FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[jumpshot]

Ecoastfootball, please don't misunderstand. I played football and two other sports at the collegiate level and value the game, including supporting our son in his participation in a most competitive football experience. Just stating what I and many others "see around the corner."

Glad to know that on those things on which we disagree you are capable of still learning ....

[jmcozenlaw]

Wow...this board does " lead the pack" in gathering football info.
In the WSJ today, there is a major story...Arena Section...titled "How Harvard Became the Harvard of Football". 
Subtitle..."Harvard is leveraging financial aid and donor money to build a dominating football team-- and beat. yale on Saturday".  Almost two page story...including a list of players going to the NFL.
Yes this board wanders a bit...but seems we do know what is going on.
Oh yes...may comment on the tailgate post...good post .   Game day show in Cambridge...possible MIT hack!

I've written recently on several different boards how Harvard has become the "University of Pennsylvania" of football and basketball.....................all at some very prominent/wealthy alums request. Standards for athletes (predominantly in those two sports) have become quite compromised and the financial aid packages are stunning. I have a very good friend who's son is on the basketball team. Solid student.......but not a "Harvard student" by any means. Parents make about $800K combined. He is barely paying anything between the various grants and other financial aid voodoo.

Penn really started the "Ivy Games"....................Harvard has taken it to another level!!

Can anyone say Tommy Ammaker?

[banfan]

"But a Colgate or Columbia degree has just as much cachet, those programs will be around for the 4 years I am there, and in the Patriot League I can even get paid to play.  So why should I accept the Bowdoin offer to wear a boring black uniform and play on a crap field, on a team that's relegated to the bottom of the 'CAC, in a program that may be gone before I matriculate?".

I understand what you are saying but personal experience would tell me that no player who Colgate might give a scholarship to would consider Bowdoin. If, in the future, they might, it would be after Bowdoin and its new coach had taken the "program" to new heights. That is years away if ever.

In general, our talk may not be representative of others. Kids and parents may not consider our opinions as valid and recruiting at Brunswick has ALWAYS been tough for football. Unless Bowdoin could do what Wes has done, the future of PolarBear football is just as blah as it has been, No?

[amh63]

Maybe a little off topic...but reading the WSJ does remind me of chats here of a possible longer season, etc.  The article mention player thoughts of going to the post season playoffs.
It also goes to explain a recent chat at Homecoming with a Classmate who was the starting QB.  My classmate, a retired VMD, introduced me to his younger granddaughter.  His older grandchild is a senior WBB player at Amherst.  He mentioned that Amherst would not come up with the funds for his potential recruit in WBB...that the Ivies were most interested...in particular Yale.  I responded that the family may earn too much and stated does Yale have a BB team.  A little harsh in reflection, but was ignorant of the changes in the Ivies wrt to financial aid vice the NESCAC.  The mother of the recruit is also an Amherst grad and a VMD.  I went back to watching the football game and suggested to several players...was in the WBB tent...in particular the All Americian center to go talk with the young recruit.

[madzillagd]

Jumpshot - I think you are right in what you are saying about the future.  As a father of a 6 year old boy, he has already been told he will not be playing tackle football.  It's just not a risk we are willing to take and better he knows that now because he will grow up channeling his interest into other sports. In our close group of friends we have at least 5 other families that have made the same decision.  Who knows if our sons would have even been interested at the time they'd likely start playing, but there's just far too much information out there already to ignore.  I think you are going to see more and more families make that same decision. 

[lumbercat]

It was a big blow to the Colby Football program last year when they lost Offensive Coordinator Steve Opgenorth. He left Colby to take the HFC job at St Norbert's  in Wisconsin.

Although Coby also lost QB Ciero, in looking at Colby!s offense this year it's obvious that Opgenorth was missed in a very big way.

Strangely, Opgenorth has resigned the HFC job at St. Norbert after just one year, a 6-4 record.
Could he be retuning to the NESCAC as Bowdoin HFC....

[jmcozenlaw]

Jumpshot - I think you are right in what you are saying about the future.  As a father of a 6 year old boy, he has already been told he will not be playing tackle football.  It's just not a risk we are willing to take and better he knows that now because he will grow up channeling his interest into other sports. In our close group of friends we have at least 5 other families that have made the same decision.  Who knows if our sons would have even been interested at the time they'd likely start playing, but there's just far too much information out there already to ignore.  I think you are going to see more and more families make that same decision.

