FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[lumbercat]

Lewdogg11-
Big man, get it- bulldog baby--huge...

[Nescacparent]

Thank you for the welcome.  I have not looked at the board since last week. Hopefully, some day I will have something worthwhile to add. Lumbercat, for the moment I would prefer not to say which school my son attends. Once again many thanks for everyone's informative conversation.

[lumbercat]

NESCACParent: No problem - I only asked the question to see if we may have found a new participant on this board from one of the schools that haven't had previous representation among posters.

[banfan]

nescacparent, it's probably a good idea that you remain in the shadows, then you can say any crazy thing you want.  I, on the other hand, am limited to the extent I can sing the praises of Trinity and point out the udder weaknesses of Williams.  lol ( I crack me up )

Anyway, we need more readers and eventually posters.  Welcome.....

[watercow]

Was going through some numbers and became aware of something about which I am sure amh63 is well aware but was news to me.

Williams has been slowly slipping for a period of time now while both Trinity and Amherst have been rising, at least in terms of wins.  The trend indicates that while Williams had a large lead for the first many years of true NESCAC only competition (since 1992), Trinity has overtaken Williams in the "Championship" era (2000 and beyond) and continues in the past five year period as Amherst also has performed better.

Just wanted to get that out there.

I realize that I'm late to this thread, but wanted to add another wrinkle to Williams' athletic "woes." If you parse the data carefully, what you'll find is that the Ephs' (now-ended) string of Directors' Cup wins was largely (and increasingly) a function of Williams' women teams and athletes. To the extent that Williams athletics has been on a long, slow decline (and, it pains me to note that it has), the decline for male athletes (and teams) at Williams has been comparatively sharper and more pronounced.

[nescac1]

Ummm, Watercow, I don't think that one relatively bad year for Williams athletics, in which everything that could go wrong (weather destroying fields, a few key athletes transferring or leaving the school, some critical injuries to star players across multiple sports, some agonizingly close defeats in many, many key games) did, but Williams still brought home two national titles and finished in the top three or whatever it was of the Director's Cup, is anything to groan about.  Williams is not dominating athletics across the board in NESCAC, and I don't see that happening again -- a combination of a faculty / administration that was never comfortable with Williams' level of dominance, some facilities that have fallen into bad condition (but which are, at long last, beginning to be remedied), severe restrictions in athletic recruiting including lowering the number of TIPS relative to most of its peers and eliminating low band TIPS, and increased emphasis on athletics at a few of its peers are responsible.  All that being said, instead of unquestionably the best athletic program in Division III year in and year out, now Williams has unquestionably one of the top five, along with NESCAC peers Amherst and Middlebury.  Nothing to really go crazy about.  Yes, football has had a rough two years.  But two years ago, the team was 8-0, and that followed a series of 6-2 seasons sandwiched in between another 8-0 season.  Williams, along with Amherst, has had the most undefeated NESCAC football seasons since 2006 (I think Trinity will soon join them in that category).  Williams also beat Amherst, what, four years in a row in football, a streak that ended only a few years ago. 

And remember, Williams is hosting both the men's and women's soccer NESCAC championships this weekend.  Women's cross country just won the NESCAC title and is a strong contender for a national title.  Women's tennis has won five NATIONAL titles in a row, women's crew SEVEN.  Women's and men's basketball teams both look very, very strong this year.  Spring team sports have been a bit of a weak point in recent years, but most people don't really get all that excited, on campus or off, about lacrosse, softball, and baseball in all events.  I think Williams needs to have more than ONE relatively off year in athletics across the board before we begin talking about decline, especially when the school just announced it will be building the best football facility in the conference starting in one year, which should help boost that program.  MIddlebury has always been very strong.  Trinity has always fielded several great teams per year, but then has a bunch of weak ones typically as well.  Amherst has really picked up its game over the past decade, and Wesleyan is now clearly improving dramatically as well.  But Williams is still behind no one, overall, in NESCAC, and right there with Midd and Amherst for the best overall athletic program, at least until the Ephs' have a "decline" that lasts more than one season (and again, except for football, Williams has had a very, very strong fall season in athletics, across the board). 

[amh63]

Something interesting that I found that should provide info to the newbie's on this board about the conference and the seemingly unbalanced performance of teams in the upper tier and the lower tiers.  By going to the google search for NESCAC, there is an item that states the "CAC" history and data via Wekipedia...can't spell.  Going through the list of data, there is a breakdown of the schools and the number of varsity players, the dollars spent in the Athletic department and the amount spent per varsity player.  The info is from the 08-09 year....so it is a bit outdated.  However, the data shows that the upper tier schools with respect to sport performance have the larger number of varsity players and spend the most money.  Leading the pack is Williams in total number of athletes and at the top in dollars spent.  I believe it has a strong relationship to the number of Directors Cups won.

[nescac1]

Actually, amh63, the most recent figures I've seen showed that Amherst was number one in money spent per athlete, and Middlebury first overall in terms of expenditures.  But Williams, Amherst and Midd are all very close in this arena, and unsurprisingly, combine to basically dominate NESCAC athletics, except in a few sports (Trinity in baseball, squash, and football, Bowdoin/Tufts in field hockey and lacrosse):

http://bowdoinorient.com/article/5440

Back to football, anyone have any idea how playable the various NESCAC grass fields will be this weekend?  A muddy field in Weston would favor Wesleyan's physical style of play and possibly negate Williams' speed at receiver, but then again, Wesleyan is a stronger team than the Ephs this year, so perhaps a muddied playing field will introduce an element of randomness.  Seems like Williams is, belatedly, getting the ball in Hartwell's hands more, although Williams should still be producing a lot more through the air with the weapons it has at WR.  Alas, the QB situation seems to remain a big , Murphy has produced fairly well but has yet to face a good defense, which Wesleyan certainly has.  Amherst and Wesleyan are solid teams but after the hurting Trinity put on Middlebury, it would be stunning to see them lose to either. 

