FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[amh63]

Quicksilver.....plus K.  It maybe helpful that the football coach along with the AD be part of the "lobbying" group....at the individual schools.  Maybe do some preparation of briefing Papers for their Prez and appropriate admins..like provosts maybe.  The ADs could check with other school ADs on the matter....possible early "count" situation.  Still do not know if a change comes about with just a majority of Prez voting approval.  Guess, Conn College gets a vote regardless.  Equality thing?

[quicksilver]

Amh63 -- I cannot get my hands on anything more current than the 2004 NESCAC manual but I suspect that the rules for making changes in the NESCAC agreement are still the same or at at least generally similar. The agreement sets the bar high for making changes to the NESCAC agreement, with a requirement that 3/4 of the presidents participating in the vote support the proposed revision  (is rounding down is permitted the 3/4 requirement likely means that 8 votes in support of the change are required). If the vote is not unanimous, the change cannot be implemented for a year.  So changing the rules is no easy proposition, which perhaps explains why we are stuck at 8 games, a late start to the season, and no post-season play.

[PolarCat]

I don't think we'd get the Trifecta, but 2 out of 3 might be doable.

Starting the season earlier would mean the schools would have to open dorms, athletic facilities and dining halls earlier, and pay all the employees involved.  Plus it would mean the players would have to leave their summer jobs / internships earlier, and we know how much the 'CAC loves to push those internships.  I can't see that happening in the short term

In 2014, the NESCAC season ended on Saturday, November 8th, while the NCAA Tournament selection show was on Sunday, November 16, and the first round games were on Saturday, November 22.  I'm not completely clear on NCAA rules, but with 9 teams in the conference, the NESCAC champion "should" be an automatic qualifier to the big dance. 

So using 2014 as an example, we COULD have added one more league game on 11/15.  The conference championship and AQ would have been decided that day, and the selection committee could still select another 'CAC team(s) for at large bids the following day.  We would NOT have to start the season early, but all the schools would get to play that magical 9th game.  One (Or two?  Or three?) 'CAC's would play into December, but so what? 

We already go to post season play in Field Hockey, MBB, WBB, men's and women's LAX, crew, etc.  One could almost argue that prohibiting the all male footbqll programs from participating in post season play is reverse discrimination under Title IX.  Historically, NESCAX WLAX teams have missed graduation due to their tournament, and the Bates women won the NCAA Crew Title well after the end of the academic year.

So my pitch would be: no change to the start of the academic year, add one game to the regular season, allow Football the same rights / opportunities afforded other sports.  And then offer an "Oh, by the way...  Do you know how much money MIT raised last year from their share of the gate and broadcast revenue from their tournament run?"

[polbear73]

You raised some really good points, PolarCat and really thought this through as I was working on the assumption that they could easily slap another regular season game on at the beginning of the season. But, as we know, more football related expenditures are not a way to win this argument.  Thanks -plus k.

[quicksilver]

Last year, post-season D3 football play began on Nov 22 and ran 5 rounds, finishing on Dec. 19.  That is a later start and more rounds than the other fall sports like soccer and field hockey so the arguments against post-season football are arguably stronger than they are for other D3 sports. For example, football season could, in theory, run longer than the entire first semester.  I say "in theory" because teams from the east generally did not do well in D3 post-season football play. Of the eastern teams, Hobart advanced the furtherest, making it to the quarterfinals where it was eliminated by Wesley College by a score of 41-13.

[NewtoNescac]

While playoffs would be nice, I'd be happy with a 9th conference game. If they added an out of conference game as well, that would be even better. But then again, I'd be happy with an extra     pre-season scrimmage.

[PolarCat]

Last year, post-season D3 football play began on Nov 22 and ran 5 rounds, finishing on Dec. 19.  That is a later start and more rounds than the other fall sports like soccer and field hockey so the arguments against post-season football are arguably stronger than they are for other D3 sports. For example, football season could, in theory, run longer than the entire first season.

While I appreciate hyperbole, the entire tournament was 5 rounds over 5 weekends.  Every NCAA tournament I know of is 5 rounds.  The difference with WLAX, MBB, etc. is that some of those rounds take place on weekdays.

I would argue that weekday games are MORE disruptive than Saturday games, to players and fans alike.  And clearly, the travelling is the same (though football has more bodies traveling).

But "longer than the regular season"?  No way.  Even inside the Beltway, 5 is still less than 8.

[quicksilver]

Last year, post-season D3 football play began on Nov 22 and ran 5 rounds, finishing on Dec. 19.  That is a later start and more rounds than the other fall sports like soccer and field hockey so the arguments against post-season football are arguably stronger than they are for other D3 sports. For example, football season could, in theory, run longer than the entire first season.