I know some parents who have made the same decision regarding ice hockey with the concussions based on hits to the head, head hitting the boards and the ice, and the lack of guts to outlaw fighting. Every other sport is doing whatever possible to protect against head injuries (to the extent that they can)...............while the NHL actually believes that they would lose a chunk of their fan base if they outlawed the practice. Imagine basketball players settling issues with their fists. Imagine football players taking off their helmets and permitted to fistfight.

Hockey is wannabe boxing on frozen water............insane. This coming from somebody who has been to over 25 beanpots

[ECoastFootball]

Jumpshot - I think you are right in what you are saying about the future.  As a father of a 6 year old boy, he has already been told he will not be playing tackle football.  It's just not a risk we are willing to take and better he knows that now because he will grow up channeling his interest into other sports. In our close group of friends we have at least 5 other families that have made the same decision.  Who knows if our sons would have even been interested at the time they'd likely start playing, but there's just far too much information out there already to ignore.  I think you are going to see more and more families make that same decision.

I know some parents who have made the same decision regarding ice hockey with the concussions based on hits to the head, head hitting the boards and the ice, and the lack of guts to outlaw fighting. Every other sport is doing whatever possible to protect against head injuries (to the extent that they can)...............while the NHL actually believes that they would lose a chunk of their fan base if they outlawed the practice. Imagine basketball players settling issues with their fists. Imagine football players taking off their helmets and permitted to fistfight.

Hockey is wannabe boxing on frozen water............insane. This coming from somebody who has been to over 25 beanpots

I think one difference in hockey is that you're on ice. Those blows look bad, but the fact that they're grabbing and clutching and sliding around leads to a much tamer fight than would come from athletes on turf or on the hardwood. Also, unless I'm mistaken, fighting is not allowed in any level of hockey other than the NHL.

[jmcozenlaw]

Jumpshot - I think you are right in what you are saying about the future.  As a father of a 6 year old boy, he has already been told he will not be playing tackle football.  It's just not a risk we are willing to take and better he knows that now because he will grow up channeling his interest into other sports. In our close group of friends we have at least 5 other families that have made the same decision.  Who knows if our sons would have even been interested at the time they'd likely start playing, but there's just far too much information out there already to ignore.  I think you are going to see more and more families make that same decision.

I know some parents who have made the same decision regarding ice hockey with the concussions based on hits to the head, head hitting the boards and the ice, and the lack of guts to outlaw fighting. Every other sport is doing whatever possible to protect against head injuries (to the extent that they can)...............while the NHL actually believes that they would lose a chunk of their fan base if they outlawed the practice. Imagine basketball players settling issues with their fists. Imagine football players taking off their helmets and permitted to fistfight.

Hockey is wannabe boxing on frozen water............insane. This coming from somebody who has been to over 25 beanpots

I think one difference in hockey is that you're on ice. Those blows look bad, but the fact that they're grabbing and clutching and sliding around leads to a much tamer fight than would come from athletes on turf or on the hardwood. Also, unless I'm mistaken, fighting is not allowed in any level of hockey other than the NHL.

The NHL needs to outlaw fighting. It is completely insane. In the real world.........it's assault and battery.

I hold my breath when I see a hard hit in football, with one player in an awkward position with his head down.

I bless myself when I see blatant boarding in hockey. Headfirst with head down into the boards is very serious stuff and has really hurt youth hockey (along with the expense and wacky ice times) in the PA area.

[hamgrand]

I am no expert on the subject ...  And frankly some may say that I took a few too many hits in my playing days.  But I thought I read somewhere that there were actually more documented concussions in the extreme sports (skateboarding, skiing, snowboarding, etc..) than football last year.  Anyone recall or hear anything on this?  I can't recall where I came across this info. (See opening statement ...)

I am not trying to make light of this very serious subject, but at the same time I would hate to see the wonderful game of football (or hockey) ruined because of the fear of concussions.  Certainly the ramifications of concussions are real, and they need to be taken seriously in the game of football or hockey or any sport.  The NFL and youth football organizations across the country are trying to deal with this using safer equipment, rules changes, better teaching and coaching techniques, heads up football, etc...

