FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[banfan]

For the record, I don't approve of anyone singling out a D3 player and piling on.  NFL?  Sure.  They are getting the paycheck and it comes with the territory.  D1?  Maybe.  If a kid accepts a full ride for 4 years and then does something really bone-headed, he may be fair game, particularly if the bone-headed move comes off the field.

Refs are definitely fair game.  If you're going to be paid, act professional.  Coaches "maybe", unless the Admissions Department makes it impossible to recruit the players you need to be competitive. 

But every team I ever played on, or any of my kids ever played on, won and lost as a team.  Kicker missed a PAT?  I'd argue it only mattered because the offense didn't score enough, or the defense allowed the opponents to score too often.   Goalie missed a save?  If that decided the game, it's as much on the strikers and the back line as the keeper.  Forward missed a free throw with no time on the clock?  Tough break, but he wasn't the only player on the court.

I wouldn't know about being a good loser.  I don't care that much.  As far as I'm concerned, the Lord's been pretty good to my family.  My kids are in colleges where they are getting a great education, they are able to play sports they love at a collegiate level, and I am able to allow them to "pay to play".  End of the day, that's all that really matters to me.  I'd be equally proud of my kid if he was at 0-7 Hamilton or at 7-0 Amherst. 

Let's let it drop.  You and I clearly have next-to-nothing in common in the way we look at football or parenting.  Hopefully you have some other Trinity parents who will pat you on the back and commend you for the way you played this.  Good luck to your son next week and next year.

Well that was kinda sorta gracious of you and I will stop worrying about being understood.

[banfan]

I disagree with his subsequent post about "accessibility" and why athletes might choose one CAC over another.  Frankly, I think this whole topic of academic standards at Wes and Trin is just a load of BS.  Every program has at least one "dumb jock" and at least one "rocket scientist", and unless you have access to the Admissions file of every single NESCAC athlete, any speculation about whose standards are rigorous and whose are loosey-goosey is just uninformed gum flapping.  It's fine to say you don't like the field at the Coop, the way the Whale conducts himself on the sideline, or the way certain parents comport themselves here.  But implying that an entire team is full of academically challenged players is just wrong.  It's really no different than making a personal attack on one particular player.


BRAVO POLAR CAT!!!

[PolarCat]

It could also be explained by how much the players enjoy their stay on the overnight visits - or the quality of the recruiters, distance from home, rapport with the coaches or any number of other factors.

Add to the list the quality of the athletic facilities (this weekend was my first visit to Whittier Field, and I was shocked by how shabby it was; must really make recruiting a challenge) ... the quality of the food ... the condition of the dorms ... the campus party scene ... and the attractiveness of the co-eds.  (Though I will probably hear from the PC police for calling them co-eds...)

Every kid is different, and those are all valid reasons.  My kid knew the first time he walked on campus it was EXACTLY where he wanted to go, and was thrilled when he got the Admissions read and the acceptance letter. 

Sometimes I think the W-L record is more important to the parents than to many of the kids.

[amh63]

N2018fan......your goals will never happen..especially a two div. conference.  What do you think...we are like the SEC or the big ten!  Just kidding here.  A nine game  will help greatly.  Very possible if the AMH Pez can push it!
Was going to ramble about many topics, but recent posts have redirected me again.  First, I want to thank Polarcat for his TEAM football post.  Like Grey Fox, he got to the key essense of football....a team sport in every way and a community of lifelong friends.
In the rowing sport, Crew is the title of a team sport except for the single rower.  In crew, with and without a cox, every one must "pull" together win or lose.
Now to the every returning "admission" situation.  First, full disclosure...I went to an Amherst when it was all-male, frat dominated social life and sports were important.  Even in a school of less than 1100, and many multi sport students everyone tended to gravitate to small communities.  The football team was a large community...even in the days of two way players.  As Amherst grew in size and then went coed, the question of football players wrt to admissions and overall enrollment remained.  When class size went up to 400 and where over 10 percentage of the males were football candidates, etc.  There were many questions led often by the faculty about standards, unbalanced impact, academic woes.  Several faculty influenced studies were conducted.  In the end...it was found that sport admits graduated at the same rates, performed over four years as well as the other students, etc, etc.  At Amherst and in the CAC there are no courses or majors that a football player can "hide".
Long response to the question of admission standards.  It must again be pointed out that Trinity and Amherst both have the enjoyment of brothers playing against one another..same as with Midd and Bowdoin over the years.  In the case of Amherst and Trinity...Amherst has the lowest admission percentage in the CAC and Trinity has one of the highest.  Unimportant and not relevant stat wrt to the quality of the football teams, imo.
Now to football.  disappointed that the Cardinals did not soften up the EPHS .  Speaking of the kicking game....was WES practicing for the GOTW?  Seems Wes had to settle for what 4 FGs against Williams.  In the WES game at Middletown, Amherst won via FGs.  In the OT, the Cardinals were not happy with their kicking game...so went on 4th down and was stopped on the goal line.  Placement of the ball by the refs were discussed.

