FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

Hey Pat, what do you believe I think about this subject?  Lol.

I disagree with the above posts.  I compared players that played with my son and against my son in the NEPSAC league where a lot of NESCAC players come from.  I saw players with less talent in that league doing very well in NESCAC.

But there is not much objective comparison to go off of except player performance in HS.  Eyeball comparison is extremely difficult.  The only way is for head to head competition.  Which we all know won't happen....

Well not for some time.

I figured you'd show up and give your take. It takes all kinds of opinions.

[D3pc]

My oldest son is back at Hamilton for last semester where they started school already and I think they do some conditioning testing today.  Unfortunately he has used all his eligibility so I will really miss watching him and the Continentals play.  Meanwhile my #2 son (age only) heads to Middlebury on 9/2.  Very excited for this season!  Being from CNY most of my life, many people do not know about or understand the NESCAC.  Can't tell you all the times my sons or I have had to explain why they have not left early for camp.  Some people have asked if it is real football.  Brings up the question I usually ponder around this time of year - How would the NESCAC teams perform against the Liberty League or Empire 8 teams?

Last night I went to see RPI scrimmage Hudson Valley CC.  My nephew is a freshman DB for RPI.  They have been practicing since 8/15.  I might be bias, but I was not overly impressed with the talent when compared to what I have seen in the NESCAC.  The QB play, skills play and punting was much less than impressive and I could not tell any difference in the size of the linemen.  RPI did have a pretty impressive freshman kicker (and their recently graduated kicker is in the NFL) and the most impressive thing was the 100+ players on each sideline!  But overall, I felt that the talent in the NESCAC was generally above what I saw on the field last night.

While a lot of players from CNY have not traditionally gone to the NESCAC, the ones that do are usually on the upper end of the talent pool coming out of CNY.  Usually All-State caliber players who are trying to go to IVY or Patriot league schools (and usually seriously considered) but just do not have the combo of size, speed and academics to get offered a spot.  Of course the best players from the area are getting some D1 scholarship and IVY or Patriot League offers.

This is not to say that the Liberty League and Empire 8 are not getting a lot of talented kids from CNY.  They certainly are getting many talented players from the area ... especially considering the biases from the area.  But my observations are that the NESCAC is a pretty talented league and teams would do very well if competing in these other leagues.  Biggest disadvantage of the NESCAC would be the 75 player roster limit.

What are the thoughts on this topic from anyone on this board?

Valid Points. However, i will say that traditionally RPI is a .500 team. Having played and coached around the northeast, On an average basis the top team each year from the NESCAC would come in about 3rd in the Liberty League, 4th/5th in the Empire 8, and be around the top in leagues like the NEFC and ECFC.

Yes, numbers hurt NESCAC teams especially with injuries and camp bodies. If you are limited to 75 guys and about 10-15 are dinged up in pre-season, lets say you have 60 healthy guys to practice. Split that up and you have about 30 on each side of the ball. Usually you have your ones and twos going against scout team players, but sometimes you just don't have enough guys to effectively do so, hindering the amount of quality reps.

You also have to remember there is no official spring ball for NESCAC schools...so add that on to the time-spent-on-football difference.

Kids playing in the LL/E8/NJAC etc will forever say the NESCAC doesn't play real football, and the kids playing in the NESCAC will forever say "so what we are smarter." Oh well, enjoy the games!

[PolarCat]

Can we all agree on one thing?  That it would be great if the NESCAC Presidents would allow post-season play so we could "settle" this issue?  I mean, if MIT can go to the playoffs without worrying that their brainiacs' educations will suffer, why can't we?

[NewtoNescac]

I'd love to see the NESCAC in the post season playoffs.

[polbear73]

I would too, but without the aforementioned restrictions. Otherwise,  it's not a fair fight. Realistically,  I think the best we can hope for is a 9th game against the currently rotated conference  opponent. But the logic of that has evaded the Presidents so far.

[hamgrand]

A 9th game would be great, post season playoffs even better.  Wish there was some way to make this happen.

Also, Hamilton's past performance is a big contributor to shaping the local CNY attitudes and perceptions of the NESCAC.  But I think Coach Murray might start to change all that.  I understand he already has attracted some local talent this year, and he has great contacts in the Western NY area where they play some very good football.

Thanks for all the input on this topic.  I have really enjoyed watching my boys play NESCAC football and I think it is a great league.  Lots of tradition and fun, and I am looking forward to the fall!  I also know the Liberty League and Empire 8 are terrific leagues too, especially since some teams from those leagues are ranked in the Top 25 each year.  Just couldn't help wonder as I was sitting in the stands on Friday.

BTW - RPI has one of the best D3 stadium facilities around.  But I also really enjoy all the NESCAC venues as was discussed a few weeks back!

[NewtoNescac]

A 9th game would be great. Playoffs would be great, especially since the NESCAC would be likely underdogs each year. Great story if one of our teams knocked off a highly ranked team. But for me, I love watching everything from Pop Warner to pro football. So I'll take any change that gives us more football.

[frank uible]

The NESCAC change which is least unlikely is the dropping of intercollegiate football by one or more NESCAC  colleges.

[NewtoNescac]

I hope you're wrong, Frank. Successful football contributes greatly to alumni giving. And, it promotes the school name. While the elite academic status of NESCAC is known to "us", things like Sports Channel's Game Day featuring William v. Amherst, goes a long way to broaden the exposure of the NESCAC schools.

[PolarCat]

We already have one CAC without football.  (Conn).  It's not too big of a stretch to imagine another following suit.  If that were to happen, the logical candidate might be a school whose program hasn't had much success lately, doesn't have a long tradition in the conference, and whose long bus rides and overnight hotel stays have a disproportionate budget impact.

I have no information, inside or otherwise, to suggest that may happen.  Just saying that if Frank is correct, it would be a HUGE shock if a team in the upper 3/4 of the standings dropped the sport. 

[polbear73]

I agree, NewtoNescac.  I don't see any school giving up football, at least anytime soon, as even the traditionally weaker teams have demonstrated new commitments to their programs.  PolarCat, it would be a shock to me if even a lower tier football school now playing gave it up. 

[NewtoNescac]

Agreed, polbear73. Hamilton seems to have doubled down on the football program. At least I hope so.

[PolarCat]

I agree, NewtoNescac.  I don't see any school giving up football, at least anytime soon, as even the traditionally weaker teams have demonstrated new commitments to their programs.  PolarCat, it would be a shock to me if even a lower tier football school now playing gave it up.

Just stirring the pot on a Sunday morning, to see who else was here, instead of sitting in a pew singing hymns. 

I am certainly not hoping Hamilton drops the program.  (Though I'm not relishing the never-ending drive to Clinton this November).

[NewtoNescac]

Polarcat, I enjoy things being stirred up a bit. Breaks the monotony. I find nearly all of it to be good natured. Tough and blunt at times, but not mean spirited.

[polbear73]

Your comments and stirring the pot are always welcome PolarCat. Never dull and always thought provoking