I just get frustrated that often times the real facts get overshadowed by the media scare stories and the frenzy that results from misinformed public perception.  Everyone would agree that the risk of concussions should be understood and protected against.  But I would like to better understand the risks from football or hockey versus other activities?

I am now 50 and I played football from Pop Warner at age 11 through college.  I also tried or played many other sports (basketball, wrestling, track, and even played baseball in college as well).  Growing up we were always active outside year round.  I have never been diagnosed with a concussion - but I am sure I have seen stars many times.  Certainly I got my bell rung several times in organized football.  My first year of play was with the old shell and suspension football helmet and then we graduated to the newer styles (which back then were much less protective than the helmets now.)  But I actually think I got my bell rung many more times playing in the back yard than playing organized football.  Certainly we used to play a lot of sandlot tackle football - and my friends and I were much more likely to see stars after a hard tackle or hit.  But I also fell on the ice (not playing hockey), fell out of a tree, ran around the corner into a brick chimney,  flew off my bike (twice - once I was 40), was rung up multiple times boxing in the back yard with friends,  fell swinging on the monkey bars, was pushed into the pole playing playground basketball,  got into a motorbike accident, was thrown off a snowmobile, bashed my head on a fence when sliding, hit in the eye with a bad hop (multiple times), and probably most embarassingly - chipped my front teeth when I landed face first on the sidewalk when horsing around with buddies in college.

There is always risk in everything you do.  Are we going to make our youth live in a bubble?  And I guess I am afraid that the game of football could be hurt because of concerns about risks that could be managed with safer equipment and playing techniques.  Sorry for the rant ... but now that I got that off my chest, I think I will go do some more research on concussions.

[polbear73]

Thank you, hamgrand for your thoughts. My playing background is similar to yours and I agree wholeheartedly with your "rant".

[quicksilver]

There is no football specific or hockey specific breakdown but this data from Bowdoin for the past three years indicates a consistent pattern of about 60 concussions per year spread out among 17-20 teams so the ability to hurt your brain is hardly limited to football and hockey. I'm guessing that lacrosse, soccer, and rugby are contributors as well as sports like baseball, softball, field hockey, and maybe even basketball and other sports like track.

[lumbercat]

Same here, same background and agree with Hamgrand completely- well stated.

[madzillagd]

I would encourage that anybody that is interested in the subject do their research.  The research that has been conducted so far is overwhelmingly one-sided.  The issue has been the NFL actively fighting against that research being done in the first place but the tide is slowly turning and I'm sure in the next 10 years a whole lot more will start to come out about CTE etc. Especially now that there is national funding for it because of Veterans showing signs as well. It wasn't until last year that they finally developed a test to identify CTE in living patients.  When 76 of 79 NFL players are found to have brain damage, I don't think that's media hype.  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sports/concussion-watch/76-of-79-deceased-nfl-players-found-to-have-brain-disease/

One program I watched on the subject showed they are now finding that it is occurring in athletes that have never even been diagnosed with a concussion.  That it isn't always the big hits, but the accumulation of smaller hits as well that a lineman for example would more likely endure throughout their careers.

As for the rant, it's always great to hear who had to walk to school both ways in the snow uphill... 

[amh63]

Tough topic, great post Hamgrand!  +k
Topic can become personnal and deal with the parental concern...however it is a discussion on a topic that needs to continue,imo.  On another board there is post that is connected to this topic, I believe, wrt to the " bubble" factor.
Amherst's Aaron Toomey'14 was a two time Player of the Year in all of MBB Div.3.  He followed his dream and is now playing pro ball in Spain..in an upper level league.  It was posted that Toomey was injured during practice and will be out at least two months.  He has just undergone surgery for a fractured skull.  A multi sport athlete, a fierce competitor that at 6'1",  would battle under the boards for rebounds.  Believe he has never experienced an major injury like this.  Go figure.
I have watched my two sons suffered injuries throughout their years into adulthood.  I suggest one drop Rugby after loosing his two front teeth, another get injured in a physical BB game.  Both are Amherst grads and still getting hurt...no more rock climbing, or skate board injuries or even mountain bike competition after marriages.  I could cite other examples and still worry now as both work and live in NYC.  However, I do know that they listen to my concerns then and now....in the end it is still their choice.  I maybe wrong and foolish, but I believe they have lived a fuller and richer life participating in sports activities of their choosing.