FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[dirtybirds8-0]

Amen.....

[frank uible]

NESCAC is an abomination to football. What speedy calls reform I call conspiracy deliberately designed to reduce competition, thereby generally and specifically lowering quality  and  depriving student-athletes of opportunities within their colleges and also pre-matriculation choices. NESCAC ought to be abolished for football purposes, allowing and requiring each of the member colleges to form unilaterally its football program as it sees fit with respect to opponents, dates and number of games, dates and number of practices,  squad size and otherwise. Restrictions which NESCAC imposes on its member colleges would be hard core antitrust violations involving criminal sanctions and civil liability if practiced in the commercial world.

[Jonny Utah]

roonyhufsfarts, actually a communist is the best system for football competition.  Look at the NFL.  Profit sharing, Players unions, thats as close to communism as your going to get, and I think it works well.

Lets say Bill Gates buys the tampa bay devil rays, spends 300 million on his team and 100 million on luxury taxes.  The devil rays will win the world series...very capitilistic and very un-competitive and no one would watch probaseball after a few devilrays world series...

Frank, as you know we disagree with this issue.  If the nescac colleges listened to you, they would simply throw trinity out of the league.  As you say yourself, trinity can play whoever they want.  If trinity wants to keep playing nescac schools, they have to follow nescac guidelines.  If they disagree with them, then they can play someone else or leave the league.

Frank, these restrictions are not legal restrictions, they are non-leagal unofficial agreements between league members.  This is a free country, (as you know and love) private people/colleges can form rules however they want.

[bant551]

But what rules is Trinity breaking? 

Is there some sort of a rule that no college is allowed to be ranked the lowest out of the nine elite colleges in the league?

Doesn't that mean we can only have one team in the league?

All we ever hear about from Saul is that Trinity is breaking rules.  When told he cannot back that claim up, he "backs it up" with the fact that Trinity has the lowest SAT scores, per student, in the NESCAC.  Fascinating?  Yes indeed; NOONE knew THAT!  Relevant?  Not when we are talking about whether Trinity broke the rules.

The NESCAC should ban great coaching, great recruiting, and dedicated players that buy into a program and work their tails off year-round while most other teams in the NESCAC have weightlifting programs that would embarass competitive high schools.

[frank uible]

jonny: Not in violation of the antitrust laws. But legalities aside,  NESCAC restrictions are bad educational policy because they limit student-athletes in their opportunities and choices. The Rule of 75 is a simple example of such a limitation.

[Jonny Utah]

Ok, what about the 9,500 rejections out of 10,000 applicants that dont get a chance to get a Williams Eduacation every year?  Thats a school choice isn't it?

[Jonny Utah]

and bant551, trinity isnt breaking any rules.

[Billsville]

I would like to see a breakdown of eventual earnings among nescac football players and nescac athletes in general vs the rest of the student body. I would venture that the athlete's earnings are higher in the long run. This can be attributed to a competitive streak that is fostered through athletics. Most athletes end up going into business or another competitve practice, while few go into acedemia where there is some competition for positionsbut overall it is a much more laid back non competitve field once you are in. This cycle fosters a resentment and jealously among professors and administrators agaisnt athletes who they beleive are less qualified but make more money. Trustees know that they cannot get rid of football because of the huge donation losses that would cause. But you would probably find that the majority of faculty and administration would get rid of football if they made the decision. Rather then trying to bring everyone down to their level, the adminstrators should be making every effort to try and foster the competive spirit in non-athletes. These are all generalization and are not universally true but I beleive they are fair generalizations of the feeling throughout the nescac.

[bant551]

I'd like to see those gutless pukes Bucci and Saul in person.

[Jonny Utah]

billsville, lets hope that the trustees keep football because nescac football is one of the greatest traditions in this country.  

and so is football for that matter.  

[speedy]

But what does additinal restrictions mean for the league speedy?  It seems you and people of your mindset are upset their is a imbalance in the cometition in the NESCAC.  . . .

I am simply saying what I think will happen -- not what should happen. I really don't know enough about the actual qualifications of the Trinity football players to ascertain how much of an advantage is associated with Trinity's lower admission standards or whether the disparity in academic qualifications between Trinity football players and other NESCAC football players is in fact huge. If those diaparities are in fact huge (as many seem to think), then my guess is that the NESCAC will act to restrict the practices that cause those disparities. But right now we are very much in the realm of suppositions and anecdotal evidence, none of which will ultimately be dispositive.

[speedy]

NESCAC is an abomination to football. What speedy calls reform I call conspiracy deliberately designed to reduce competition, thereby generally and specifically lowering quality  and  depriving student-athletes of opportunities within their colleges and also pre-matriculation choices. . .

There wouldn't be a NESCAC if its members were interested in raw race-to-the-bottom competition.  If the NESCAC schools shared your world view, NESCAC wouldn't exist. 

[mariner75]

WOW!......been away on business this week with no access to email (besides the fact that the Jumbos have been licking their wounds for the pastings we've taken from the Jeffs & Ephs the past 2 weeks, I didn't feel like posting anyway...doesn't beating Amherst the past 2 years count for anything?!).....amazing posts re: Trin, academics, & the NESCAC in general (let's all just ignore Ubile, he  hates the NESCAC for no reason, ok?). Can we talk some football?!

Game of the Week....Trinity at Amherst...time to go to the TALE OF THE TAPE (and I didn't look at the stats....just went by what I saw at each game vs. Tufts.....both played in very messy conditions) :

Running O: Trin
Passing O: Am
Run D: Am
Pass D: Trin
Team speed: Even
Homefield advantage: Am
Intangibles: Trin
Coaching: Trin

Final score: 17-14

Trinity

Go Jumbos!

[frank uible]

speedy: That's my point. NESCAC shouldn't exist. Each college should be able to run its program as it sees fit and not be governed by rules of others limiting its actions. If a college independently chooses to limit its actions, so be it. NESCAC has not existed since time immemorial. At one time and for a long time the colleges now comprising NESCAC got along with healthy, high quality athletic programs and did so by acting independently. If a college sufficiently objected to the practices of another college, the first college could choose to decline to schedule the second college.

[speedy]

speedy: That's my point. NESCAC shouldn't exist. Each college should be able to run its program as it sees fit and not be governed by rules of others limiting its actions. If a college independently chooses to limit its actions, so be it. NESCAC has not existed since time immemorial. At one time and for a long time the colleges now comprising NESCAC got along with healthy, high quality athletic programs and did so by acting independently. If a college sufficiently objected to the practices of another college, the first college could choose to decline to schedule the second college.

But the facts are that the NESCAC does exist. The 10 member institutions voluntarily chose to join together and form a league and establish rules and procedures.  There is no "Frank Uible" or "Ayn Rand" College in the group and no desire on the part of any of them to act as you recommend. If any institution desired to do as you suggest, it is free to do so but none is in any way interested in your approach. In fact, they did as you suggested years ago and decided that there was more to be gained by joining together and forming a league of insitutions with common purposes.