 backups) annually play (usually or possibly always under scrimmage conditions) JV teams from out-of-conference colleges (Springfield, RPI, Union, Western New England, Dartmouth, perhaps others). The Williams JV in all cases has at least held its own and in a clear majority has prevailed. While none of these opponents with the possible exception of Dartmouth is of a Mount Union football quality (neither is any member of the Midwest Conference), these outcomes are indicative of how the Williams varsity might fare against respectable out-of-conference varsity opponents.

[mattvsmith]

May the Rev speak about the elephant in the living room? NESCAC presidents and faculty hate football. It is too male. Too traditional. Too everything that cultural Marxists hate.

They could recruit top quality student athletes and have programs worthy of post-season. They just don't want to.

Many years ago, Hobart--which sucks in comparison to NESCAC schools--had the same attitude problem. Professors and administrators were overtly anti-football, but they were hugely pro-women's sports. (To be fair, William Smith athletics has historically accomplished more than Hobart athletics, with the exception of lacrosse.)

No matter, everything about academic standards blah blah blah is bull. Hobart has a better football team than ever and they have never had such good students. The idea of athletic prowess and academic success being mutually exclusive is leftist academia bulls4it.

Ok, you may now tell me I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.