FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[formerbant10]

Let's not forget that Trinity has by far the best looking student body in the NESCAC, hands down....I mean they have models walking around that campus, I've seen it.

Frank:  Once again, your wisdom is awesome.  

Ktroutvon:  We don't necessarily feel that Trinity would be at the same level as Linfield, Mt. Union and those schools...they're miles ahead of pretty much everyone, but give Trinity a few games against them and they'll find a way to make it very competitive if not win.  Trinity is a very tough team to prepare for, very balanced offensively this year and have tons of different looks to throw at teams.  3 different QB's, sometimes lining up w/o a QB...must drive opposing D-Coordinators nuts every week.  They've had 15 guys with receptions and consistently use 5 RB's.  Not to mention how skilled and deep their own Defense is.  It takes a lot to win the whole thing, I don't know if Trinity would do that anytime soon, but they could be at that level if given the chance and Priore sticks around.

As for Trinity's work ethic:  I work out in the same gym as football players from UPenn and Williams during the summer along with a few other college athletes, and Trinity's workout is very, very similar to UPenn's while Williams' was rather elementary in comparison.

Trin:  Couldn't agree with you more about being a proud Alum.

As for Trinity's recruiting:  If you were a high school athlete, why wouldn't you want to go to a school with a very attractive female population along with an outstanding social scene that can all be found right on your campus?  Not to mention a dedicated coaching staff and a program that wins.

[4u]

Please accept my advanced apology for lack of knowledge about the NESCAC.  That said, a few common denominators have lead me to your board on Bowdoin v. Trinity week.  I never thought Bowdoin would get my attention against one of the top teams in its league but it has.  Could someone (who may have seen both-- or, at least, one-- of the teams play) enlighten me as to whether or not this will even be a game?  I would have guessed that Bowdoin's early success was based on a favorable schedule and that this game would prove to be a discouraging reality check.  Then, I noticed that Trinity had a scare last week.  Is the pressure of "the streak" catching up with Trinity?  Or, did they simply have a poor performance?  Long story short, does Bowdoin have any chance here or will this be like the last few meetings between the schools?
4u

[formerbant10]

My guess is it will be closer than in past years, but not by much.  Trinity's mud bowl last weekend slowed everything down.  Neither team could do much offensively.  Trinity scored in the 1st quarter when the field was at its best condition (most likely, I wasn't there but pretty safe to assume).  Playing at Trin is no easy task.  With the weather looking good for the rest of the week, and the Bants playing at home, I don't see it being a very close game....but no games are won on Tuesday mornings while sitting at a computer.

[Trin9-0]

4u: The combined records of both Trinity and Bowdoin's opponents are both 6-10, so I don't think either team has had an easier schedule than the other. However, in 3 of Bowdoin's 4 wins the margin of victory has been a mere 1, 2 and 3 points. They did beat up Hamilton 21-7, but the Bantams beat the Continentals 58-0 (with all scoring done before the 4th quarter).

I agree with former's assessment that the field conditions slowed Trinity's offense for much of the Tufts game. On the turf in the Coop Trinity is sure to put up at least 28-35 points. While their defense (who has allowed 6 points the entire year so far) should be able to contain the Polar Bears and hold them to at most 10 points.

I'm sure Priore isn't too happy about the scare in Medford and will be looking to prove that there is only one powerhouse in NESCAC football. If Bowdoin plays extremely well they could make it a game, but I think Trinity is going to be too tough for them to handle and the Polar Bear undefeated streak will end at 4.

[big toe]

*Just to go back to an earlier point, I'm a Williams fan but I'm also a NESCAC fan in general because its members value academics more than anything else. Believe me it's very different in that sense from the other d3 football leagues around the country. I believe a lot of other d3 fans envy us for it and wish their league put academics first, too. 

*Saul might not be very politically correct but he's backing up his general message with facts and also saying what's on a lot of minds around the league. Some fans at Trinity ridicule the league in the past for not keeping league standings and joke about how maybe they shouldn't even keep score. You talk scores and smack all the time but when someone like Saul starts talking about a different scoreboard ( like admissions rates, rankings), the one that pretty well explains Trinity's success on the field you guys are all of a sudden very politically correct and sensitive guys.  Maybe you would be happier if the annual college rankings were just listed in alphabetical order or handed out self-esteem points for hurt feelings? People in glass houses... 

[ktroutvon]

That may be a fair point. 

Alternatively, to compare NESCAC schools is a little short sighted compared with the entire academic universe.  If most of my friends and I can work at BCG, McKinsey, Goldman, CSFB etc. (as well as Harvard Med, Columbia Law, etc.) coming from Hobart, I am pretty sure that Trinity students can do just about anything they want if they put any effort into school while they are there.  I don't know what the Trinity students do in the academic efforts, but it's not as though they go to Plattsburg or Keene St. 

[formerbant10]

As I've said before, many of the Trinity football players get amazing jobs after college also.  The NESCAC in general does very well post-graduation.  Some of the guys that are posting in here have very good jobs for being just out of school.  And while that may be what other schools are whispering about, we can't hear you at Trinity b/c we're too busy having fun and enjoying college for what it is....a 4 year party.  We work hard, and play harder.  Being #24 or whatever the exact ranking is is good enough for us. 

[bant551]

*Saul might not be very politically correct but he's backing up his general message with facts and also saying what's on a lot of minds around the league.

I respectfully disagree with your point.  I think Saul has been making bald, conclusory allegations based entirely upon inferences.  The ONLY basis for his arguments that have any basis in FACT, whatsoever, as opposed to PURE SPECULATION is that Trinity football has been dominant the past 3 years or so.  So, as far as Saul is conceding that Trinity has been a powerhouse recently, his statements are based in fact. 

