FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[gridiron]

I'd be willing to bet the kid who got the most Admissions help at __________ (fill in the blank: Amherst, Williams, Wes, wherever) is still brighter than 90% of the HS seniors in his graduating year.

Bingo.  That is the point.

[AmherstStudent05]

Again, maybe times have changed, but I see no evidence of it.  I certainly see no evidence of Coach Mills getting more slack from admissions in recent years.

Short of calling out specific player situations, in your view, what would constitute evidence?

That's a very fair question.  I have several responses.

First, I have been watching Amherst football pretty closely for 15 years now.  I have not noticed any particular change in the general talent level of Amherst teams.  Sure, certain years have a little more or less talent but in terms of the type of athletes we are attracting, things seem to be pretty steady.  Without doing a scientific study, I think the same can be said for our general prep school and geographic composition.

Obviously, the people best positioned to know are current or recent coaches, admissions officers, players, and parents.  If there is a sense among some reasonable sample of this cohort that Amherst routinely accepts players that Kelton definitely wants but can't get admitted that would be interesting to know.

But I definitely do not accept the idea that Amherst's superior record over Williams in recent years is evidence that Amherst gets more favorable admissions decisions.  Just as I don't accept that Coach Farley's success over us was due to Tom Parker or anyone else in admissions.  Again, this isn't to say that admissions cannot be a factor.  Although it is before my time, I have been told from numerous sources that in the early 90s Amherst employed an Admissions director who was very hard on athletes and legacies.  Unsurprisingly, he/she was evidently not long for the job.  But apparently that did have an impact.  I leave open the possibility that something similar is currently happening at Williams (though that would still be separate from Amherst lowering its own admissions standards for football).  But, from my vantage point (as a complete outsider, I grant you), I think it has more to do with coaching than anything else.

[jumpshot]

amHerststudent05 --

Everyone the least bit informed recognizes the pronounced shift in the culture of athletics/admissions at amHerst in recent years that has produced a mixture of unintended consequences ---football is not at all isolated from participating or experiencing the effects.

If you were a decision-maker at amHerst, you may well have made similar choices in an attempt to re-gain what is proving to be elusive standing among faculty, segments of students, and portions of alumni.

My longstanding advice to the lord jeff nation as part of my relationship with the college is to build on the school's natural strengths and differentiate its brand, rather than chasing perceived competitors, overreaching in poorly executed investments, or catching up with "the flavor of the month."

Don't be defensive ---simply apply those critical thinking skills acquired when you were a student. You may surprise yourself in coming to some valuable insights ....

For the items on which we agree to disagree, I am pleased to know you are still capable of learning ....

[banfan]

Bold, decisive and fearless....

I like your approach and your confidence. Some times it takes more courage to be yourself.

[madzillagd]

The solution to the original problem seems quite straight forward to me. Change Kelton's title from HCOF to HCOL (Head Coach of Life). Eliminate those pesky expectations of football success altogether.

[jmcozenlaw]

I still think the whole argument is over-blown.  I'd be amazed if MIT  bend their admissions standards one iota for their football recruits, and the Engineers did pretty darn well this year.  MIT proved that you can be a rocket scientist and a winning DIII QB at the same time.

I'd be willing to bet the kid who got the most Admissions help at __________ (fill in the blank: Amherst, Williams, Wes, wherever) is still brighter than 90% of the HS seniors in his graduating year.

This board has no snobbery nor elitism
This board has no snobbery nor elitism
This board has no snobbery nor elitism

Repeat it enough and it's true

The "brightness" factor can be soooooooo overrated. Once again, Steve Bisciotti, net worth approaching $3 billion, came from nothing, son of Italian immigrants, no Buffy's, Tad's, Winchester's for siblings, got out of that mecca of higher learning, Salisbury State College, with a 2.6 grade point average and has made his fortune.

Believe it or not, many students who attend SEC schools do just fine when they graduate (and the stories that my friends tell, about their son's at Florida, Clemson, Alabama.........well let's just say that the "talent level", if you catch my drift, is far superior in the Southeast )

There are tens of thousands of examples like this (not billionaire's of course) and one's hunger to succeed, work ethic, internal drive, people skills, street smarts, etc. will trump a sweet degree on many occasions. Read the backstory on Mark Cuban. He would have never gotten into any of the "good schools" in the conference and somehow, he has done just fine.