[watercow]

nescac1:  Beyond commenting on a prior observation, my point was to note only that the cushion that used to separate Williams from everyone else in the 'CAC (as well as D3 generally) has all but evaporated over the years notwithstanding the heroic efforts of Williams' women athletes and teams. To be sure, the Ephs overall remain easily in the top-tier athletically (you note "Top 5"), and I don't see anything that will change that anytime soon. But the erosion of the cushion remains a "decline," even if only in relative terms. Rest assured, this goes beyond--far beyond--a few "off" football seasons and the past year or so. Trust me, I wish it wasn't so.

[frank uible]

Are the kids having fun by their definition of fun?

[fulbakdad]

One thing I will say about Williams is they can stick by thier man.  I know this is a football board, but I played soccer for thier current coach in 1979.  He left the Community College I was at the next year and has been at Williams ever since!

[nescac1]

Watercow, I'll grant that, but I'd say that Williams hasn't had that sort of "cushion" of which you speak for about a decade (concomitant with massive changes to admissions policies for athletes, not coincidentally).  Decline suggests a steady and inexorable deterioration, or at least that is how I read your post.  I'd call it more of a plateauing, for quite some time now, at a level of consistently one of the most dominant, but not the single most dominant, athletic programs in D-3.  Assuming last year's performance, particularly vs. Amherst in team sports, was indeed a single off year, and Williams stays at the level it's been for around the past decade (including final fours in sports like men's basketball and men's and women's soccer, an undefeated football season every five years or so, loads of NESCAC titles in individual sports, and a few national titles per year), I'd be very happy with that as an Eph fan, particularly because the school does not need to sacrifice its academic standing at the top of D-3 to do so. 

[amh63]

nescac1.....thanks for the Bowdoin article.  It touches on a number of points I have read elsewhere.  I apologize on putting Williams tops in budget...error in that Midd. was tops that year...by about 36K!  Admissions,athletic recruiting, tips, etc. gets complicated as the years go by.  I was involved with recruiting for the MD suburbs around D.C, for many years in the '80's into the early 90's....and experienced a great deal with the changing policies of Amherst Admission directors.  One thing remains the same over time. Getting the best students one can get to apply and hope those students gets admitted.  What is scary is that even when Amherst, in the past decade, has  increased their applications numbers, the admit % keeps decreasing.
The success in sports overall recently is due primarily, IMHO, to the arrival of great coaches.  The arrival of the present AD Susan Coffey. soon saw the arrival of new coaches in WBB, men's soccer, men's tennis, men's lacrosse, etc.  The associated teams soon won conference titles.
Anyway, this is a football board.....hope the field conditions in Williams will NOT lead to another MUD bowl.  Did Williams ever fix the drainage problem there?  Good luck this weekend.
Oh yes..my welcome to the new posters.  One of the new posters appears to be a Williams supporter.  His sharing of photos taken led me to the site of a Williams football player.  But I could be mistaken.

[lumbercat]

The point of playing conditions being relevant in outcomes this weekend at NESCAC venues which are still natural turf may be a valid issue. As the conversion continues to synthetic surfaces this may be an issue as some NESCAC teams develop a comfort level with synthetic surfaces.

Not sure about Weston Field but I know the Maine State Championsip will be decided when Bates visits Bowdoin on Saturday. Bates is a turf team traveling to Brunswick to play on the real stuff. Historically the Bowdoin playing surface is the finest in the conference and has been forever. Here's saying that Bowdoin will never to go synthetic turf and if they do they will be the last in conference to succomb to the trend. The turf at Bowdoind is fantastic. The soil in Brunswick is very sandy and resembles the construction of a golf green at a new golf course. The key to a great natural playing surface is very sandy soil that drains very well. Barring adverse rain conditions the Bowdoin turf will always play well. In past years, on film, the Bowdoin field looked like a synthetic astroturf surface----totally perfect. The Polar Bears ground crew always cut it very tight at 1/4 to 1/2 inch like a golf fairway and it was always fast. The soil conditions at Bowdoin are precisely what they try to reproduce in the construction of new facilities and the reconstuction of old ones including Fenway Park.

More than you needed on grass but what the heck.

That being said I have conferred with a few valued observers of the Trinity-Bowdoin game in Brunswick 2 weeks ago. The Polar Bears quietly ran the ball better than any other Bantam foe this year and overall threw a decent offensive effort at the future conference champs. Some observers felt that wet conditions that day in Brunswick gave a small edge to the natural surface Bears. Maybe the wet surface was advantageous to quick Bowdoin scatback Donarumma  while making the reactive efforts of the big Bantam D a shade more difficult given the slick conditions??? Regardless, I don't beleive anyone moved the ball better this year than the Black and White did against the Bantams.

While the big game is again in Hartford this week, those of us closer to the eastern seaboard will graviate to Brunswick for the deciding game in the Maine State Championship series between Bowdoin and Bates at idyllic Whittier Field in Brunswick. Should be a good one.

A spirited NESCAC Football battle followed by a nice lobster dinner, a great way to enjoy a fall saturday in the Pine Tree state.

I'll post my picks tomorrow for the weekend's games---maybe some others will join in this week.....c'mon Banfan lets get the board jumping a little bit. I am 8-2 in my picks over the last 2 weeks. Gridiron is 7-3---we are looking for some competition!!!!

[lumbercat]

My mistake- Gridiron and I are both 7-3.
Based on scores predicted we would be at or very close to these results against the spread. Anyone know where we can catch a NESCAC betting line? Maybe in Amherst or Williamstown there are guys booking action in cofeehouses or brew pubs......