While I appreciate hyperbole, the entire tournament was 5 rounds over 5 weekends.  Every NCAA tournament I know of is 5 rounds.  The difference with WLAX, MBB, etc. is that some of those rounds take place on weekdays.

I would argue that weekday games are MORE disruptive than Saturday games, to players and fans alike.  And clearly, the travelling is the same (though football has more bodies traveling).

But "longer than the regular season"?  No way.  Even inside the Beltway, 5 is still less than 8.

Pretty goofy typo on my part!!! It should say that the football season would run longer than the "entire first semester." Also, some of the other sports have fewer than 5 rounds (men's hockey has 3 rounds for the higher seeds and 4 for the lower seeds, for example, with just 2 weekends of post-season play for the higher seeds) but, aside from the number of rounds, it's considered ok to play 2 games in on weekend for most other sports , meaning that a 5-round post-season can be compressed into 3 weekends for the other fall sports.

Don't get me wrong. Like everyone else, I love to see the possibility of post-season play. But realistically speaking, I don't see the NESCAC willing to consider post-season play that could extend the football season until as late as Dec . 22 and make the season as long as a 14-game season. Much more doable would be adding another game at the other end of the season for a 9-game season. .

[lewdogg11]

Stop sounding like a moron and understand this is only possible for 1 program to even play 1 extra week. The worst case scenario for these cheese eating morons is 1 team will play past thanksgiving and will alert the world of their existence.  Most people understand that he NESCAC is maybe mid LL/E8 and would be privileged to play past thanksgiving. #sweatervestsforlife

[lewdogg11]

For the record I don't hate the NESCAC posters, just the league in general. I know you think you're good and wish you could play more than 6 games. Sorry to the fans and ex players.

[frank uible]

Don't want to splash cold water on the joy of speculation, but we will all be dead and gone before NESCAC changes its posture on intercollegiate football except, of course, the long term possibility of one or more colleges dropping play entirely.

[amh63]

Spent a 'bunch " of time watching football online and on TV....in a more critical way, I hope.  Daughter would come by and look at the screen and comment.....that is a lot of people!  Packed stands at most venues.  Football is being played in the UAA, Empire 8...almost everywhere except for the Ivies and the NESCAC.   What does that tell us?  It sure is not about money!  It is really about the impact to the academic schedule for the most part.....though the UAA, MIT and JHU seem to be the outliers.
Taken all the factors....I feel the energy seen on this board should be channel towards a 9 game season...the first baby step.
Aside from the cold splash of water by Guru Frank U...like the whistle at a pool to stop the fun....it is the academic arguments and not the money ones.  Heck, all the summer events at Amherst are to keep the College supporting staff employed....dining halls, grounds people, etc.  The museums and libraries are open, etc.  Those expenses are already in the budget!....just like pensions and health care, etc.
Frank U....would like you and your fellow football fans at Williams to at least join the "movement" for a most sensible 9 game schedule.
Could you at least share a bit of info wrt to hurdles you see at Williams?

[NewtoNescac]

The NESCAC is the "Little Ivy" Conference. Consequently, if a broad expanded schedule works for the Ivies, it can work for the NESCAC. The NESCAC would benefit in every way should things like the Williams-Amherst football rivalry be widely publicized, just like Yale-Harvard. Football can and should be a positive for the colleges.

[PolarCat]

Stop sounding like a moron and understand this is only possible for 1 program to even play 1 extra week. The worst case scenario for these cheese eating morons is 1 team will play past thanksgiving and will alert the world of their existence.  Most people understand that he NESCAC is maybe mid LL/E8 and would be privileged to play past thanksgiving. #sweatervestsforlife

Hmm.  I for one did not realize there were no "at large" bids in the NCAA football tourney.  I'd assumed it was like MLAX (where 4 NESCAC teams made it to the second round, and 2 to the third), MBB (where 3 NESCAC teams made it to the second round, two to the third round, and one to the quarters) or WLAX, (where 5 made it to the third round, two made it to the semi's and Trinity to the final).  I'm sure there are other examples (maybe even some from the Liberty League), but those three spring to mind.

While I appreciate the education, it's time to start gearing up for next week's NFL games.  Maybe Middlebury's Steven Hauschka will top his 60 yard FG from last week?  I'm sure RPI and the rest of the Liberty League are thrilled to FINALLY have a couple of their own (Andrew Franks and Ali Marpet) playing on Sunday.  Of course, it will be a long, long time before either of their teams sport Super Bowl rings like Hauschka's.  But the Liberty League needs to start somewhere, right?

Your sweater vest is lovely, by the way.  Even with that big ole stain on the front.  (What is that? Tapioca?) 

[frank uible]

amh63: The NESCAC powers-that-be continue, lo these many years, to believe (rightly or wrongly) that any more football for their institutions might be or might become too much football and consequently might detract from more worthy priorities.