FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[RetiredMule]

Hamfan - I definitely agree that the athleticism needs to be there first and foremost, especially in Hamilton's system.  I do just see concerns when you see some guys outmanned by 10% of their body weight.  Hamilton should be much better going forward under the new coaching staff.  They are doing good things up in Clinton.

Lumbercat - In terms of big interior d linemen, the teams that immediately come to mind are Colby, Amherst, Wesleyan, and Williams.  Given, some of this is scheme driven.  Amherst requires a much larger man to play their nose tackle position to execute their 3-4 scheme.  If I remember correctly, those guys have generally floated in that 280 to 300 range recently.  Colby, Wesleyan and Williams all base 4-3 schemes that require gap controlling men at the d tackle slot.  This has lead these teams to recruit bigger men, for the most part.  While I might have overstated some weights slightly, I know that Colby has had 4 guys in that high range in recent years.  Mike Wincek at 280, Kalu Kalu at 285, Chris Marano at 300 and four years ago Mike Jenkins at 290.  So I think my numbers were skewed by my more specific knowledge of Colby.  But I do know that these four schools tend to target larger d linemen to fit their schemes. 

[lumbercat]

Retired Mule-

Good points.
I feel that quality DL's in the 280-290 range are tough to come by in the Nescac. I will say it looks like  some schools like Colby have been more successful in landing some of those recruits.

Radio silence has been broken in Williamstowm with some recruiting news:

A good looking QB in JJ Dunn from Canterbury Ct. 6'2" 190
Running  Back Noah Sorrento very highly touted from Xaverian, Ma 5'9"  188 - Sycocura (sp.) clone.
OT Jesse Governale EO Smith Mansfiled CT 6'3" 270

[RetiredMule]

Lumbercat-

They are definitely harder to come by for the NESCAC, as are all big guys.  It is tougher to find big men who fit the academic profile of the league, want to go to smaller schools and are not viewed as "developmental" prospects by larger programs just because of their size. 

Another major shift that happens is big d linemen getting converted to o line.  Example from Colby: Mike Wincek started 2 years as a d tackle but his senior season was converted to the starting right tackle on o line because of depth concerns (lots of DTs, not OTs).

[amh63]

Several comments on the info of recent posts.
The latest QB recruit...headed to the Ehps appear to buck the trend of West Coast flow of QBs in recent years.
There was a young assist coach at Amherst, Steven Jellison, that was a big back for the LJs for several years, around 6'3" and in the 240 lb range..  In his senior year to get playing time/contribute, he moved to the defensive side as a DL.  He is from Amherst, NH and came to Amherst with his HS QB.
In my limited knowledge of offensive schemes....I have noticed the sift away from "fullbacks"....often used as blocking backs, etc.  The blockers for RBs has gone to the TEs.  The RBs have gone to "smaller" quicker players to hit the gaps/holes.  Now small backs maybe shorter but at 200 lbs in a 5'8" frame, they are still big to me and carry a big punch...the old momentum theory.  The changing schemes on both sides of the line these days favor quicker more athletic linemen,IMO.
Oh, forgot...the "big" lineman picked up by Williams is interesting to me.  He is a big man that in the years ahead may "grow" to 290 lbs via workouts and weight room.  He is from a HS right smack in the middle of the UConn Storrs campus.  Right next to the music/ fine arts complex.  Why wasn't he picked up by UConn?...a mid-level rebuilding Div1 school.  Too small?  My take...to smart .  Parents maybe connected to the school and wanted a CAC education for their son.

[Jonny Utah]

Several comments on the info of recent posts.
The latest QB recruit...headed to the Ehps appear to buck the trend of West Coast flow of QBs in recent years.
There is a young assist coach at Amherst that was a big back for the LJs for several...around 6'3" and in the 225 range.  In his senior year to get playing time/contribute, he moved to the defensive side as a DL. 
In my limited knowledge of offensive schemes....I have noticed the sift away from "fullbacks"....often used as blocking backs, etc.  The blockers for RBs has gone to the TEs.  The RBs have gone to "smaller" quicker players to hit the gaps/holes.  Now small backs maybe shorter but at 200 lbs in a 5'8" frame, they are still big to me and carry a big punch...the old momentum theory.  The changing schemes on both sides of the line these favor quicker more athletic linemen,IMO.
Oh, forgot...the "big" lineman picked up by Williams is interesting to me.  He is a big man that in the years ahead may "grow" to 290 lbs via workouts and weight room.  He is from a HS right smack in the middle of the UConn Storrs campus.  Right next to the music/ fine arts complex.  Why wasn't he picked up by UConn?...a mid-level rebuilding Div1 school.  Too small?  My take...to smart .  Parents maybe connected to the school and wanted a CAC education for their son.