I ask that you point out some sort of sourced/verifiable STATISTIC, QUOTE, or other sort of TANGIBLE EVIDENCE that Saul has put forward which support Saul's inflammatory allegations that recruiting improprieties are taking place, that standards have been lowered at Trinity, or that some other sort of sketchy tactics are being used.

To wit, I don't think Saul has offered any sort of evidence that Trinity football players do not have success in the classroom, do not attend classes, etc.  Nor has he provided even a scintilla of evidence showing that recruiting standards have been lowered compared to when Trinity was a league doormat (or one of those excruciatingly bland 4-4 teams that Trinity fielded before this current streak).

The ONLY basis for Saul's attacks on Trinity has been the amazing success that we have had in recent years.  Period.  Its embarassing really.  It amounts to nothing more than sour grapes.

[Roonyhufsfarts]

I know i have harped on this issue several times in the past, but i will mention once more.....

where does the tire meet the road in college acaemically?

where the student meets the professor in class for lectures - discussions.

I was a history major and I can say without any hesitation that the quality of teaching I received, frequently in classes with less than 10 people, was absolutely outstanding.

I think this is where the difference between the NESCAC schools is the smallest.  Sure, I bet Williams and Amherst, Bowdoin, Wes Tech and others have outstanding profs too, perhaps more academically accomplished (ie wrote more books).  But when it comes down to it, Trinity's profs are increadibly intelligent, devoted to teaching their students, and expect a great deal of hard work from them, football player or not.

Before all the williams alums get excited, let me once again say....sure your profs may be better qualified resumewise.....but that does not always translate into a better teacher, although I am sure that other NESCAC schools do have wonderful teachers and certainly some that are better teachers than trins.  

I guess what I am saying is that the quality of teaching within the NESCAC is extremely high, and I mean very very high, regardless of the fact that you are the lowest ranked in term of difficulty to get into (even though it is very difficult to get into).  And I am positive that if you asked any NESCAC profs about the other NESCAC profs they would only have very positive things to say.  

OK enough of that.

Is anyone going to the Bowdoin game?  I am thinking of going if the weather is nice.  Maybe just sit in the stands, have a couple "sodas" and watch a reved up Bants team and a reved up Polar Bear team duke it out.  

[ktroutvon]

I have to say that the smartest thing Trinity ever did was force Dick Hersh out.  He was a drain on the life of Hobart and it looks like the same at Trinity.  I think I read that his tenure at Trinity was the shortest of a college president in the history of academia.

[Trin9-0]

Big Toe: I disagree that the Trinity posters have shied away from the fact that Trinity has the lowest academic rank in the NESCAC. In fact I'm the one who found and posted the U.S. News and World Report rankings.

I did that because I am proud to be an alumnus one of the 25 best liberal arts colleges in the nation. There is no shame in that for me (regardless of the fact that other NESCAC schools are ranked higher).

It seems to me that every week we circle around this same issue.

Trinity has a slight advantage in recruiting because they can accept players that others NESCAC schools can not. My argument is that Trinity has ALWAYS had that advantage. Why is it just the past 2 or 3 years that we have seen the Bantams dominate the league in such a way?

The reason Trinity has the best football program in the history of the NESCAC, is because Priore has done an outstanding job of finding academically eligible recruits from across the country and has been able to instill in them a winning mentality based on the principles of hard work, dedication and commitment both in and out of season.


ktroutvon: I couldn't agree more, Hersh was the worst.

hufsfarts: I'll be at the game, hope to see you there.

[ktroutvon]

Shouldn't Hamilton be an above average team if looking at selectivity? 

I know they are awful, but the same profile of kid looks at Hamilton as Trinity (from a raw score kind of standpoint, I realize that there are vast differences culturally between the two schools).

[Knightstalker]

I love it when Saul posts, he gives us much insite into the elitest mindset.  I have learned that you have to attend William or Amherst to be able to attend a top flight Ivy league Law or medical school.  I guess those kids I knew at NJCU (a lowly NJ state university filled with low life dummies that couldn't spell Amherst or Williams) that went on to Ivy League schools that they can't do that because they weren't fortunate enough to have a mommy or daddy that could afford the best prep schools.  Forget about the NJCU graduates that become teachers and go to schools like Columbia, NYU, Cornell, Rutgers for their bachelors or doctorates, they aren't smart enough for them either, well maybe Rutgers, after all it is a state school albeit a state school with admission standards that come pretty close to those of Duke and Stanford.  Of course none of the Computer Science majors would be able to go on to schools like MIT, Steven Tech, NJIT etc because they are only state school students.

Saul get a clue.  I have one question for you, did you attend a private high school or a public high school?

[Trin9-0]

ktroutvon: That's exactly my point, even Bates is a comparable school to Trinity in terms of academics. Why aren't Hamilton and Bates dominating the league if they have comparable numbers to Trinity?

Is it because they're not cheating the right way, or could it possibly be that their program simply isn't run as well as Priore's?

[Knightstalker]

The quality of the classroom experience is extremely important.  The professional qualifications of the majority of the professors at NJCU were extremely impressive.  In the music department there were professors with doctorates from Michigan, Columbia, Julliard, Eastman, Notre Dame, Penn, Princeton, Harvard, Yale and two with doctorates from the Paris Conservatory of Music (one of the finest music schools in the world)  Many performed on Broadway or with one of the many symphony orchestras in the NY metro area or were touring jazz musicians.  There were journalism professors that worked for major newspapers, networks etc, media professors working for major networks and radio stations, recording studios.

The point is there are outstanding professors on every level of college from Ivies on down to Junior and community colleges.  I also know what you mean by the small class sizes.  At NJCU the majority of the classes within the different majors were usually fairly small which leads to deeper discussions and more personal time with a professor which is invaluable.