FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[dirtybirds8-0]

There really is only one way to look at the issue of Trinity football competing in the D3 playoffs.  If we take other NESCAC sports who compete on the national scale, we will see NESCAC athletes able to compete and even dominate the national polls...i.e. Lacrosse, basketball, hockey, baseball.  Would it be to agressive to say that the athletes playing football at Trinity would be equally as sucessful on the field as the other NESCAC mens teams that have been ranked nationally in other sports?  In addition, in 2003 and 2004 we sent players to the Aztec Bowl....when asked if Trinity could compete amongst other schools, the answer was a definitive YES.  Now I know those opinions are biased, but good athletes know how to gauge competiton.  If these athletes felt that Trinity could compete I would have to believe their sentiments.  Also, I believe that in 2003, Grahm Goldwasser was slected as one of the captains for the USA team...he was a linbacker for Williams and was arguably the second best linebacker in the league....behind a Trinity linebacker.  The point is, there is talent in the NESCAC..and I would challenge anyone to refute that...we have athletes that could compete on any D3 team in the nation....as I have said before, as a team we might not be top 10 material...but top 25 is a definite.

[mariner75]

db....I agree re: your comments on other sports.......look at the national polls for soccer, field hockey, lacrosse, x-country, etc, etc....NESCAC schools frequently have teams listed there...& frequently dominate the top 10-25.....

[speedy]

There really is only one way to look at the issue of Trinity football competing in the D3 playoffs.  If we take other NESCAC sports who compete on the national scale, we will see NESCAC athletes able to compete and even dominate the national polls...i.e. Lacrosse, basketball, hockey, baseball.  Would it be to agressive to say that the athletes playing football at Trinity would be equally as sucessful on the field as the other NESCAC mens teams that have been ranked nationally in other sports?   . .

I agree 100%. I have been mystified as to why so many seem to accept the idea that the best NESCAC team is not as good as the best team in most other conferences simply because it does not play outside its conference.  Interconference play provides data points to compare teams in differant leagues but the absence of interconference play does not automatically mean a reduced quality of play. 

[Jonny Utah]

I would just say that teams like Ithaca and Springfield and sjf have much more physical lineman and running backs than the nescac schools.  They are stronger and more athletic and I think a team like trinity would lose it on the line of scrimmage against a team like ithaca or sjf.  those guys are too strong and quick.

[Jonny Utah]

and to be fair, I guess Im a little biased too, but Ive seen about 20 nescac games and about 20 e8/d3 games in the last 10 years.

[bant551]

Utah, I didn't think about that argument and it does put things into perspective (about how other sports teams from the NESCAC do in playoffs and how football isn't inherently different than those sports).

While I still think its only fair that NESCAC's have a harder time getting ranked in football, there is nothing inherently different about football that makes the analogy with other sports in the NESCAC that go to the playoffs illogical.

[Jonny Utah]

well bant551, there is a difference of sqauad size.  In football you need 50 solid football players to have a top 25 team.  all those other sports you need like 10 solid athletes, some sports less.

And we all know its hard for schools with high academic standards to get 50 solid males out of 1,000 males in the total student body. 

Im not saying Trinity couldnt be a top 25 or even top 10 team for that matter, but I wouldn't use other sports successes as an example.

[mariner75]

Utah,

You make some sense on the squad size but a strong counterpoint could be made for men's lacrosse programs as national powers.  They have larger size squads and I know that Middlebury & Tufts, amond other NESCACs,  has been top 10 ranked teams the past few years & Middlebury's has played (not sure if they won) in the national championship game.  Matter of fact, a number of the Jumbo football players also play lacrosse, namely their starting QB.  (Now if Tufts Offense could only score like the lacrosse team does!!).

[bant551]

Very good points about the squad size.  I'd tend to agree, but watching the Trinity offensive and defensive lines these past few years, I don't think they'd be any softer than D-3 lines from playoff conferences.  They're very good and the O-line from last year was made up of guys that were big enough to play at any other D-3 school.  And they were VERY good.  I cannot compare this year's O-line because I haven't seen them play.

So I think you made a great point about squad size and I think that would be a very big factor most years.  I do, however, think that the recent Trinity squads have been machines.

[Jonny Utah]

lacrosse might not be a good example either.  The sport itself is still a mainly prep-school, upperclass sport, perfect for the nescac.  It is also mainly a northeast phenomonon, giving the nescac even more of an advantage.

[Jonny Utah]

And mariner yes, Middlebury has won several national championships and the nescac is the best league in division 3 lacrosse.

[Trin9-0]

Good points all around, but how about we talk about something that's not hypothetical. For instance this weeks games. Let's hear some predictions... anybody think Amherst can pull the upset? Bates vs Bowdoin and Tufts vs Colby could also be good games. I'm definately goin up to Amherst for the game. Any one else going? Saul be sure to come say hi, bring bigtoe and bobbyj too.

[frank uible]

How many persons opining on this subject have considerable experience (i) in watching non-NESCAC DIII teams play and (ii) in judging the comparative quality of college football play?

[Jonny Utah]

Id say I do Frank, but its still only an opinion of a big football fan/ex d3player

[frank uible]

jonny: You are one.