Yea your pure spread teams will not use a fullback, but if you notice many pistol teams will have a power back in there. 

[nescac1]

lumbercat, thanks.  I posted a partial UNOFFICIAL and clearly partial list of Williams recruits awhile back, I'll repost here.   I've added Governale, who I did not previously list.  The class seems pretty strong in linemen (Austin Thomas is one to watch on the defensive side of the ball,  Salveson (from the same schools as QB Lommen) and Governale have good size on the OL, and Loughran is the third in his family to go to Williams, and his oldest brother was a very good lineman for the Ephs).  Moaney (who I imagine will be converted to a WR or RB), Sorrento, Barber, and Dumont are guys who bear close watching as potential early-impact skill guys, and I imagine that Sorrento and Dumont (a very productive PG at Exeter) will both have early opportunities to be in the mix at TB.  The Ephs could really use at least one OL who can make an immediate impact, although it's pretty rare for frosh OL to end up starting. 

Dunn sounds like he could be in the mix as a sophomore at QB.  The Ephs have two senior QBs on the roster (although Lommen may have another year of eligibility, I'm not sure) and only one returning underclassman, John Gannon, who was third string and saw little time as a frosh.  It's always a question mark whether two-sport athletes end up sticking with football ...


Jaelon Moaney, 5'10, 170 QB, Easton, MD
Karsten Salveson, 6'4 280 OL from Breck (MN)
Joachim Cendergren, 6'2 240 DE from Loomis Chaffee
Eric Smith, 5'9 185 RB Episcopal (Virginia)
J.J. Dunn, 6'2 185 QB  Canterbury
Austin Thomas,  6'2 230 DE from Servite High (California)
Kellen Hatheway, WR Byram Hills (also a baseball recruit)
Noah Sorrento, 5'9 185, RB Xaverian
Amyhr Barber, WR, Gilman (MD)
Chris Dumont, RB, Phillips Exeter
Pat Loughran, 6'2 255 OL, Shady Side (PA)
Jesse Governale 6'3 270 OL, Smith Mansfiled CT
Sebastian Dziadkiewicz, LB, Tabor (also a wresling recruit)
Jack Overholt, 6'1 190 WR, Hill School (also a baseball recruit)
Stuart Read, WR/LB, Potomac School (also a baseball recruit)

[amh63]

Jonny Utah....thanks for the "new" football words/lingo.....spread, pistol, power back!  Plus K...though you do not need it .   I hear the language change but tend to get brain freeze too often these days.

[RetiredMule]

To make it even more complicated, the term being thrown around is an "H" back.  Think a wonderfully convoluted mixture a traditional fullback, a tight end and a wing back.  They have a tendency to move about the backfield at 1-2 yards of depth from tight end to tight end and anywhere between!

Then again a nose tackle used to be called a middle guard in the old school 5-2 schemes, so the whole terminology will probably change in 5-10 years.

[Eagle322]

amh63, I wish I could provide some clarity for you, but there seems to be a "cone of silence" over Garcelon Field.  I was impressed by both Duggan and Radford when I saw them in action last year.  If my memory serves, they both played in the "JV" game when the Bobcats hosted Husson.  (That was an interesting experience, which puts NESCAC in perspective.  I swear the Husson roster was THREE TIMES the size of the Bates roster.  They may even have outnumbered the Bates fans, and it was Parents' Weekend!)

Rumor has it there is also an incoming QB recruit (or maybe it's a transfer) but who knows who will get the starting nod?  I do know that Matt Cannone will be incredibly hard to replace.  Cannone was a warrior and played through injuries time and again.  Pretty remarkable for D3.

The Bobcats have also lost a lot of big linemen, including DiPalma, Eversage, Hundley, and Guinee, and defensive backs like Hild, Gilligan, Brown, Newson, Kelliher and Cuomo.  But rumor has it there are some studs coming in to replace them.  And the strength and conditioning staff usually has the boys tough as nails by the opener.

amh63 and PolarCat: I would look for Dugan to be the starter coming out of camp, barring injury. When Cannone and Dugan were both injured last year, it was slotback Mike Decina who moved to QB rather than Radford who stepped into the role. I think that says enough...

Re: the incoming QB from CA --  he has drawn comparisons to Bates great Trevor Smith '13. He does not quite have the athleticism you would typically look for in a triple option QB but he has the arm strength and enough mobility to open up the run game for the offense. Can make the long throws downfield and to the sidelines that will keep safeties from running downhill at the option. I would look for him and another FY QB who more fits the "option mold" to share time with Dugan this season.

