FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[polbear73]

Agree that money and admissions are important, but IMO the third and most important leg of the table is the right coach at the top.  Tufts has very recently proven you can break into the top half.  Not easy though.

Very true; not just the x and o's, but being able to recruit given league restrictions and managing a very tough admissions process, regardless of which NESCAC team (some are easier than others).  Relations with alumni, the Administration, AD, faculty, etc.  A successful NESCAC coach must deal with a lot of constituencies not always with the same agenda.  Any coach who can win consistently in this league must be very good. 

[Vandy74]

Grabowski and Polbear....Everthing you say is true but you both fail to mention one more piece to the puzzle.  The Intangible.  TRADITION.  Every program in the NESCAC not listed among the have-not's has at least a semblance of a winning tradition in football.  In a previous post I listed all teams' NESCAC records since the 2000 when it officially became a playing conference.  If I listed the full program records you would see very little change.  Trinity, Williams and Amherst are genuinely elite football programs.  The last time a head coach retired at Middlebury with a losing record was after the 1945 season.  Wesleyan's program stands at 519-502-42.  It's not particularly impressive until you take into account that with it's traditional rivalry with Trinity and it's Little Three status they have played all  three of the conference's best programs every season.  Tufts has lost records for ten of it's seasons, all in the early years of the program's history.  Without those missing seasons their record is 424-443.  They, however, have a program with a storied history.  In 1875 they took on Harvard in the first collegiate football game ever played between two American colleges. In 1913 in a game against Army a Tufts tackler ended the playing career of a guy named Eisenhower.  Tufts has a football tradition to sell to it's recruits.  Colby seems to be a have-not but they have a better winning percentage than Middlebury, although this season's play will change that.  Colby was the 4th best team in the 'CAC over the first six seasons.  They have a 167-155 record against conference opponents.  They have earned the respect to be considered simply in the midst of a bad spell which they can be expected to reverse at some point in time. 

Bowdoin, Bates and Hamilton, however, have never been consistent winners on the football field.  Bowdoin is 394-508-44.  Hamilton comes in at 358-510-47 and Bates stands (with help) at 322-531-47.  You can spend all the money you want.  Hire the best HC in the business.  Those football programs are a tough sell in any recruiting war against those they are up against.  You'll always get the recruit who is willing to accept the challenge of turning a program around but considering the size of a football roster, even the limited NESCAC one, convincing the number of talented prep players needed to succeed in that aim is virtually impossible.  IMO.

[Trin9-0]

Perhaps this has all been covered before but I missed it.  Could you lay out what Tufts and Trinity spend money on to boost football that the other NESCAC schools don't? 
I assume it's primarily facilities oriented but am very curious about what the other expenditures might be.
Thanks in advance.

I'd venture a guess that lumbercat is merely speculating on the amount of money spent by NESCAC football programs. As someone who works in fundraising at a NESCAC school I can tell you that there is very little transparency regarding budgets (especially with regard to athletics) between schools. Most ADs don't have a full understanding of what is spent by sport at other NESCAC schools. I'm not insinuating anything nefarious; budgets simply differ drastically between the schools based on the number of sports offered, whether or not club sports fall under athletics or student life, how schools count fundraising dollars withing their budgets etc. Therefore, I will assume that lumbercat doesn't have a strong grasp of the relative spending for football at different programs but rather the claim is based more on things such as the number of uniform combinations and scoreboards.

With that said, you can certainly look at investments in facilities, the number of coaches on staff and take a guess as to what schools are spending on their programs in relation to others. Keep in mind however, that appearances can be deceiving. Williams has arguably the best football facility in the NESCAC and that has not translated into wins for the Ephs.

Furthermore, given the size of NESCAC endowments Trinity has far less money available to spend on athletics. Below are the endowments posted in the U.S. News and World Report rankings (which not surprisingly mirror the rankings themselves very, very closely).

Williams: $2,265,857,318
Amherst: $2,193,510,735
Tufts: $1,593,019,000
Bowdoin: $1,392,760,000
Middlebury: $1,101,053,639
Hamilton:$919,578,000
Wesleyan: $838,774,000
Colby: $745,957,000
Trinity: $572,033,549
Conn College: $283,941,000
Bates: $261,501,358

As others have said, there are MANY factors that go into creating and sustaining a winning program. I believe admissions is the most important, but having an established tradition of a winning, a campus culture that is supportive of athletics, financial buy-in from the administration and Board of Trustees, and an excellent head coach and staff of assistants, are all necessary components. To simply point to one aspect as a cure-all for a losing program is shortsighted, especially when your assessment of that aspect is merely speculative.

[amh63]

Vandy74...thanks for the history lesson ...plus k. In a quieter time, I will relate an IKE story at Amherst that I believe resulted in the memorial on "Memorial Hill" overlooking the playing fields.
Anyway, there is much history and money numbers wrt athletics on the web.  No breakdown to football and donations to facilities.  I found it years ago and just found it again.  Go to Nescaac,Wikipedia.  Saw some more updates.   The most interesting money numbers relate to dollars per student.  It is to be noted that the info on the site depend on updates from the schools and others and may not be current.
It is not surprising that the two schools with Strong athletic traditions are the two schools with the largest Endownments presently.

