FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[amh63]

Frank...point well taken...as usual.  You continue to surprise me with your storehouse of info.  Did not know that some of the schools you listed still had football teams of any level.  Williams man coaching at Pomona!  Have a niece attend Harvy-Mudd down the street.  Never mentioned anything about the football atmosphere among the schools in the neighborhood.  

[beast58]

Guys ...

I appreciate all the thoughts, thats why I opened it up here. Frank, yours too ...not to harsh.

This is my oldest child and only son so I won't walk this road again. I want to be able to have things to talk about with him on all sides of this decision and enjoy the ride figuratively and literally ( its far to Bates).

Pistachio and Nescac thanks for the time and thoughts. Pistachio thanks as you have gone through it and it's a good thing. He will land in a good spot where it feels right to him and my wife and I are good with that... We (me here) are just trying to get some insight so as to help him see all sides. He got old quick...lol.



Thanks Again

Just a Dad

[frank uible]

amh: Most of the colleges I mentioned tend to play significantly better than average NESCAC football, but I don't recommend to Dad investigation of them based on what he has written here. The combination of Wes, Whalen and the already expressed fit for this young man is extremely unlikely to be surpassed but at any rate will turn out to be wonderful. Stop the insanity and do something more fun and/or productive. We're not talking Ohio State, LSU, USC and a possible pro career.

[Frank Rossi]

Not trying to rain on the NESCAC parade here, but I think there is always room for some outside opinions when it comes to these types of questions.

There is a pretty large balancing act to be done by any student, athlete or not, looking to make the jump.  Throw in the football questions, and things do definitely get muddled.  Your son has to ask himself some questions about just what his desires for football AND football tradition are (these are different things).  Specifically, does he want to play for a program that plays more games per year and plays playoff football, or does the idea of a certain level of football tradition float his boat?  When it comes to the NESCAC, the teams play only themselves in football and opt out of the playoffs every year.  The Patriot League is similarly restrictive (although less so than the NESCAC from what I've seen since the teams play some IVY schools and other low-level FCS schools).  However, as you pointed out, the best of the Liberal Arts Colleges are pretty much layered inside the NESCAC and Patriot League based on US News and World Report.

That said, if playoffs and 9- and 10-game schedules are important to your son since this is likely the end of his football career (assuming no pro career), then you can't completely discount the schools outside the NESCAC (including the Patriot League).  For instance, Bucknell plays 11 games next season, by my count.  Will Bucknell advance to the playoffs or past the first round?  It's unlikely.  However, schools in that League are enticing to some based on the depth of schedule and overall quality of school.

I know I'm hedging here a bit, but it's on purpose.  Ultimately, this is not an easy decision for anybody -- geographic location, grades, family tradition, available majors, academic fit (i.e., if your son doesn't portray himself to be a pure intellectual, he might find some schools to be too stiff for his liking, or vice-versa) and many other issues play into this decision even without football.  Here's a little secret though.  Much like with law schools, in which once you go past the Top 50 (and some claim even closer to the Top 25), schools bunch together in terms of real strength regardless of relative ranking, this is true in many people's minds concerning Liberal Arts Colleges.  However, that line is pretty much drawn somewhere between the Top 15 and Top 20.  Schools past that point are pretty much a crapshoot from there through #50.  A school like Union, for instance, may seem "low" at #41, but most would argue that a student graduating Magna or Summa Cum Laude from such a school with a reasonable extracurricular set would have access to most any school they would want or any reasonable job to which a college diploma could lead.  I graduated from Union with a 3.84 and a (relatively low) 160 on my LSAT, announced football, hockey and basketball games, was Editor of the school newspaper, was on the Republican Club, was Vice-President of my senior class and joined a fraternity in my senior year -- and gained entry into Harvard Law School just before I graduated.

My point here is to not get too caught up in the rankings beyond avoiding schools that are far below the schools toward the top of the charts that he might be considering.  You need to find an atmosphere at which HE can excel based on the type of student he is.  I only used Union here as an example to open your mind to the options beyond the small set others are focusing on -- that might lead to your son's best success level.  In my 10 years as a lawyer, I might have run into just a couple more NESCAC grads than other upper Liberal Arts College grads here in New York City -- but it's not an awe-inspiring gap.  If you think your son may fit better at a non-NESCAC school and achieve a 3.8 while playing football with a team he appreciates, then it's probably going to be better for him than to attend a NESCAC school at which he might achieve a 3.3 with the same football appreciation level.  It's never an easy analysis, but I think you understand what I'm getting at overall -- and your son is going to have to communicate with you a bit and visit these schools to make this decision a little less muddled in the longrun.

Best of luck with this -- it sounds like this is one of those almost-can't-lose scenarios for which you all deserve congratulations!

[beast58]

Frank Rossi,

Thank you.. for the insight and for the good thoughts. We are in a no lose spot. He's a good kid who happens to play linebacker really well. His coach wrote a rec that went out to potential schools that the Wes, Bates and Trin all pulled out to show him at meetings. Thats the stuff over and above film that makes a dad smile.

We have looked at and will keep in the mix schools where he gets a great education and have a great football experiance (isn't that the point). At this point we aren't precluding anything he has been contacted and has liked what he has seen at  Rochester ( a definite possibility cause his QB from soph year is there and loves it), Gettysberg, Hobart to name a few. We saw Union and he was so so on it and they have not really been on him and thats ok. The 9-10 game thing and playoffs has little impact on him. Right now it seems like the coach and the campus/kid feel is his guide.

