FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[lumbercat]

Gee, I thought it would be a clear step up, a no-brainer, for all the coaches named with the exception of Maloney at U Chicago.
My guess is that any NESCAC head coaching position would be more lucrative than the head job at Endicott, WNE or Alfred though I have no specific data to support my opinion.

Maloney has done a reasonably good job at Chicago but evidently has New England roots. My original thought was that it may be a step down for him from the UAA which seems to have been identified as a superior brand of Football when compared with the NESCAC. I don't necessarily agree but that seemed to be the conclusion of most in recent discussions on this board so his potential movement from the UAA to NESCAC seems a little puzzling.

[Pat Coleman]

As I said, pay. But Hamilton is far less competitive than Alfred and I'm not sure that Wells or Emery couldn't get jobs outside the NEFC with more competitive programs as well.

[frank uible]

At the risk of oversimplification or other downright error, I believe that NEFC HFCs are part time employees while NESCAC HFCs are full time employees.

[banfan]

if the list is true, at least these coaches think being in the NESCAC, with all its warts, is still pretty good and maybe better than most.  Which is why all those other conferences that MAY have better football, kinda look at NESCAC with a wee bit of admiration.

[frank uible]

There is a distinction between better football and better conditions of employment for coaches.

[lumbercat]

I agree Frank and know you have been involved in and have observed the NESCAC for a number of years but I still believe that the quality of NESCAC football is closer to the top end of D3 football than many on this board seem to think.

It would be nice to see one of the stronger NESCAC schools in a scrimmage with one these D3 powerhouses but that won't happen either since the NESCAC starts so damn late. The NESCAC schools are just arriving back at school while the rest of the D3 world is getting ready for their opening game.

[Jonny Utah]

A couple points here.

-There are many d3 head coaches (and position coaches) I know who have basically realized that the college or area they coach at is going to be the last stop for them.  I think mostly this is because of family reasons.  Coaching college football goes two paths.  The path to making it big time (jobs that pay 250k a year plus) is a path that isn't great for families, and it's a path that isn't always guarenteed to make you 250k a year either.  That path requires you to take anywhere from 5 to 10 different jobs all over the country in some instances.  This path also requires you to go up a division, since higher divisions are where the money is made. The other path is a path where guys stay at a place because of their family, or maybe they just like it there and want to be there.  A guy like coach Welch from Ithaca, or Larry Keyes at Mt. union might fit in those categories.  Both coaches probably have made a lot more money moving up the chain, but both coaches have stable jobs at places they obviously enjoy.  Dick Farley as another guy like that.  He had a good thing going at Williams, and could have easily moved up and made money, but sometimes it,just isn't worth it.

[river]

There is a distinction between better football and better conditions of employment for coaches.

if the list is true, at least these coaches think being in the NESCAC, with all its warts, is still pretty good and maybe better than most.  Which is why all those other conferences that MAY have better football, kinda look at NESCAC with a wee bit of admiration.

If moving up means more money, it also means greater scrutiny by alumni, fans, and administrators, and thus greater pressure for a head coach to attain a level of achievement commensurate with the greater renumeration.  Perhaps a lower intensity of scrutiny because of solely in-conference competition in the NESCAC provides a safe harbor for coaches nearing the end of their careers or looking for a less stressful environment.  As to whether the NESCAC plays better football, given the limitations on practice and squad size, questionable support by the administrators, and the conference's failure to scheduled other competitive D-III teams, etc., the presumption must be that the NESCAC does not, and it is the NESCAC's burden to prove otherwise.  Anything else is wishful thinking. To quote that famous New England statesman John Adams:  "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

[Pat Coleman]

At the risk of oversimplification or other downright error, I believe that NEFC HFCs are part time employees while NESCAC HFCs are full time employees.

That is a really big generalization but in some cases it's true. It seems to be more often the case at the state schools but I know Skip Bandini was part-time at Curry during that whole playoff run. I have no idea if he still is. And I have no idea if Wells or Emery are full-time. I would have to think Emery is, at least, however, because he moved from Baltimore for that job.

[Jonny Utah]

At the risk of oversimplification or other downright error, I believe that NEFC HFCs are part time employees while NESCAC HFCs are full time employees.

That is a really big generalization but in some cases it's true. It seems to be more often the case at the state schools but I know Skip Bandini was part-time at Curry during that whole playoff run. I have no idea if he still is. And I have no idea if Wells or Emery are full-time. I would have to think Emery is, at least, however, because he moved from Baltimore for that job.

The WNEC job was made full time a few years ago.  I have no idea about endicott.

[Pat Coleman]

JB Wells is listed as publications coordinator and admissions liaison for the department, so he would seem to be full-time too.

[lumbercat]

If I was a coach with a choice between job in the NESCAC or the NEFC I am going to the NESCAC, regardless of of pay.
I don't know about some of the mid west and mid atlantic D3 programs but I do konow that the NEFC cannot hold a candle to the NESCAC in any way.
I know the NEFC very well and know many coaches, players and ex players in that league. It's a fine league but not a par with the NESCAC. Not even close.

[Jonny Utah]

If I was a coach with a choice between job in the NESCAC or the NEFC I am going to the NESCAC, regardless of of pay.
I don't know about some of the mid west and mid atlantic D3 programs but I do konow that the NEFC cannot hold a candle to the NESCAC in any way.
I know the NEFC very well and know many coaches, players and ex players in that league. It's a fine league but not a par with the NESCAC. Not even close.

It depends on what you want to do.  Schools like Curry, Endicott, and maybe Plymouth State and Salve Regina have the base to compete nationally for a national championship.  Coast Guard is a federal institution with federal pay and benefits.  MIT has all sorts of benefits to being a coach there, although their program isn't as committed as others in the NEFC.

I think what people don't get about the nescac is how important it is for local New England football fans.  It gets a lot of press in the Boston area, and the schools are filled with local Boston high school kids.

[fulbakdad]

Plymouth State and Curry are not national contenders....

[Jonny Utah]

Plymouth State and Curry are not national contenders....

I didn't say they were.  I said they have the base to become national contenders.  Plymouth State was already at that level in the 1980s/1990s.  Curry is heading in the right direction as well with a solid staff with some full time coaches there.