FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[pumkinattack]

I think we might be the only one.  Maybe Hartwick or SLU for soccer/hockey? 

[frank uible]

I believe that Middlebury, Williams, Colby and Bates (all d3 colleges) compete in d1 skiing on a non-scholarship basis.

[iamhuge]

Several comments on the topic.  First, Rochester is in the UAA now....at least in basketball.. so joining the 4 other schools in football is confusing me.
Second, Johns Hopkins does play a questionable level of football, IMHO.  Historically, the players on the football team  used to play to keep in shape for their Div. 1 lacrosse team.  Today, the lacrosse player tend to keep in shape by other means and are quicker, etc. than players that play Div. 3 football.  I have seen a number of the games in the league that Hopkins play in and the level of play compared with the NESCAC is the same.

I have seen the Centennial Conference play and the NESCAC play...there is a difference.

[fulbakdad]

I have seen the NESCAC play and the Midwest Conferance play and there is a differance there too.

I would also say the limited LL and Empire 8 I saw also showed a difference.....

Some in the NEFC and the NESAC appeared closer to me.

[amh63]

Ah yes.....it is hard to debate when there always exist "the eye of the beholder".  It is always good to have diverse opinions among knowledgeable posters.
However this discussion has educated me a bit. I have learned that many of the stronger leagues allow 100 plus players.  Interesting in that in the Ivy League never approach that many players in general and have a much lower traveling squad/suited players during games.  It should be pointed out that Tufts rarely reached rosters of 90 in the years prior to the present conference limit of 75 players....to the best of my knowledge.  It is also interesting that the U. of Rochester decided to play in the LL.  Travel costs may have been a factor in that decision.
Historians and Union College supporters.....what were the size of rosters when Union played in "CAC" or the schools in the present conference.  What is the roster size today?  Roster size often equates to talent available and overall level of play.
I should just wait for the start of Fall as we now enter Summer.  Cannot think about football when temps are reaching 95 plus in MD.

[pumkinattack]

Seems to be a little confusion about UofR.  Rochester's dual conference membership since at least 1996 (my first year at Hobart).  The UCAA was the predecessor conference for the LL and it was Union, RPI, SLU, UofR & Hobart.  I want to say the UAA came about in 94, but Pat or someone else would know better.  I know UofR also participates in baseball and gold (know they're in the other conference for BB, not sure about other sports) in the LL, so it's not like they just chose FB a couple of years ago after being a part of the UAA for a long time.  In fact Hobart and Rochester have played 104 times dating back to 1892, so I'm pretty certain they aren't a part of the LL for FB travel purposes (might be a nice bonus, but not the driver).  The real core of the LL are those five schools and the others come and go to fill AQ needs, but at least we've got five solid in the community (and I understand IC tried to get in very recently from the E8).  I don't consider Springfield, Coast Guard (who used to be in), Merchant Marine or WPI core members of the conference, but perhaps guys who played in post LL affiliation would consider WPI and MMA core members a this point.   

[Pat Coleman]

It's a couple years earlier than 1994 but it's not a big deal.

For a while, there were other schools in the UAA that had dual membership. Johns Hopkins played a half round-robin in the UAA in basketball and maintained its Centennial Conference membership, while Case Western Reserve did the same with the UAA and the NCAC. Case eventually settled in the NCAC for all of its sports and Johns Hopkins in the Centennial. Not sure how that affected football as it was before we started doing D3football.com.

Rochester plays football and baseball in the LL because they have an automatic bid while the UAA doesn't. There might be other sports where this is also true but I don't follow all of them.

[quicksilver]

UAA is a very limited conference. As we have discussed, it is not truly a football conference as its football-playing members seem to be affiliated with other conference for football purposes. Further, if you look at the standings compiled by UAA, you will that the full complement of UAA member schools participate only in basketball and soccer.  Other sports like volleyball and baseball/softball have high levels of participation but it looks like at least 2 schools do not participate in both of those sports. There is no sign of ice or field hockey or lacrosse, all of which are important sports for NESCAC members like Tufts. So as a conference, the UAA is much more limited than the NESCAC, which has all teams playing sports like volleyball, lacrosse, and field hockey and all but one or two playing ice hockey (Bates is the hold out for women and men's hockey; Tufts does not sponsor women's hockey) and football (Conn College is the only member without a football team).

[lumbercat]

The following quote is a passage from a statement that has been released from incoming Bates president Ava Clayton Spencer regarding her position on Athletics. Her arrival is being viewed as a positive for Bates Football and the Bates Athletic Department in general.

"I am simple-minded. My view is that in Athletics, as in everything else, it's not worth doing unless you do it wth the same commitment to rigor and excellence that you apply in other fields."

This is a simple quote but is a breath of fresh air when contrasted with the positions of her predecessor who looked to downgrade varsity athletics or remove them all together. The outgoing President was not at all supportive of Athletics during her tenure and was essentially an impediment to Athletic growth so this change has the Bates Athletic community hopeful of positive change and commitment going forward. The new Pres is expected to be highly supportive of Athletics.

While we all know that change is not the norm in the NESCAC who knows how changes of Presidents at Bates and other school(s) within the NESCAC may impact future direction.




.

[mattvsmith]

The following quote is a passage from a statement that has been released from incoming Bates president Ava Clayton Spencer regarding her position on Athletics. Her arrival is being viewed as a positive for Bates Football and the Bates Athletic Department in general.

