FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[iamhuge]

Why are New Englanders so arrogant? Do you really believe that the only choice is Nescac or Curry? What about Patriot Leage, Davidson and the Pioneer League, how about Pomona, Whitter, Claremont? I know most in the Nescac can't believe it, but there are some very smart young men who don't go to Choate or Exeter and do attend these other schools because the football is better.

Ok then, how many New England kids are choosing to go to Whittier, Pomona or Claremont over NESCAC schools because they want to go to the playoffs?  Not many.  Those teams have a .003% chance of winning a national championship anyway.  Some Patriot league schools and all Ivy league schools do not got the playoffs anyway so do you feel the same about them?  Does Mount Union have better football than Harvard because Mount Union gets to go to the playoffs?  The answer is no. 

I have been coaching high school football in Massachusetts for over 10 years.  Off hand I can think of 9 players that I have coached who have played football at nescac schools. Kids in general around here don't even know about the d3 playoffs.  They choose nescac schools because they are great schools and they are 2-4 hour car drives.  But now that I'm thinking about it, I've coached kids who have played at Ivy league schools,  Patriot league schools, Claremont, Gettysburg, Franklin and Marshall, Every NEFC school, Hobart, Bentely, and several other d2 schools.

And the kid who played at Claremont didn't go there because Claremont has the chance to make the playoffs.  He went there because of their computer science programs.

According to the Born Power Index, Mt. Union would beat Harvard by 9 points.  I think that's about right.

[maxpower]

Why are New Englanders so arrogant? Do you really believe that the only choice is Nescac or Curry? What about Patriot Leage, Davidson and the Pioneer League, how about Pomona, Whitter, Claremont? I know most in the Nescac can't believe it, but there are some very smart young men who don't go to Choate or Exeter and do attend these other schools because the football is better.

Ok then, how many New England kids are choosing to go to Whittier, Pomona or Claremont over NESCAC schools because they want to go to the playoffs?  Not many.  Those teams have a .003% chance of winning a national championship anyway.  Some Patriot league schools and all Ivy league schools do not got the playoffs anyway so do you feel the same about them?  Does Mount Union have better football than Harvard because Mount Union gets to go to the playoffs?  The answer is no. 

I have been coaching high school football in Massachusetts for over 10 years.  Off hand I can think of 9 players that I have coached who have played football at nescac schools. Kids in general around here don't even know about the d3 playoffs.  They choose nescac schools because they are great schools and they are 2-4 hour car drives.  But now that I'm thinking about it, I've coached kids who have played at Ivy league schools,  Patriot league schools, Claremont, Gettysburg, Franklin and Marshall, Every NEFC school, Hobart, Bentely, and several other d2 schools.

And the kid who played at Claremont didn't go there because Claremont has the chance to make the playoffs.  He went there because of their computer science programs.

According to the Born Power Index, Mt. Union would beat Harvard by 9 points.  I think that's about right.

Uh, no.

[runyr]

Why are New Englanders so arrogant? Do you really believe that the only choice is Nescac or Curry? What about Patriot Leage, Davidson and the Pioneer League, how about Pomona, Whitter, Claremont? I know most in the Nescac can't believe it, but there are some very smart young men who don't go to Choate or Exeter and do attend these other schools because the football is better.

Ok then, how many New England kids are choosing to go to Whittier, Pomona or Claremont over NESCAC schools because they want to go to the playoffs?  Not many.  Those teams have a .003% chance of winning a national championship anyway.  Some Patriot league schools and all Ivy league schools do not got the playoffs anyway so do you feel the same about them?  Does Mount Union have better football than Harvard because Mount Union gets to go to the playoffs?  The answer is no. 

I have been coaching high school football in Massachusetts for over 10 years.  Off hand I can think of 9 players that I have coached who have played football at nescac schools. Kids in general around here don't even know about the d3 playoffs.  They choose nescac schools because they are great schools and they are 2-4 hour car drives.  But now that I'm thinking about it, I've coached kids who have played at Ivy league schools,  Patriot league schools, Claremont, Gettysburg, Franklin and Marshall, Every NEFC school, Hobart, Bentely, and several other d2 schools.