[PolarCat]

BRAVO POLAR CAT!!!

Oh, crap.  Just when I was enjoying you and me slinging mud back and forth at each other, we have to start acting like grown ups.

Does this mean you're going to invite me to prom?  And if you do, that I have to accept?   You will have to buy me a REALLY nice corsage if you're expecting any action.   

[nescac2018fan]

Exactly!  Kids choose Trinity because of winning football games and because it is a good school!  This goes back to my original point of a non-competitive league -  the better players, who value football will choose the schools who win - and will further perpetuate the results of the league moving forward.

To further make my point - and to get away from the Trinity situation - I have no doubt that Middlebury takes kids who can't get into Bowdoin -  so it is clear there is a discrepancy throughout the league - and to quantify the impact - if the discrepancy means 5 better players each year - that is 15-20 better athletes on a squad of 75 -  Difference maker?  Absolutely.

With regard to Amherst ( and pre-Kelton Williams) they have a built in advantage due to being a great landing spot for IVY hopefuls - While I am sure they move the admissions needle for high impact players - it is difficult to argue with the academic standings of these schools.

[nescac2018fan]

amh63

I understand the changes I recommend won't happen - but at least a rotating schedule would help  - Not sure it is fair for Trinity to end season with 3 tough games or for Middlebury to play the 2 best teams in the first 3 weeks -

Further, a league can't be great if there are only haves and have not's - and that is what NESCAC football is -

[Bantsfan]

With Trinity still facing Wesleyan on their home field it is possible that they could end up with a 5-3 record.  Using the current logic I assume that means that Trinity has raised the academic bar as of late? 

If Amherst, who shared the title last year, goes 8-0 this year, and who knows, does it again next year (?)  then clearly they are going around looking for good players to come join their program and they will "work" with your grades?   If they do become the dominant force on the gridiron, I look forward to the disparaging/sour grape remarks being aimed at their admission standards - because, is the coaching so much better there - No - games are won and lost on the field by players - and Amherst gets great players - some academically strong enough to go to any school and others that would not be accepted at other NESCAC schools.    ...I read it on the internet so it MUST be true!

[PolarCat]

Long response to the question of admission standards.  In the case of Amherst and Trinity...Amherst has the lowest admission percentage in the CAC and Trinity has one of the highest. 

Ah, but be careful when you drink that Kool-Aid.  I read an interesting article last week about the Admissions process.  Some 2/3rds of the Admissions professionals polled admitted their college did NOT hit their admissions goals for this year.  (Which is anecdotally supported by the fact some of my kids' friends got accepted to big-name colleges in JULY and even AUGUST of this past year, because they had unfilled spots in the incoming class).

The article noted that there is tremendous pressure to encourage applications from kids who are never going to get admitted.  Why?  To keep the acceptance percentage as low as possible, and thereby foster the impression that their college is incredibly selective, and therefore incredibly attractive.  (The "admissions percentage" is technically called the "yield" and the admissions folks want to keep this as high as possible, sending the message that if you are lucky enough to get accepted, you would never think about going somewhere else).

Looking back on my kids' admissions process, I was surprised at the time by the number of unsolicited offers they got from colleges who were willing to waive the application fee if my kids applied.  At the time, I thought, "Wow, College Z really wants my kid, because they see how exceptional he / she is."  I now realize it's equally likely the Admissions officer was just trying to generate more applications that they might not even read, just so they could artificially deflate their acceptance rate.