A good friend of mine grew up with Bobby Carpenter (older heads will remember him) and played hockey at Northeastern. He used to tell me about those times when the frat boys from the "better schools" mocked him because he went to Northeastern. Eddie just retired at 52, volunteers his time up and down the East Coast and has enough money for the next ten generations of his family. A bachelors from Northeastern, no masters degree...........imagine that

Back to our regular programming..............."mine is bigger and better than yours". "Oh yea, that's because my school doesn't let your type in".

Blah, Blah, Blah!!

It is fun though given how quickly the football season ends in New England (other than Concord at DII)

[polbear73]

In the midst of the gloom and doom postings about the prospects and realities of prep schools and colleges giving up football programs, the University of New England announced this week that they were going to start a D3 football program, citing the benefits to admissions and applicant demographics. 

[PolarCat]

To jmcozenlaw:

Of course there are outliers.  There will always be immensely talented kids who do spectacularly well in life without the "benefit" of an IVY, NESCAC or other high-priced degree.  But for every Steve Bisciotti that went to Salisbury State, there's a Mark Zuckerberg who went to Harvard, or Jeff Bezos who went to Princeton. And many other "pretty successful" folks like Hank Paulson (head of Goldman Sachs, and former Secretary of the Treasury) and Jeff Immelt (CEO of General Electric), both of whom went to Dartmouth (and played football there, to boot).

If your 17-year-old son was applying to college, would you tell him "I know you can get into Harvard, Stanford, Bowdoin, Dartmouth and Princeton.  But I'm going to make you attend the local junior college for 2 years, then transfer to Blue Mountain State, because I want you to be a billionaire like Steve Bisciotti"?  Or would you say "I don't know for sure that Blue Mountain State would give you the highest odds of success, so if you can get accepted at an Ivy or a NESCAC, of course I will pay for it."

I'm spending a boatload to send 2 kids to NESCAC schools, so damn straight I am drinking the Kool-Aid.  Tastes pretty good, too.

PS: Last year, my local public high school sent a kid to Harvard, a kid to MIT, a kid to Dartmouth, and 2 kids to NESCAC.  But they also had a half dozen kids who didn't go to ANY college, and a 8-10 that went to junior college, hairdressing school, into the trades, etc.  And at least one of the kids who went to college is back living at home because "college wasn't for me" (which I am pretty sure is code for "I flunked out").  Unlike Lake Woebegone, not all the kids in my town are above average.  So I will stand by my statement that the biggest tip at any NESCAC is better academically than 80% of the general population.

[Nescacparent]

A nice way to settle the Amherst-Williams (who has the most) admissions flexibility debate: Look at the All-Academic NESCAC rosters. Amherst and Williams both led the NESCAC  (20 team members from each team). Congratulations well deserved all around.

[NothingButNESCAC]

A nice way to settle the Amherst-Williams (who has the most) admissions flexibility debate: Look at the All-Academic NESCAC rosters. Amherst and Williams both led the NESCAC  (20 team members from each team). Congratulations well deserved all around.

Good point NESCACParent. All of the talk about whether one school is lowering standards or whatnot can be tiresome, though I believe it is important given that the NESCAC exists because of the school's stated goals of retaining high academic standards. I don't have anything concrete to add onto  besides that. Some of you might enjoy our breakdown of a hypothetical game between the best players on the All-Academic team and those not on the All-Academic team.
http://nothingbutnescac.com/2014/12/05/revenge-of-the-nerds/

[madzillagd]

I wonder with the proximity if NESCAC schools will be one of the first to adopt this strategy.  Helmetless tackling drills to teach proper tackling techniques. 

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/12/04/helmetless-football-practice-university-of-new-hampshire/

[frank uible]

Helmetless football may very well reduce brain and spinal chord trauma but certainly will produce a  big increase in broken noses and lost teeth.

[amh63]

Helmetless football....another name for Rugby from where I sit.

[banfan]

But those are cool injuries Frank. Just use leather helmets without a face mask.

[frank uible]

For many years I did, and I'm missing teeth. My brain has never been any damn good, irrespective of the helmet.