FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Jonny Utah]

Now that the discussion of "football" at the D3 level has moved to players versus coaches  and back again, I will add some input.  First, Union college was once among the schools that compose the present NESCAC.  Union decided that they wanted to go Div. 1 in ice hockey and left the conference. (Frank U. suggest that they were kicked out).  Now the question of kids selecting Coast Guard and/or MIT over a 'CAC' school....one is really mixing apples and orange here whether one is talking about football programs or quality of students.  The Coast Guard Academy provides a free ride!...for everyone and that is attractive.  Amherst in the old days played the CGA on a regular basis...even when they had an ex-pro coach Otto Graham(? on spelling here).  It was because of Otto's coaching approach(win at all cost)  that Amherst chose not to play the CGA.  Now with respect to MIT, students select MIT over "CAC' schools for many reasons......rest assure it is NOT due to the quality of the football program.

MIT would win 1 or 2 games a year in the nescac I think.

[frank uible]

Otto Graham was HFC at CGA for two terms (1959-1965, 1974-1975) with a record of 43-33-1, taking the Bears to the Tangerine Bowl after the 1963 season. During the former term I witnessedd some extraordinary tension between Graham and Jim Ostendarp, Amherst's HFC, possibly arising out of the hubris of Graham, an alltime great professional player and a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Ostendarp played briefly in the NFL but as a journeyman.

[banfan]

"Utes" I am curious why a student would go to Curry, Endicott or Plymouth over a NESCAC school?

[Jonny Utah]

"Utes" I am curious why a student would go to Curry, Endicott or Plymouth over a NESCAC school?

No one would ever go to those schools over a nescac school, unless they were getting a free ride for some strange reason like they had a family member that worked there.  And nowhere in my conversations on here did I ever imply that any student would choose those schools over the other.

The original conversation was about coaches, and why they might choose a nescac job over others.

[Jonny Utah]

Otto Graham was HFC at CGA for two terms (1959-1965, 1974-1975) with a record of 43-33-1, taking the Bears to the Tangerine Bowl after the 1963 season. During the former term I witnessedd some extraordinary tension between Graham and Jim Ostendarp, Amherst's HFC, possibly arising out of the hubris of Graham, an alltime great professional player and a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Ostendarp played briefly in the NFL but as a journeyman.

Frank, any good Farley/Ostendarp stories?

[frank uible]

Farley's first year as HFC at Williams was 1987, Ostendarp's last year as HFC at Amherst was 1991. During the overlap years Farley was just starting to get cranked up (in 1987 Williams was 4-4, Farley's only year as HFC, in which he did not win more than he lost) while Ostendarp was in decline quite possibly from the early ravages of undiagnosed alzheimer's - all this not fertile soil for interesting and discreet stories concerning interaction between the two.

[Jonny Utah]

Farley's first year as HFC at Williams was 1987, Ostendarp's last year as HFC at Amherst was 1991. During the overlap years Farley was just starting to get cranked up (in 1987 Williams was 4-4, Farley's only year as HFC, in which he did not win more than he lost) while Ostendarp was in decline quite possibly from the early ravages of undiagnosed alzheimer's - all this not fertile soil for interesting and discreet stories concerning interaction between the two.

Hmmm ok.  For some reason I thought Farley was at Williams longer than that. 

[82slice]

I'm relatively new to this board. My boy will be a sophomore on the Jeff's this year. Any early reads on what this upcoming se arson might look like. What do things look like for the Jeff's repeating?  Who are the primary contenders for the crown this year?  What team will surprise? 

[Jonny Utah]

I'm relatively new to this board. My boy will be a sophomore on the Jeff's this year. Any early reads on what this upcoming se arson might look like. What do things look like for the Jeff's repeating?  Who are the primary contenders for the crown this year?  What team will surprise?

I'm always thinking bates or tufts are going to turn that corner, but I've been proven wrong for another 15 years so don't listen to me.

[frank uible]

Since 2000 five colleges have won at least one NESCAC football season outright or shared, any of such five possibly being in the running this year along with one or two others - none of which seven will I burden with my identification of them.

