FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[middhoops]

Vandy, I'd like to see a statistical analysis of your last point.  Seventy five players is far more than any coach is going to use in a game, right?  If you have three quality players at each position (and that counts kickers/punters), you'd need 66 uniforms.  Why 100+?  Also note that quality first year players are making significant contributions now. 
It was LSU's second and maybe third string players that beat your alma mater in the fourth quarter.  Do you really think it was the fourth string?

Respectfully and apologetically,

MH

[Panthernation]

Our NESCAC Fantasy Football Week 4 recap: http://sites.middlebury.edu/panthernation/2013/10/19/fantasy-recap-week-4/

More to come shortly.

[Panthernation]

We have three new contributing writers at Panther Nation, who are helping us more extensively cover the conference. This week we previewed three games around the league.

The Game of the Year: http://sites.middlebury.edu/panthernation/2013/10/19/nescac-preview-the-game-of-the-year/
Trinity Goes for 50: http://sites.middlebury.edu/panthernation/2013/10/19/n/
Colby vs. Hamilton: http://sites.middlebury.edu/panthernation/2013/10/19/nescac-preview-colby-vs-hamilton/

[Panthernation]

A thought on Bates and the second half of the season for Middlebury: http://sites.middlebury.edu/panthernation/2013/10/19/a-thought-on-bates-and-the-second-half-of-the-season/

[NCF]

Vandy, I'd like to see a statistical analysis of your last point.  Seventy five players is far more than any coach is going to use in a game, right?  If you have three quality players at each position (and that counts kickers/punters), you'd need 66 uniforms.  Why 100+?  Also note that quality first year players are making significant contributions now. 
It was LSU's second and maybe third string players that beat your alma mater in the fourth quarter.  Do you really think it was the fourth string?

Respectfully and apologetically,

MH

Just a quick comment. I think 100 player limits are fine. The WIAC has them and they are one of the top leagues in the country. I think the most important reason for having 100 players is to keep kids in the program. Develop them through a 6-8 game JV schedule, let them dress for home games and gives them the opportunity to learn the system and develop as a player, so that when they are sophs, juniors and seniors they are experienced and confident to step into starting and leadership roles. Just my two cents FWIW.

[Vandy74]

Vandy, I'd like to see a statistical analysis of your last point.  Seventy five players is far more than any coach is going to use in a game, right?  If you have three quality players at each position (and that counts kickers/punters), you'd need 66 uniforms.  Why 100+?  Also note that quality first year players are making significant contributions now. 
It was LSU's second and maybe third string players that beat your alma mater in the fourth quarter.  Do you really think it was the fourth string?

Respectfully and apologetically,

MH

Just a quick comment. I think 100 player limits are fine. The WIAC has them and they are one of the top leagues in the country. I think the most important reason for having 100 players is to keep kids in the program. Develop them through a 6-8 game JV schedule, let them dress for home games and gives them the opportunity to learn the system and develop as a player, so that when they are sophs, juniors and seniors they are experienced and confident to step into starting and leadership roles. Just my two cents FWIW.

MH,

My post was really a very watered down version of one that I researched a while back and never put on board.  NCF mentions several details I omitted most importantly the existence of JV programs to keep the younger-still developing players active.  I did the math on virtually every CCIW school as well as Mt Union, Hobart and many of the schools you and I grew up watching pre-NESCAC Panther squads play like Norwich and Union to name but two.  On average all non-NESCAC teams have 60-70 soph-seniors, which points to your own relevant number of 66 players being a maximum requirement.  If most non-NESCAC teams can usually fill that number with experienced players and no NESCAC team has more than 50-52 to pick from I'm not sure what your disagreement with me is concerning the importance of experienced depth. (LSU, btw, beat Vandy with one of those Billy Cannon clones they keep stored in a freezer in their locker room.)  And I do realize that a few freshman who can make an immediate impact are to be found on NESCAC rosters but that is also true of everyone else's team.  Even blue chip frosh make rookie mistakes that sophs have already learned from.

And of course there is Mt. Union.  106 players on the roster only 11 of which are frosh.  These 11 are not listed on the 73 player Freshman team roster.  And somewhere in this mix of freshmen and superfluous "varsity" players is the JV team.   A NESCAC president who once answered the question of why we don't compete in the football postseason for a friend of mine said the concern was that football would become "too much".  Mt. Union's program is no doubt what he meant but simply removing the 75 player limit so that the "66" don't need to include over a dozen freshmen will hardly result in the football coaching staff running the school.  It will, however, put NESCAC football on a level playing field with everyone else should the decision ever be made to allow postseason participation.   

