FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[banfan]

I think the presidents are walking a fine line.  They have a numbers problem with football because of the large (relative to other sports) size of the rosters.  They are scared to death of the slippery slope.  Although it is difficult to imagine why we do not have 9 games and play all NESCAC teams each year, the Presidents refuse.  Forget about playing outside the conference, that will only cause more speculation about how we would do against Case Western Reserve.  Case has excellent football and is an excellent school but I think is is about 4000 undergrad.  Then after being pressed to fly to Cleveland in order to assert our prowess, what would everybody say if the game was close or, God forbid, we won?  "NCAA Championship here we come!!!!!"

I think it is ridiculous, but I think a lot of our cultural norms are ridiculous.  I am proud that my two boys did not "need" to repeat a grade somewhere along the way in order to get into a school or to play varsity sports in college.  Parents today can't accept that.  The presidents are afraid of the parental/alumnus pressures that are unbalanced.  Unbalanced in their over emphasis on sports vs academics.  I cannot blame the presidents.  It is sad that they cannot add a 9th NESCAC game but, I feel kinda proud to say that "we still do it right" or "we have the strength to withstand the insanity" that is college football today.

FYI, I attended a D1 school and was a walk-on football player.  The $$$s in college sports are wrecking conferences and destroying rivalries that are long standing.  It is interesting that a minor employee of the Hartford Whalers started a company (ESPN) which would lead to the changes (destruction?) in college football.  It is all advertising it is all demographics and it is sad.  IMHO

Now, I have only meat one of the presidents and I have never discussed any of this with him so, I do not have any idea if my assumptions are correct.

[nescac1]

It is a much longer discussion and a bit off topic, but I agree with banfan that money is absolutely destroying college sports (at a higher level), and that the search to squeeze every single dollar out of football program will prove to be very shortsighted.  Yes, everyone wants to be in the SEC, or failing that, the PAC whatever it is, or failing that, the Big 10/12/13/15.  But at what cost?  Many of the great college football and basketball rivalries (Nebraska-Oklahoma in football, Conn-Syracuse in hoops, and tons of other examples) are now or will soon be defunct.  Why will anyone care in the future about games half way across the country, at least at the level fo passion reserved for traditional regional rivals.  And if any of teh fonference ootball dollars ever go away (which might happen if, say, there is a national championship tournament of eight teams or something), all of these schools are stuck with all of the sports spending a ton of money to travel and a lack of fan interest for their conference schedule, not to mention, all the other sports that get dragged along.  It is really awful what has happened to college football, and all other college sports as a consequence.  And of course, it's not like academic affiliation plays ANY role in the conference alignment decisions, either. 

All of this just makes the D-3 model -- schools with similar academic or regional (usually both) profiles competing against traditional, long-standing rivals -- all the more special, as D-1 football becomes more and more of just a minor league for the NFL, with zero relation to the universities that house those franchises. 

OK, rant over.  OH, and by the way, I also still don't understand why no ninth game in NESCAC instead of a scrimmage.  That wouldn't extent the year, add pressure on recruiting, anything: it just makes zero sense!

[frank uible]

9 games / 8 games plus a scrimmage as more emphasis / less emphasis.

[amh63]

I believe that when the conference presidents meet again with new leadership at Bates (have they got a new prez selected yet?), Tufts and yes, Amherst, and new support at Wes., and the topic is presented for a 9th game, the majority will prevail.  It is in the timing and nuts to Conn. College.  This discussion has brought out info that Bates, Conn and yes, Amherst and until recently Wes. were against the 9th game.  I will push for a vote soon.  Money issues will not cause the lost of football in the conference, contrary IMO, it is the need of money that has changed the climate at Wes. wrt to sports in general and football in particular.
I most humbly agree with nescac1 on his point that D3 is the most sane division.  It is interesting to note that in Div 3, there are a number of schools that "recruit" students and support large squads....including JV squads....in particular sports in order to compete on the national level.  Kenyon college in swimming and Wash. U. in women BB. 
Two other comments to muddle the water somewhat.   First, the Amherst softball team did very well this year with a squad of 12 and 6 fy players.  The school hosted a regional NCAA site.  The teams that played in the regional....mostly public colleges....had squads that averaged 20 players.  Quality and not numbers count.  Second, in the "ancient" history of Amherst football, there are several stories of Amherst grads of football fame that went on to play at Harvard while attending "graduate" schools...like law or medical school.  Those were the days before rules and schools like NDame used pros to augment its squads.   

[frank uible]

Your correspondent will be very much surprised should NESCAC change to 9 game football schedules in the foreseeable future.

[watercow]

Your correspondent will be very much surprised should NESCAC change to 9 game football schedules in the foreseeable future.

I will share Frank's surprise. Swapping the 1 scrimmage for a game strikes me as the only remotely conceivable quid pro quo, but even that assumes a world not increasingly pre-occupied with concussions in football. I just don't see the NESCAC presidents going for this, at least anytime soon.

[iamhuge]

Congrats to Tufts on their great Navy seal Graduation speaker. As a father of a soon to be Tufts football player i am proud that they were able to have a young man of great stature address there graduates. I hope these values reinforce the hard work necessary to perform on and off the field. As we go to his high school graduation we look forward to the year to come and the great standards that the nescac sets.

Hope to see you on the sidelines this fall.  My boy was a medical redshirt freshman on the Jumbos last season.  I am very optimistic the program is moving towards some W's this season.  They have a very rigorous off season training program in place now...for starters.

[frank uible]

Once upon a time Tufts was the scourge of New England small college football, crushing Harvard in 1956, 19-13. Is there any reason why they shouldn't return?

[lumbercat]

Does anyone know for sure who opposed the 9th game and/or post season play at the time of the last vote of NESCAC presidents?