[banfan]

well Jonny, I guess you misunderstood me.  You just misread my post.

[amh63]

The "Darp" as the Amherst coach was known, played briefly in the backfield for the NY Giants.  More important, he became a friend of Don Shula, a fellow backfield player for the Giants.  Their friendship helped in several Amherst players getting to tryout for the Miami Dolphins.....one becoming a starting linebacker on the undefeated Dolphins team.  That player is now a medical doctor working out of the U. of Penn, I believe.
Last year, Amherst, IMO, had a great senior class that had learned/expected to win.  They were undefeated even with a senior QB that never started any prior game.  This year, Amherst must again find a starting QB in a league where QBs' are critical for a winning season.  They must replace a great RB that led a run dominated offense.  Amherst must also replace an all-american defensive lineman.  Given all that, there are talented replacements available....and a winning season is possible again. 

[Jonny Utah]

well Jonny, I guess you misunderstood me.  You just misread my post.

What is there to understand?  You asked a simple question which had an easy answer.

[lumbercat]

82 Slice-
Best of luck to your son with the Jeffs this year- he is in a great place. I'm not one of the many Amherst followers on this board but I totally respect the Amherst Football tradition. Wish you the best.

Some one was looking for Ostendarp stories-- I can tell you as a member of a team competing against Amherst in the the 70's he was considered an enigma and a football genius. 

Hope I don't ruffle any feathers in Williamstown but my respect for Ostendarp is far reaching. This comes from an old guy who was recruited by Ostendarp many years ago and wanted very badly to don that jersey with the Princeton striped sleeves only to be rejected due to academic shortcomings.

My first memory was the rumor or reality that Ostendarp's teams spent alot more time focusing on the cerebral side of the game than they did on the physical side. They practiced in pads infrequently and spent more time in the classroom than they did on the field. Practices were meticulously planned, conducted at a high key level and were brief. As a member of a visiting team on a Friday before gameday in Amherst only the QB's and receivers came onto the field. Their "workout" consisted of QB's and receivers working on timing, assignments and very precise routes. Preparation seemed to be his hallmark and it worked.

The year was 1977 and I think they were 7-1 or 8-0. They had a 6'7'' tight end that year named Bill Swiacki who was the son of NY Giant great Bill Swiacki Sr. who was a buddy of Ostendarps from his old Giants days. Swiacki was drafted in a late round by the Giants (no surprise) and also drafted in baseball by the LA Dodgers (trust my memory?). He spent a few years in the Dodgers farm system. Ostendarps great connections with the Giants were well kown at that time. Darp also had a linebacker that year drafted by the Giants and played a couple of years in the NFL named Sean Clancy.

Ostendarp was viewed as a genius and an innovator at the D3 level. His teams always were at the top of the league in terms of the least penalties, fumbles etc. He took a totally cerebral appoach to the game which served him so well. His teams played smart and were very well coached. While he was blessed with an immense of talent and intelligence in his athletes he was a genius in terms of producing a great winning tradition in Amherst. He was rumored perennially to have many Ivy League, Yankee Conference and beyond  HFC offers but reamined at Amherst for eternity. I know that Joe Restic brought him to Harvard in a consultants role as part of Restic's multiflex thinktank. He was an extremely well respected football mind in that era.

Some of the many Amherst cronies on the board probably have some of their own first hand accounts but those are my memories as a competitor to those great Amherst teams with Ostendarp at the helm.

[lewdogg11]

"Utes" I am curious why a student would go to Curry, Endicott or Plymouth over a NESCAC school?

Endicott - Beautiful Campus - Decent sports(football, baseball, LAX, basketball), new facilities, and 'charles' from the NEFC boards

Plymouth - Affordable, very fun campus, great ski area.

Curry - Football success, location, affordable, great purple Uni's.


People WOULD absolutely choose any of those 3 schools over a NESCAC school depending on the situation.  The biggest factor IMO is cost.  Not everyone comes from a family that can afford a NESCAC school tuition and as much as people might want to go there, it's just not in the cards.  Personally, I had a few choices over RPI but financially they worked themselves out of the mix.