Patriot League wise Bucknell and Colgate are on him hard and we have seen Bucknell and loved it as well as their coaches. We have not been to Colgate but will visit soon. Their LB coach came and had lunch w him this week. He is unsure if he wants 11 games and spring football. "Dad I want to be a student who plays football not a footabll player who takes classes.." That may be him giving himself an "out" from the D1aa stuff but that's fine.  To him 8 games at Wes,10 at Rochester or 11 at Bucknell won't drive the bus either way.

I posted here to just get some thoughts on the NESCAC as the posters here knew their stuff and they do.....and I'm thankful. I know we're not talking about an Ohio State player but he's more important than that to me...lol


ha ha and again thanks to all

[lewdogg11]

I think we are all missing the important question here which is, Does this kid have blazing speed?  If he doesn't have blazing speed (i.e. - <4.2 40 YD), then he is wasting his time in the NESCAC as he will be subject to weekly broken ankles.  If this is the case, he may want to look into a slower conference such as the Liberty League or E8.

[PistachioX]

With your son's size, playing ability, and prep school education ...have you considered Ivy schools?  You indicated Williams, Amherst and Midd  are likely academic reaches for him (as they were for my guy), but don't rule them out altogether - especially since you aren't sure of standardized test scores.... and he has opportunity to boost those scores & take SATII's by fall.  Sometimes the Ivy coaches get more latitude with AdCom, manipulating the Team's aggregate Academic Index, than other elite LAC's get with their specific slot picks.

If you haven't done so already, you would be wise to help your son work toward honing a target list of 2-3 REACH schools 3-4 MATCH schools, and 2-3 SAFETY schools (academic and financial).  Shoot for the moon, be realistic but always keep in mind the mantra, 'love thy safety.'   My guy didn't like Union and Kenyon either... but loved Gettysburg and Hobart.  The latter two were back up plans for him, if his handful of NESCAC choices fell through.  It'll all work out...  in the end, they will bloom where planted.

[beast58]

Brown, Princeton & Yale have contacted him but Yale is form stuff. Brown called our head coach and asked about him cause they like the film etc  Said he needs a big senior year and they would be interested... A Princeton coach called and said the same and they need his SATs.


We have a list like you said and will move thru it as info / camps SATs come in. All very fun for him.....and us .

Can't thank you all enough ...what a great source of thoughts and such. And once he's playing somewhere I can add my own 2 cents

[PistachioX]

It's about to get really crazy for you guys...especially with camps coming up this summer.  If you can, try to limit his camp commitments to the best 3-4 academic match schools/coaches that

have expressed the most sincere interest.  We made the mistake of bringing our son to most of the camps that expressed love.... it became stressful for our student athlete, his sibs and the parents.  Remember, he's still a kid, and will want to enjoy his summer, wotk a PT job and just relax.   A good camp for you to consider may be NE Elite @ Bentley University in July.  Every NESCAC coach, most Ivy and a healthy handful of Patriot, Liberty & Centennial, etc coaches are in attendance.  Great one stop exposure.  Also keep in mind for the multi-day camps... with and without sleepover... you are NOT required to stay for the entire duration, and most will grant a pro-rated fee.  Just let the coach know your intentions, so they know to be on the lookout for your kid on day one (or two or three).  This is especially important, when you consider many of the schools have conflicting dates.

If your son's recent SAT scores come in high enough, he will likely receive slot offers at camp.  The minimum SAT/ACT threshold will differ for each school... some deviation of the mean for admitted students.  The sliding scale communicated will also depend how badly they want him or have a need to fill his position, as well as the specific coach's ability to negotiate with AdCom.  If they want him to try for improved scores... slot offers could come in September.

Keep in mind that every coach recruits dozens -deep, at every position.  So don't be lulled into believing every phone call and enthusiastic meeting you receive is indicative of a legitimate lead.  It's a dance...and a delicate one, at that.  I hope for your family's sake... he can wrap it up early~  Best of luck.

[beast58]

We are not camp crazy this summer: NE Elite(for 2-3 days),  CBB at Bates,  Trin and Wes thats it.....

[ADL70]

A poster with perhaps no more than tertiary connection to the UAA is suggesting that the UAA is looking to expand.  I see MIT and Tufts as possible candidates.  The UAA does not offer some sports Tufts sponsors, would the possibility of playoff participation in football be a lure to the Jumbos?  Do they have rivalries with Brandeis?  Needless to say the travel budget would soar from current levels.

[pg04]

Just from what I know of the conference, I'd really doubt that any team would leave, especially to increase travel costs exponentially.  I also saw there was some thought of Rochester.  I don't think they would leave the Liberty League either.  It just doesn't really make sense. 

[iamhuge]

Tufts will be better this year.

[frank uible]

Once upon a time (before there was such a thing as NESCAC) Tufts was the scourge of New England small college football (in 1956 Tufts beat Harvard, 19-13), based primarily on its strength in the fertile recruiting grounds of greater Boston. I don't know why it can't return to that status.

[Frank Rossi]

Once upon a time (before there was such a thing as NESCAC) Tufts was the scourge of New England small college football (in 1956 Tufts beat Harvard, 19-13), based primarily on its strength in the fertile recruiting grounds of greater Boston. I don't know why it can't return to that status.

55 years later...