If I'm missing your point, Cuz, feel free to let me know either here or over a brewskie at Dos Bros.  After you've sobered up from Roctoberfest that is.

[amh63]

Back from dinner with 18 classmates plus many wives, etc.  Enjoyed an error filled Amherst loss to Wesleyan on a beautiful Fall day with no wind.  Amherst OBs had 4 pics, there was a blocked kick and a fumble by Amherst...in a game that I still felt that Amherst was just one play away from a win.  The interception by the Cardinals with 56 seconds to go sealed the win.  Amherst had more First downs and total offense than Wes...but made too many mistakes and turnovers to win.
I and a number of friends chatted with HFC Whalen as the football team filled the buses.  He graciously accepted our congrats by saying he was glad to  have Wes become competative in the Little Three.  He even smiled when I told him I was worried about Williams in Willy town.  He stated that he would try to soften up the EPHS for us. 
My wife made a nice comment when I mentioned the loss as I drove to our hotel...she stated if the two teams played again the game outcome maybe different.  Yes, the two teams are well matched.  The better team won at Pratt field today!
Oh yes...the score..Wes  20. Amherst 14

[middhoops]

Ok.  I capitulate.

[warriorcat]

Beautiful day for football in Lewiston.  It was sad to watch a depleted Bates team (9 starters from the first game were out today) run out of gas against a solid Middlebury team.  Just like the Trinity game, the Bobcats could not hold on to a 17-14 half time lead.  It was frustrating to watch the offense go three and out  on nearly every series in the second half.  A tip of the cap to Foote and the Panthers.  They did what they had to to win the game.  Their defense was solid all day and the better team won today. 

For Bates, the season now lines up much like last year.  Up for grabs is the CBB title, a 5-3 season, and a strong finish.  It will not be easy, Colby and Bowdoin are formidable and it is a long trip from Lewiston ME to Clinton NY.  The hope is that as many as four or five of the injured/sick players will be back next week. 

[nescac1]

Nice to see the Ephs finally win one.  Obviously it has not been the year anyone in Williamstown expected but there at least have been some positive signs for the future the last few weeks (including the Midd game, where Williams suffered a few bad breaks but easily could have won, they outplayed Midd for much of the game).  Adam Marske has given them solid (not spectacular, not perfect, but at least solid, which is a big improvement) QB play the last few weeks.  The offensive line play has gone from abysmal to mediocre.  Considering that there are no seniors on the line and several sophomore and first-year players earning time, the oline should continue to improve and go from a weakness this year to a strength in future years as guys get stronger and more experienced. 

Williams continues to have a very, very talented core of receivers and tight ends.  They have a lot of different types of playmakers who just haven't gotten the ball often enough in great position ... Steven Kiesel has turned into a very good receiver, he is very adept at breaking tackles and making guys miss after the catch, and has dependable hands.  If he played for Midd, in that system with that QB, he'd be a 1000 yard receiver.  Darrias Sime is a beast out there, very difficult to bring down, he is slowing evolving into a major threat.  TE Alex Way is another physical mismatch.  Williams has not gotten as much out of a few of the senior receivers as anticipated (although Jeff Brewington had a huge game yesterday), but those three younger guys are developing into the key targets for the Williams QBs and all three will be back next year.  Scyocurka has played pretty well, but has yet to have a break-out game and has had a few costly fumbles.  Again, though, he hasn't had a ton of daylight to run behind.  Hopefully the OL can continue to improve as the Ephs will need a much stronger running game to be competitive with Wesleyan and Amherst the last two weeks.  Other than Scyocurka (who while listed as a Senior I believe will be back next year) no non-Senior has carried the ball for Williams this season, so the Ephs will really need to bring in a strong recruiting class at RB. 

Generally, the Ephs have been stronger on defense than offense this year, until yesterday when they gave up way too many big plays to a Tufts squad that obviously is not a major offensive force.  The Ephs were missing two veteran defensive starters yesterday, not sure if or when they are expected to return.  They did do a very nice job vs. Middlebury, for the most part.  The D is also quite young, with only three senior starters (including only one on the front seven), and several first-year players seeing a lot of time now in the defensive backfield.  They finally received the break-out game many have been waiting for from the most talented guy on the defense, sophomore DE James Howe, who had an absolute monster game yesterday: eight tackles, five of which were for a loss, including four sacks.  A lock for NESCAC DPOTW.  Hopefully he can make a similar impact vs. stronger opponents. 