I have heard many different accounts over the years that were surprising to most. My memory was that Wesleyan, Hamilton and Bowdoin were not in favor of either. Surprisingly, Colby, Bates and the rest of the conference were basically in favor. Many were surprised by this but I have not heard that this account has been refuted. Maybe someone on the board can relate the facts.

The rumor that Tufts with their 4,000+ enrollment will leave the NESCAC for the UAA (U Chicago, Case Western, Carnegie Mellon, Rochester) still prevails in the Greater Boston (Medford) area.

Makes no sense to me but my connections at Tufts insist that Tufts as a larger institution is a "University" with a broader (not better) academic focus than the smaller NESACAC schools. The UAA includes some very impressive schools with divergence in many other areas beyond many of the NESCAC colleges.  As my friend put it, the cost of travel in the conference is not an issue as the brutal Bus trips to Hamilton and Middlebury would be replaced by flights to Chicago, Cleveland or Rochester that will be easier and are totally manageable financially within the extended Tufts heirachy which includes the large university enrollment along with the other entities involved.......Tufts Health, Tufts Medical school and facilities etc. Tufts is really a vastly different institution compared with the rest of the NESCAC schools.

Tufts faced a dilemma in the 60's and 70's. As pointed out by Frank U they had some successes in football and  competed with larger Boston area schools as long as they could. They were damn good, especially in Baseball throughout the 60's and 70's regularly holding their own with Harvard, BC and Northeastern along with other sports.

When faced with the opportunity of joining the NESCAC or moving to a higher a higher level back in the 60's and 70's they were a "tweener"....not big enough to commit to a higher level (like Holy Cross tried to maintian through the years) so they opted for the NESCAC.  The Jumbos were always dwarfed by the Crimson up the street so the NESCAC was an easy move for them in the 60's and 70's as they were not prepared to accept the challenges of mover to a higher level.  They currently seem more aligned with the Patriot League Schools but given their NESACAC heritage that would be a bit challenging for them at this point. However, the UAA  could be a good match for them in terms of overall academic, athletic profiles and beyond???

Tufts finances were alot different when they aligned themselves with the smaller NESCAC schools but they have grown significantly since. Essentially they made a commitment to a much smaller arena which alleviated the pressure that prevailed on their athletic program when they existed in the shadow of BC, Harvard, BU (at the time) and Northeastern. The NESCAC birth in 1972 gave the Brown and Blue an opportunity to move away from the wake of these schools and establish their own identity. AD Rocky Carzo was an instumental force in the early NESCAC days. The Jumbos could win in the NESCAC!!

Following their scheduling identity crises and lack of a conference affiliation in prior years the NESCAC was the best available fit for Rocky and the Jumbos. Surely they would have their way withe the smaller schools in fledgling NESCAC.

Unfortunately, in subsequent years, the larger Tufts Institiution which had competed sucessfully with the likes of mighty Harvard in the 50's and 60's played "down" to the NESCAC level and in fact were mediocre in the  NESCAC for the most part through the years since the early 70's. The disappointment in Medford was that those in the Carzo regime and prior expected their larger school to dominate the NESCAC and that has not happened. Given their lack of success the Tufts administration remained static over the years in accepting their NESACAC affiliation but at the end of the day some say they see a different home for the Tufts afilliation which would be the UAA in which the schools' profiles and overall philosophy seen to closely mirror Tufts. When you look at those schools I agree with my Medford friends but I still can't see them leaving the NESCAC.

Maybe they want to play 9 games and compete for the national D3 title? That seems like a reach for their current Football program but they are clearly capable of upgrades that could bring them to a top D3 Football level which they have enjoyed recently in Lacrosse and other sports.

Maybe they will bring back Vic Gatto and replicate that 1978 NESCAC Football Campionship........in the UAA!

[frank uible]

Tufts would not find the UAA easier pickings in football - the secondary schools in and around Chicago, Cleveland or Pittsburgh produce (because of emphasis) more good D3 quality players than those in and around Boston.

[river]

Once upon a time Tufts was the scourge of New England small college football, crushing Harvard in 1956, 19-13. Is there any reason why they shouldn't return?

Tufts would not find the UAA easier pickings in football - the secondary schools in and around Chicago, Cleveland or Pittsburgh produce (because of emphasis) more good D3 quality players than those in and around Boston.

Tufts would also have to pick up the pace with recruiting and upgrading its program to match up with CWR.   The Jumbos could recruit nationally, as does Case, with players from the East, Midwest, and South, and not just in the Boston area. 

April 10, 2012
Spartan Football Announces First Wave of 2012 Recruiting Class
An excerpt:  "Not only is this one of the largest classes we have had commit at this early of a date, it is also one of the most talented," said [Coach Greg] Debeljak. "We look forward to finishing strong and having one of our best recruiting classes in my time at Case."

Not bad for a team that was already 9-1 in 2011, and UAA champions 4 of the past 5 seasons.  Apparently having an endowment of $1.6 billion doesn't hurt either.

[frank uible]

At last count via wikipedia Tufts' endowment is $1.4B.

[frank uible]

P.S. The CWRU coach is only speaking in comparison to relatively recent time. Once upon a time Western Reserve University went to a bowl game, played in the Mid-America Conference and sent players to the NFL, one of them being of all-pro quality - namely, Warren Lahr.

[lumbercat]

Frank-
Very interesting posts as usual, thanks for your response(s).  Your knowledge of the NESCAC and D3 football in general is far reaching to say the least.
Any idea who was the last NESCAC to team to go a bowl game?

[frank uible]

You are welcome. When one has lived as long as I, one picks up a lot of information of questionable use. I have not researched the subject but would be mildly surprised if any NESCAC college ever went to a bowl game.