And the kid who played at Claremont didn't go there because Claremont has the chance to make the playoffs.  He went there because of their computer science programs.

According to the Born Power Index, Mt. Union would beat Harvard by 9 points.  I think that's about right.

Before I looked at Born Power Index (BPI), I thought the only current Ivy League team that could beat Mount Union this year was Penn.

I checked BPI:
Penn  69.1
Mount Union 69.0

Don't bother doubting BPI if you haven't seen both an Ivy League game this year and Mount Union in playoff form.  Even a Bomber would have to admit that Mount Union would have no trouble at all with Cornell this year.  (My niece is a freshman at Cornell, so I watched a couple of their games.  Ouch!)

[iamhuge]

Mt. Union would punish most FCS teams. 

[Jonny Utah]

You guys are nuts.

I've seen Harvard live twice this year and they would beat Mount Union by 4 touchdowns.  The Ivy league teams are different than they were 10 years ago, and the linemen are simply to big for d3 defenses.  I've also seen Mt. Union live once, and if Ithaca can move the ball on them, then any Ivy league team is going to move the ball on them.

I don't think it would be impossible for the top d3 team to beat the worst Ivy league team in any game, but you need to see these kids in and out of uniform to understand that FCS players are much bigger, faster and stronger than Mount Union or any other d3 team.

When I played in the mid 1990s, Ithaca played AIC and Albany.  I saw both AIC and Albany then play Northeastern, who was one of the worst d1-aa teams in the country.  Northeastern beat AIC and Albany by a combined score of 100-7 and AIC and Albany were around where Ithaca was, top 25 d3 teams in the country.

[maxpower]

You guys are nuts.

I've seen Harvard live twice this year and they would beat Mount Union by 4 touchdowns.  The Ivy league teams are different than they were 10 years ago, and the linemen are simply to big for d3 defenses.  I've also seen Mt. Union live once, and if Ithaca can move the ball on them, then any Ivy league team is going to move the ball on them.

I don't think it would be impossible for the top d3 team to beat the worst Ivy league team in any game, but you need to see these kids in and out of uniform to understand that FCS players are much bigger, faster and stronger than Mount Union or any other d3 team.

When I played in the mid 1990s, Ithaca played AIC and Albany.  I saw both AIC and Albany then play Northeastern, who was one of the worst d1-aa teams in the country.  Northeastern beat AIC and Albany by a combined score of 100-7 and AIC and Albany were around where Ithaca was, top 25 d3 teams in the country.

Uh, yeah. I would love to see Mount come close to Harvard. Also, why did you choose Mount? Isn't the consensus that they aren't even the best DIII team this year?

Harvard would destroy Mount.

[nescac1]

I think it would be FAR more difficult for a D-III to beat a D-1 in football then in hoops.  In hoops, all you need is a few really good later bloomers / overlooked players / supremely skilled guys who are undersized / limited athletically for a strong system to put together a stellar team.  In football, you need 25 such players.  In basketball, tremendous skills / shooting / teamwork can overcome vastly superior size and athleticism.  In college football, that is far, far less likely to occur, as speed and strength are just such an overwhelming advantage, and just having skilled guys can't to much to combat that. 

I do think the speed and size of Harvard most years (and I've seen then play several times) would just be way too much for any D-III team to handle.  Remember, there are three players in the NFL right now from  Harvard alone, including a starting NFL QB (Fitzpatrick) and an all-pro NFL center (Matt Birk).  Isn't that more NFL talent than the grand total from all of D-3?

I'd estimate for example that Williams, which went 8-0 this year (no idea of course how they'd fare nationally in D-3, but they are certainly a strong team) had at most about a dozen players (Rose, Hartwell, Scyocurka, Carroll, Canina, Schultz for sure, and possibly Curzi, Cameron, Moffitt, Stickney, Bennett, or maybe another o-lineman as they are tougher to assess) who could have made any sort of contribution at good Ivy programs, and in call cases not until they were upperclassmen for sure.   

