FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[banfan]

I am a supporter of Sewanee. It's truly is an outstanding school, with a great history (both academically and in football). My point was that the SAA top to bottom does not have the academic reputation of the NESCAC. When Amherst & Williams are perennially at the top of liberal arts college rankings.  The addition of U Chicago and Wash U as affiliates certainly bolsters the conference on the academic side.

I don't know if Tufts could leave the NESCAC for football only, but the SAA would certainly be a great conference for the Jumbos to join.

Having seen several Sewanee games in recent years I think Tufts could compete against the lower level SAA teams, and would struggle with the Centre's and Millsaps.

Can we stop talking about Tufts and their vaunted football team leaving NESCAC for the midwest or, GOD forbid, the SOUTH!  It makes no sense.  By the way, The Boston Globe had an article the other day that states Tufts is the most expensive college in MA.  The actual amount of $$$ spent by the students is the highest in the state.  Does anyone think that the AD can start flying the football team around the country?  The Centre and Millsap games in Medford will big draws though.  And the Tufts alums can watch their butts get kicked.

[frank uible]

What would be most financially feasible from a football standpoint is Tufts' better emphasis on its recruiting in Greater Boston (defined broadly geographically), a region which is very well populated and consequently relatively strong in secondary school football and in which Tufts has the natural advantage of proximity over its NESCAC opponents.

[Jonny Utah]

What would be most financially feasible from a football standpoint is Tufts' better emphasis on its recruiting in Greater Boston (defined broadly geographically), a region which is very well populated and consequently relatively strong in secondary school football and in which Tufts has the natural advantage of proximity over its NESCAC opponents.

I honestly think their uniforms are horrible looking as well.  They should go Cleveland Browns style instead of baby blue elehpant style in my opinion.  Just Replace the Cleveland orange with white and the baby blue stripes and they should be all set.

vs

[amh63]

"Utes".....nice comment....picking on Tufts' uniforms.  Frank U. is right....again....recruiting in the Boston area or elsewhere is needed.
The U. of Maryland tried to improve its team play and support with new uniforms, etc.  and it did not help much in winning games or rising game attendance.

[Jonny Utah]

"Utes".....nice comment....picking on Tufts' uniforms.  Frank U. is right....again....recruiting in the Boston area or elsewhere is needed.
The U. of Maryland tried to improve its team play and support with new uniforms, etc.  and it did not help much in winning games or rising game attendance.

Yea, Maryland tried the crazy Oregon approach which really only works with Oregon for some strange reason.

And this Jay Civetti is a great guy and will do a good job at Tufts in my opinion.  They have already snagged some top eastern mass recruits for the 2012 incomming class.

[lumbercat]

I agree somewhat with Banfan- the Tufts thing has run it's course. Further, Frank is correct as to where Tufts should be focusing their attention and that is recruiting.
Based on the accounts I have seen Civetti is doing just that and has had a great recruiting year. Recruiting stories can be embellished especially in the NESCAC where there is no formal reprorting of signings so I guess we will wait and see how the Jumbos fare on the gridiron.

The uniform thing is funny. I agree with Johnny Ute,-- go with the Cleveland Browns look. Tufts has pretty much changed their uniform every year since the mid 70's. Brown jerseys, multiple shades of blue jerseys ranging from darker blue to baby blue, different helmets etc etc..... I guess Brown and Blue is a tough combination to work with.

To close the UAA rumors it appears that the movement of the 4 UAA football schools to the PAA and the Southern Athletic Conference ends the speculation.  While it was a drastic theory which seemed unlikely, total dismissal of the idea as making no sense at all was not correct either. It wasn't totally crazy.

There were 4 prestigious national Universities (Case, Chicago, Carnegie and Wash) in a four team football conference that were looking for a solution. The concept was to invite similar schools to expand their football conference. Expansion was to potentially include Tufts, Johns Hopkins, Rochester and MIT.

-Each school is a national university with undergrad enrollments of 4-5,000 or more.
-Each school has prominent graduate programs extending far beyond any of the NESCAC schools.
-Each school is extremely prestigious academically. Ironically, of the 8 schools Tufts is ranked near the bottom, at #6 of the 8 schools in US News rankings.
-This move would not have hurt Tufts acdemically and arguably may have been an upgrade for them to an affiliation with a group of great National Universities. Some would view this as a step up for them.
-Athletically they could easily afford the additional travel and this conference affilition would allow them to expand their football roster size to 100+ and bring other improvements to the program for which they have have the resources.
-While they have not been successful in the NESACAC recently the view exisits that NESCAC football restrictions favor the smaller schools.  Tufts is a different situation where 100+ football players comprise a very small percentage of the 5,000 enrollment. With less restrictions this move had some merit as it would  have given them more latitude in terms of ways to improve their football program in pursuit of a higher level without the NESCAC rules that are clearly restrictive to a larger school.
-Is the NESACAC really the best fit for a  "national university" with enrollment double that of their largest NESCAC peer?.... Some say no.

The overall concept was far fetched and seemed unlikey but it did have some legs. It made sense in many ways which is why it seemed to hang around so long.