Other than the QB position, which will once again be an enormous question mark heading into next season unless the Ephs bring someone really spectacular in, almost every other key player will be returning.  But the Ephs still have a looooong way to go to get the level of overall play expected in Williamstown. 

On a humorous note:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/greatest-sports-rivalries,34255/

[nescac1]

http://www.cntraveler.com/daily-traveler/2013/10/best-college-rivalry-football-games_slideshow_Amherst-at-Williams_2

Williams-Amherst featured as a rivalry game worth the trip. 

[gridiron]

Awaiting the Amherst preview of the Colby game...so will add some info, repost some previous comments and respond to a comment that has irritated me.
Trinity8-0's comments connecting Capital Campaigns with athletic prowess  is what I call " practical fund raising" for schools that need money to meet their stated educational missions/ goals.  It happens in all divisional levels of schools.  Amherst just finished their Capital Campaign started in 2008, in midst of the "depression".  Their two undefeated football seasons and a National BB championship helped raise 500 plus millions and built a new football stadium..I am sure.
All conference schools are in the Nescac because academics come first.  So when one talks about sport recruits and admissions do we need to be reminded that recruits need to meet academic requirements.  I have previously posted that it does not help the school or the student recruit, if once admitted, a student leaves.  Lost in time and effort all around.  Conference coaches do not want to see their efforts to build teams wasted if students leave because they cannot succeed in the classroom.
Gridiron's need to throw in Amherst admissions practices again..inferring that something " wrong" is occurring irritated me. 
I do not question Gridiron's knowledge on football recruits and their talents.  I do question his position to judge the admission polices of schools in general and Amherst's polices and process in particular. It takes great skill and experience to project a student's ability to succeed in school..to graduate and contribute.
Admission to conference schools is quite competitive ..we all know.  I will now point out that Amherst has the the lowest acceptance rate/percentage in the conference...has had it for quite some time..and along with Williams, has had the highest graduation rate in the country..also for quite some time.

Amh63--Needed to let enough time go by for you to get over being "irritated".  Hope it has passed.

"I do question his [Gridiron's] position to judge the admission polices of schools in general and Amherst's polices and process in particular."

In response, I do happen to be in a position to have specific information on that topic.  You can choose to believe that is not the case, if you so desire.  That said, the notion really isn't news if you check with others close to the NESCAC football programs.

Schools with greater recruiting flexibility today (not just Amherst) are not somehow "bad" people or the football programs dishonest, in my view.  Factors affecting recruiting variables include administration and coaching changes, alumni interests and competitive pressures.  Look around the league today and be certain that the emphasis on recruiting will change over time.  Those with less flexibility today will likely have more in the future and vice-versa.

I'm sure you are a decent guy (a good family guy, father, grandfather, etc.), and we all know you have a strong rooting interest in Amherst .  I'm a NESCAC fan, as well.   I hope you reconsider your view that somehow the Jeffs are "above it all" and are immune to reacting to the competitive pressures that exist in the NESCAC football recruiting world.   Enjoy the advantage while you can—but do not make the mistake of thinking Amherst is somehow different.

Looking forward to lots of football these final three weeks...

[middhoops]

Nescac1, your mention of the Ephs' receivers;  damn.
They are really scary.  Not often do you see a non-scholly program with a couple of 6-5 guys who are fast and powerful.
I lay in bed dreaming about Mac Foote throwing to them........

[dman]

thanks gridiron for putting amh63 in his place in a nice way....

[amh63]

Gridiron....nice to "hear" from you.  I apologize to board posters that my remarks denied them of your opinions.  I have learned not to take posts personally due to little knowledge of the posters.  The point of my remark is what is the inference/purpose of the post.
I am indeed a supporter of Amherst...and in the world of admissions and colleges' educational fundraising, in general...been involved for many decades.  I have worked with a number of admission directors, a number who have gone on to Div 1 level schools...and am aware of the complex ties to school missions and fund raising.  Admissions here deal with HS counselors and alumni.  Admission selections impact more than just sports as you know and impact academic departments.  It is hard to see alumni children turned down,  but nice to learn that the children of friends succeed elsewhere.  I admit my role with Amherst has been in fundraising durning retirement...have not been in the admission area for over a decade.  Not kept up so to speak...and may have missed a "cycle" as you inferred in your last post.
Anyway,  welcome back. 
Last remark.  One of the best things to watch games live is meeting families of the players.  Yes, even the Moms.  Old Alumni get upset over a lost...but NOT to the degree of parents
Forgot...gave a program to an assistant Cardinal coach as he wandered near my class tent..all dressed in red attire looking for one..Bold person.  Turns out he is a former Amherst football player...played for the DARP!  small world.