[iamhuge]

I think it would be FAR more difficult for a D-III to beat a D-1 in football then in hoops.  In hoops, all you need is a few really good later bloomers / overlooked players / supremely skilled guys who are undersized / limited athletically for a strong system to put together a stellar team.  In football, you need 25 such players.  In basketball, tremendous skills / shooting / teamwork can overcome vastly superior size and athleticism.  In college football, that is far, far less likely to occur, as speed and strength are just such an overwhelming advantage, and just having skilled guys can't to much to combat that. 

I do think the speed and size of Harvard most years (and I've seen then play several times) would just be way too much for any D-III team to handle.  Remember, there are three players in the NFL right now from  Harvard alone, including a starting NFL QB (Fitzpatrick) and an all-pro NFL center (Matt Birk).  Isn't that more NFL talent than the grand total from all of D-3?

I'd estimate for example that Williams, which went 8-0 this year (no idea of course how they'd fare nationally in D-3, but they are certainly a strong team) had at most about a dozen players (Rose, Hartwell, Scyocurka, Carroll, Canina, Schultz for sure, and possibly Curzi, Cameron, Moffitt, Stickney, Bennett, or maybe another o-lineman as they are tougher to assess) who could have made any sort of contribution at good Ivy programs, and in call cases not until they were upperclassmen for sure.   

Thee is an ENORMOUS difference between Williams and Mt. Union.  Haven't you paid any attention to the first round playoff scores?

[Jonny Utah]

I think it would be FAR more difficult for a D-III to beat a D-1 in football then in hoops.  In hoops, all you need is a few really good later bloomers / overlooked players / supremely skilled guys who are undersized / limited athletically for a strong system to put together a stellar team.  In football, you need 25 such players.  In basketball, tremendous skills / shooting / teamwork can overcome vastly superior size and athleticism.  In college football, that is far, far less likely to occur, as speed and strength are just such an overwhelming advantage, and just having skilled guys can't to much to combat that. 

I do think the speed and size of Harvard most years (and I've seen then play several times) would just be way too much for any D-III team to handle.  Remember, there are three players in the NFL right now from  Harvard alone, including a starting NFL QB (Fitzpatrick) and an all-pro NFL center (Matt Birk).  Isn't that more NFL talent than the grand total from all of D-3?

I'd estimate for example that Williams, which went 8-0 this year (no idea of course how they'd fare nationally in D-3, but they are certainly a strong team) had at most about a dozen players (Rose, Hartwell, Scyocurka, Carroll, Canina, Schultz for sure, and possibly Curzi, Cameron, Moffitt, Stickney, Bennett, or maybe another o-lineman as they are tougher to assess) who could have made any sort of contribution at good Ivy programs, and in call cases not until they were upperclassmen for sure.   

Thee is an ENORMOUS difference between Williams and Mt. Union.  Haven't you paid any attention to the first round playoff scores?

Yes I have.  Williams let up less points than Mt. Union did last week.

[Jonny Utah]

And have you ever seen a nescac team live iamhuge?  Williams has had some teams that would be in the d3 top 25.  They have had some nfl players, and some other players which would dominate at this level.

[iamhuge]

And have you ever seen a nescac team live iamhuge?  Williams has had some teams that would be in the d3 top 25.  They have had some nfl players, and some other players which would dominate at this level.

Excuse me while I spit out my coffee.

[Jonny Utah]

And have you ever seen a nescac team live iamhuge?  Williams has had some teams that would be in the d3 top 25.  They have had some nfl players, and some other players which would dominate at this level.

Excuse me while I spit out my coffee.

I forgot that you don't know a lot about small college football.  Carry on.

[maxpower]

And have you ever seen a nescac team live iamhuge?  Williams has had some teams that would be in the d3 top 25.  They have had some nfl players, and some other players which would dominate at this level.

Excuse me while I spit out my coffee.

# of UMU players in the NFL since 1930? 1. And he dropped a crucial catch in the Superbowl  .

[iamhuge]

And have you ever seen a nescac team live iamhuge?  Williams has had some teams that would be in the d3 top 25.  They have had some nfl players, and some other players which would dominate at this level.

Excuse me while I spit out my coffee.

I forgot that you don't know a lot about small college football.  Carry on.

There is no question Williams is an outstanding NESCAC team.

[frank uible]

My uncle can beat up your uncle!