[iamhuge]

I agree somewhat with Banfan- the Tufts thing has run it's course. Further, Frank is correct as to where Tufts should be focusing their attention and that is recruiting.
Based on the accounts I have seen Civetti is doing just that and has had a great recruiting year. Recruiting stories can be embellished especially in the NESCAC where there is no formal reprorting of signings so I guess we will wait and see how the Jumbos fare on the gridiron.

The uniform thing is funny. I agree with Johnny Ute,-- go with the Cleveland Browns look. Tufts has pretty much changed their uniform every year since the mid 70's. Brown jerseys, multiple shades of blue jerseys ranging from darker blue to baby blue, different helmets etc etc..... I guess Brown and Blue is a tough combination to work with.

To close the UAA rumors it appears that the movement of the 4 UAA football schools to the PAA and the Southern Athletic Conference ends the speculation.  While it was a drastic theory which seemed unlikely, total dismissal of the idea as making no sense at all was not correct either. It wasn't totally crazy.

There were 4 prestigious national Universities (Case, Chicago, Carnegie and Wash) in a four team football conference that were looking for a solution. The concept was to invite similar schools to expand their football conference. Expansion was to potentially include Tufts, Johns Hopkins, Rochester and MIT.

-Each school is a national university with undergrad enrollments of 4-5,000 or more.
-Each school has prominent graduate programs extending far beyond any of the NESCAC schools.
-Each school is extremely prestigious academically. Ironically, of the 8 schools Tufts is ranked near the bottom, at #6 of the 8 schools in US News rankings.
-This move would not have hurt Tufts acdemically and arguably may have been an upgrade for them to an affiliation with a group of great National Universities. Some would view this as a step up for them.
-Athletically they could easily afford the additional travel and this conference affilition would allow them to expand their football roster size to 100+ and bring other improvements to the program for which they have have the resources.
-While they have not been successful in the NESACAC recently the view exisits that NESCAC football restrictions favor the smaller schools.  Tufts is a different situation where 100+ football players comprise a very small percentage of the 5,000 enrollment. With less restrictions this move had some merit as it would  have given them more latitude in terms of ways to improve their football program in pursuit of a higher level without the NESCAC rules that are clearly restrictive to a larger school.
-Is the NESACAC really the best fit for a  "national university" with enrollment double that of their largest NESCAC peer?.... Some say no.

The overall concept was far fetched and seemed unlikey but it did have some legs. It made sense in many ways which is why it seemed to hang around so long.

My guess is that both Case and Hopkins would have won a lot of games in the NESCAC last season, had they been in the league.

[frank uible]

Small doubt. Either one probably would have won it.

[amh63]

Several comments on the topic.  First, Rochester is in the UAA now....at least in basketball.. so joining the 4 other schools in football is confusing me.
Second, Johns Hopkins does play a questionable level of football, IMHO.  Historically, the players on the football team  used to play to keep in shape for their Div. 1 lacrosse team.  Today, the lacrosse player tend to keep in shape by other means and are quicker, etc. than players that play Div. 3 football.  I have seen a number of the games in the league that Hopkins play in and the level of play compared with the NESCAC is the same.

[frank uible]

Johns Hopkins' regular season football record last year was 10-0, ranking it 18th in the final d3football national poll for 2011.

[Shoreman]

Rochester is a member of the Liberty League (at least for football), Hopkins had a great season last year in a pretty tough league, (lots of good academic school with many PA players). Hopkins lost in the first round of the playoffs to always tough St. John Fisher.

[lumbercat]

The four football playing schools in the UAA were Chicago, Case, Washington and Carnegie Mellon. They have all departed for new football conference affiliations beginning next fall.

[Pat Coleman]

Several comments on the topic.  First, Rochester is in the UAA now....at least in basketball.. so joining the 4 other schools in football is confusing me.
Second, Johns Hopkins does play a questionable level of football, IMHO.  Historically, the players on the football team  used to play to keep in shape for their Div. 1 lacrosse team.  Today, the lacrosse player tend to keep in shape by other means and are quicker, etc. than players that play Div. 3 football.  I have seen a number of the games in the league that Hopkins play in and the level of play compared with the NESCAC is the same.

Since about 1994 or so, athletes playing a D-I sport at a school cannot also play in any Division III sport at said school.

In my mind's eye (and having seen many more Centennial games in person than NESCAC games), the bottom teams in the Centennial are indeed comparable with the NESCAC.

[pumkinattack]

If they're receiving athletic aid.  Hobart's had a ton of kids play both since 94, but we can't give athletic scholarships due to a NCAA ruling of our multiple appeals.  We've had many DI/DIII players over the past decade and will continue to do so unless the NCAA allows athletic scholarships.  There's an LB coming in from Tottenville (NY) next year who will be doing both (assuming he makes the lax team - is a HS AA this year, but not a long history in that sport and many HS AA's get cut).   

[Pat Coleman]

Fair enough. There aren't many schools where the situation is D-III/D-I non-scholarship so I was not as up on it. Not the same situation at Johns Hopkins, however.