"I am simple-minded. My view is that in Athletics, as in everything else, it's not worth doing unless you do it wth the same commitment to rigor and excellence that you apply in other fields."

This is a simple quote but is a breath of fresh air when contrasted with the positions of her predecessor who looked to downgrade varsity athletics or remove them all together. The outgoing President was not at all supportive of Athletics during her tenure and was essentially an impediment to Athletic growth so this change has the Bates Athletic community hopeful of positive change and commitment going forward. The new Pres is expected to be highly supportive of Athletics.

While we all know that change is not the norm in the NESCAC who knows how changes of Presidents at Bates and other school(s) within the NESCAC may impact future direction.
.

Thank you for backing up my claim that NESCAC presidents are, or at least were, anti-sport. The same claim that got me karma-slammed. See, these are great schools that have the ability to pick up great student athletes if they wanted to. It looks like Bates has finally decided that they want to have an athletic department that matches the quality of the greater college. Will the rest of NESCAC torpedo this positive initiative and go the way of Carnegie-Mellon, or will they be reasonable and live up to their potential. Seriously, my alma mater, Hobart, is not half the school of the NESCAC, but we demonstrably improved both the football team and the academic quality of the school in the same period. I do not think this is a coincidence. Rather, it was a conscious effort to raise the quality of Hobart as a whole, and the part known as the football team. And let me tell you, if Hobart could do it way down at the bottom of our quartile, then the NESCAC schools can do it up at the top. Your presidents simply did not want to do it, because they think football is beneath them.

The Rev did not imagine the elephant in the living room. You may now gang-smite me, fairies.

[Jonny Utah]

The following quote is a passage from a statement that has been released from incoming Bates president Ava Clayton Spencer regarding her position on Athletics. Her arrival is being viewed as a positive for Bates Football and the Bates Athletic Department in general.

"I am simple-minded. My view is that in Athletics, as in everything else, it's not worth doing unless you do it wth the same commitment to rigor and excellence that you apply in other fields."

This is a simple quote but is a breath of fresh air when contrasted with the positions of her predecessor who looked to downgrade varsity athletics or remove them all together. The outgoing President was not at all supportive of Athletics during her tenure and was essentially an impediment to Athletic growth so this change has the Bates Athletic community hopeful of positive change and commitment going forward. The new Pres is expected to be highly supportive of Athletics.

While we all know that change is not the norm in the NESCAC who knows how changes of Presidents at Bates and other school(s) within the NESCAC may impact future direction.
.

Thank you for backing up my claim that NESCAC presidents are, or at least were, anti-sport. The same claim that got me karma-slammed. See, these are great schools that have the ability to pick up great student athletes if they wanted to. It looks like Bates has finally decided that they want to have an athletic department that matches the quality of the greater college. Will the rest of NESCAC torpedo this positive initiative and go the way of Carnegie-Mellon, or will they be reasonable and live up to their potential. Seriously, my alma mater, Hobart, is not half the school of the NESCAC, but we demonstrably improved both the football team and the academic quality of the school in the same period. I do not think this is a coincidence. Rather, it was a conscious effort to raise the quality of Hobart as a whole, and the part known as the football team. And let me tell you, if Hobart could do it way down at the bottom of our quartile, then the NESCAC schools can do it up at the top. Your presidents simply did not want to do it, because they think football is beneath them.

The Rev did not imagine the elephant in the living room. You may now gang-smite me, fairies.

Rev for the most part, the NESCAC schools have some of the best division 3 athletic programs in the country.  Most of their presidents are on board with making athletics a priority at the schools, and you can see that reflected in both the academic and athletic reputations of most of the nescac schools.  Just because the football programs don't compete nationally doesn't mean the presidents don't care about football or athletics.  You will find that most people involved with the football programs in the nescac (coaches, players, ADs, alumni) also support the current football system, so it isn't like the presidents are holding football programs hostage against the will of football supporters.

Bates has basically been a crappy football program for a long time, and comments on here lead me to believe that the president there did not care about football (or possibly athletics), but I think that may be the exception to most nescac schools.

[banfan]

Small distinction to most, I am sure, BUT, it is not just the Presidents.  Sure they are the leaders and they call the shots but they get tremendous pressure from the Faculty as well.  I had the chance to talk recently with a retired long time head football coach from the nescac and this was his conclusion.  The number of kids who have disciplinary problems is also higher among football players that other sports.  Of course that is because their season is so G D short.  tic/lol

[amh63]

Lumbercat......thanks for the info.  It confirms the direction of Bates' athletic program that I have deduced.  When will the new prez be on board?  (I will try to check on the Bates' website).  Amherst's president in her remarks during Alumni weekend several weeks past, indicated that there was an upcoming meeting of conference presidents.  I wonder if Biddy Martin.....Amherst prez. will bring up the question of a 9 game football season.  I can only hope.  This is like guessing what the US Supreme Court will do on such important matters.....first to see if they will take the "case".  With a new member on board....who knows what will happen.
Back to my nap as MD/DC is hitting 100 plus with a heat index of 105!

[lumbercat]

4 Finalists for the Hamilton job:

Dick Maloney- U Chicago, Head Coach
Dave Murray- Alfred, Head Coach
J.B. Wells- Endicott, Head Coach
Keith Emery- Western New England, Head Coach

[Pat Coleman]

Hmm, if this list is true, it must pay really well. I wouldn't think this program is a step up for any of these four coaches.