100% chance we see a FY QB playing significant snaps for the 'Cats this year as we continue to learn how hard it is for a QB to play an entire season in that physical of an offense where the QB can be expected to run the ball up to 30 times a game.

[NewtoNescac]

For those interested the Hamilton season preview is out.

http://www.hamilton.edu/news/story/2015-football-season-preview

[amh63]

Random thoughts on a warm morning in the D.C. Area...TWO months before the start of the season on the 26th of Sept!
There are new Presidents now at Middlebury, Bowdoin and Trinity.  They join the recent ones at Conn College and Bates.  If you add the ones at Amherst and Williams who took the leadership roles....you have a very high  percentage of CAC Presidents that have NOT voted on the proposition of a Nine game football season.  With the rejoining of Hamilton into the sports schedule and seemingly more interest at Wes, Hamilton, Tufts and elsewhere...is it time to bring up a vote?
The "new" HFC at Hamilton has been a topic on this board....and one that I have chatted with AUPepband on the Empire8 board.  Hamilton has tried to get the present coach before....a Springfield College grad and a head Coach at Cortland State and Alfred University.  The move to Clinton was a move closer to his hometown and to his last child who entered Cornell U. He has built teams that have gone far into the post season.  His squads at AU were huge with recruiting classes well over 60 plus...all developed with fewer assistants than available in the CAC.  Looking forward to seeing Hamilton teams in the coming years at Pratt Field and in Clinton....note...daughter lives near Ithaca and her family enjoys a jaunt to The village of Clinton for food and football.
Looking over the coaches at the CAC schools...it is surprising the number of assistant coaches who were former head coaches at CAC schools and/ or players. Former Williams players are everywhere!
Looking over the listed recruits going to Williams, I now know why I did NOT meet any football recruits at the recent Amherst DC reception

[lumbercat]

NESCAC1

Here's one to add to your Ephs recruit list-
Tyler Patterson WR/TE Brookline, Ma. 6'4" 225

[nescac1]

Thanks lumbercat.  TE is a another thin position on the Williams roster, Way is an outstanding rising senior who could have a big season, but there is only one other returning player and he saw limited PT last year, so hopefully this dude can play.  I see that he was a good basketball player in high school which is always a good sign for a TE candidate ...

[gridiron]

To several posters' points, it is interesting to note emphasis upon certain positions sometimes changes through the years.  Previously noted middle guard/nose tackle change and fullback going the way of the dinosaurs. TE evolving into an H back/fullback blocker for many schools.  Interesting the NFL tends to use the TE as more of a receiving threat than many at the collegiate level, especially NESCAC.

[RetiredMule]

Gridiron-

I think to your point about the NFL using more passing oriented tight ends than college is about the breakdowns of the athletes who play the position and its history.  Tight ends have historically been a blocking position with receiving coming secondary.  Think of the origins of the tight end as it applies to dynastic college football teams.  Switzer's and Bear Bryant's wishbone, Osborne's triple option in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s.  Tight ends were much nearer to an additional offensive lineman more than an additional receiver.  Even some of the most prolific passing offenses in college football history, the early 2000s Mike Leach Texas Tech teams come to mind, primarily ran with 4 WRs and no tight ends.

The advent of the more pass happy NFL has lead to a desire to seek out TEs who can stretch the field vertically, but how many teams have really found one that can be relied upon?  Gronkowski in New England, Jimmy Graham in New Orleans, Jason Witten in Dallas, Antonio Gates in San Diego, Travis Kelce in Kansas City, and Tony Gonzalez before he retired.  That is 7 legitimate passing threat TEs in recent years.  And a couple of those guys are nearly detriments in the run game.  Now consider that there are 32 NFL teams that are searching for these guys from 773 college programs and they have only been able to find 7 elite level passing threats, 6 of whom played at major D1 programs.  Two of those guys were basketball players in college (Gates and Gonzalez). 

Basically, the summarization of this post is that the type of athlete and this history of the tight end position lends itself to blocking over receiving, especially in the NESCAC where we have trouble getting larger athletes to begin with.  Also to be considered is that this is all a relative scale too.  We have seen our share of great receiving TEs in the NESCAC, Spencer Merwin at Colby and William Sadik-Khan at Middlebury jump to mind.  But those have been few and far between even in more pass heavy recent years. 

I do believe that the hybridization of the TE into the H back is the future of the position as it allows more diversity of roles and alignments.  The H back allows for more interesting schemes and complications for the defense.  Thank you for putting up with my little rant about TEs and their history. That is all.