It may be that Amherst is more selective than Trinity.  But it may also be that Amherst just gets more applications than Trinity, so they reject more and get to appear more selective.  (In my own very small sample size, one of my kids was recruited by Trinity but never applied, because he/she just couldn't get comfortable with the urban setting).

[nescac2018fan]

Bants Fan -

Please.  Your whining is not very attractive - I will make the case that every player accepted at Amherst would be accepted at every other NESCAC - if they were wanted for football. Probably true for Bowdoin, Tufts and Williams as well.

[Bantsfan]

Not whining at all, and I find it rude of you to suggest I was.  If my opinion differs from yours, that doesn't mean stating them is whining, in fact, I am not even disagreeing with the idea that it might be easier to get into Trinity than Amherst.  I have no knowledge of any actions on the part of any of the NESCAC admissions offices.

What I do have an issue with is the accepted correlation that if you're a winning program you MUST be letting in lesser students.  I just want to make sure that if Amherst starts a 15 year long winning streak here that the same logic is applied to them.  Everyone must suddenly agree that they are lowering their standards in admissions... because how else would you explain it?  There is no other plausible explanation! 

And for my FINAL post - thanks to all the posters here, both those that I agree with, and those who make me roll my eyes - I am glad I found these boards.  Reading about all the upcoming games and the opinions on their outcomes was both informative and entertaining.  Good luck to everyone next week.  Win or lose I hope everyone plays their best so they can leave the field feeling good about their performance.

Over and out - Cheers to the class of 2015!   *Happy that the "Pay" part is over, ... Sad that the "Play" part is!

[FourMoreYears]

What I do have an issue with is the accepted correlation that if you're a winning program you MUST be letting in lesser students. 

I can only speak for myself, but I do not think that if you are a winning program you MUST be letting in lesser students.  But I do think every admissions office handles the acceptance of football players in a different way, and that "way" may even change from year-to-year or over a period of time.  Some schools are easier to get into, some schools are more difficult.  It's a great balancing act that the HCOF, the admissions director, the President, and the Board of Directors play at every school in the NESCAC.

Also, there are many factors that go into a winning program. Coaching and tradition come to mind as two important ones.  Every roster in the NESCAC is filled with bright and intelligent young men.  Every roster has players that needed help from the football coach to get into the school of their choice.  Every program has kids that can't handle the academics at the school they chose, and every program has kids that "only" got in because of football that end up on the All-Academic Team or Dean's List.  And one very important thing to remember is that your average NESCAC player is pretty darn bright compared to his peers at other D-3 schools.  It's all relative ...

In the end, you hope for a few things as a parent: That your kid stays healthy. That your kid takes academics seriously.  If they win a few games along the way it's a bonus.  But playing football in the NESCAC is a 40-year decision, not a 4-year decision.  Let's try to keep it all in perspective.  And appreciate the differences in opinions on these boards ... I would wager that if we all ended up at the same tailgater with a beer in one hand and a brat in the other ... we'd get along pretty well.

I've got one more week to watch my kid play. It's been a fun ride, and I'll be sad to see it end.

[nescac2018fan]

I 100% agree -

[Mr.Right]

When Director of Admissions Tom Parker left Williams for Amherst in 2005 the acceptance rate for questionable athletes that got into Amherst went WAY up. He did the same thing at Williams for 5 to 6 years before that. Football, Mens Basketball, Mens Hockey, Baseball and Mens Soccer all benefited at both schools during those time periods. If you could not win with help you were given in admissions during this period you were ravaged by injuries or a very bad coach

[Mr.Right]

It is amazing these days that AD's are getting the hook for under performing football teams. Tufts AD William Gehlig got pushed upstairs for their lack of football success recently. Actually since then Tufts has been getting results. Hamilton's AD was given an ultimatum with the former coach to either fire him or move on himself. Colby's AD got forced out earlier this year and keep your eyes on Melendy at Williams as she is on leave but I know that Kelton is being evaluated at this moment and in the next 2 weeks