[JEFFFAN]

Lots of factors involved in the success or lack thereof in athletics.  Great analysis by Vandy74 about the comparative endowment wealth of the different institutions, which is a major factor.   Another factor, likely related to what Vandy74 pointed out, is simply whether an institution "cares" enough about a sport to commit to it.   An old friend of mine was the admissions director for many years at one of our beloved NESCAC institutions, one that for these purposes would be characterized as not a high performer in football or athletics in general.  My friend loves sports but when I asked him whether he ever faced pressure from the administration or alumni about the woeful performance of the football team, he smiled and said "not once."   And that lack of pressure of any kind made his life a lot easier, he said, because he didn't have to commit X number of spots in the admissions class to football players.   He was able to focus on improving the academic profile of the school - which he did in a major way - without any pressure on athletic performance.   An interesting perspective.

[lumbercat]

Trin 8-0

Good information on endowments. Any discussion of finances at NESCAC begins and ends with endowments.
I maintain that the top tier Football programs spend more on Football than their NESCAC peers.
The money comes from the respective colleges and very well organized alumni groups dedicated to providing additional financial support specifically for the Football programs. At Trinity, Tufts and Wesleyan these group provide significant additional funds for programs that are very well supported by the colleges.

And yes a winning tradition has a lot to do with this- case and point: Trinity.

A major area of disparity is coaching salaries. Talk to those who have been involved in the interview and employment process in the NESCAC.

Recruiting budgets- camps, travel for Head coaches and assistants.

That new look for the football helmets at Trinity is $25,000-30,000 alone. Other schools don't have that luxury.

Facilities:  Amherst Pratt Field 12.5 mil, Williams football facility was the major part of a 22 mil project.
Garcelon field at Bates is a great facility and one of the best places to watch a game in the NESCAC--- cost 2.8 mil.

The current Trinity construction project is a multi faceted project but when all is said and done they will spend significantly on a great Football facility. Tradition is important to those at Trinity so they commit significant funds to support their winning tradition. I respect and admire the Trinity culture but its not the case at some other NESCAC schools where they spend a lot less on Football.

Some have to spend less while others choose to spend less.

No question they are spending significantly more on Football at Tufts compared with Civettis early tenure. Increased support from a new athletic administration and Civiettis work with Tufts football alums had launched Tufts into the NESCAC arms race with the Trinity arsenal.

[JumbosMom]

I'd like to know what the picks are for next weeks games? I am biased but I would point out Tufts only lost last year to Trinity and Amhurst and really should have had Trinity win. I also heard the Trinity RB said he was the best in the Nescac and I would disagree and say that's Chance Brady.   In any case love to hear thoughts and predictions for this weekend . Thanks !

[amh63]

JumbosMom...picks will normally show up in the latter half of the week...but what is a normal week this year, on this board.  About mid- week, the. College students writing for NothingButNescac on the internet will discuss the games ahead and this year, they the writers will make individual picks.  Later there will be comments and pick s by clever and boldposters like Nescacman and recently PolarCat.  Sometimes on blogs like Noontime.com? Will discuss NE D3 football and have guest speakers that will even make picks in CAC games.
CobyFootball...like your suggestion wrt to coaches given a QB a number of plays when it maybe best to receive the ball at the line.  Your bold comment that Colby may/could upset Amherst at Pratt is a mental stretch too far .
Have a little time on my hands today since it is Columbus Day...in MA.  The construction on the new science building ....no dirt movin for me to watch and ponder on
Thought I will get into a little bit of fundraising/finances and even recruiting here, now that the discussion of the games past has stopped a bit.
I was my Class Agent for seven years past...resigning this year for disagreement with the Prez of Amherst.  During my 50th Reunion, I ran a team of classmates  to produce our class reunion gift to Amherst.  It is expected now to produce a generous gift.  My classmates number less than 200 now.  We exceeded our goal by several million.  Just a note of my involvement with Amherst's finances.
The separation of funds for athletics with college operations is not that transparent and with football only needs is even more murky.  Often, as others have pointed out, funds are given to help all students and all sports.  Case in point is the new fitness center at Tufts, a beauty, funded by the Co-owner of the NY Giants.  When Amherst wanted a new Pratt Field for track, football and lacrosse with new locker rooms, etc. benefitting many sports...the new fittness center was built earlier...The Prez simply directed that a plan to fund it to be done and that the actual funds to be gathered separate from any general school fundraising effort...period.  It was done led by mostly football connected persons.  A relative small group funded the 12.5 million construction estimate.  During the construction, a 100  plus year old tree...unique specie...needed to be moved elsewhere.  100,000 more dollars needed.  Chief donor gave the green light.  It is the tree that has a chain fence around it when you visit Pratt Field...next to the football food tent.  After his football playing son had graduated, the chief donor was thanked and the football stands are named for his family.  The chief donor is the father of an Amherst player alum...a DC/MD  family.  His son played football at Landon, a private Md. school.  The school has a fine athletic building for all its students...boys only school.  It is interesting to point out that the athletic Facility at Landon was funded in part by an Amherst alum whose son played football at Amherst...small world at times.  It happened that the player recruited a classmate and teammate from nearby Georgetown Prep who walked out of his repeat  visit to Penn State while waiting to meet the HC.  Seems the assist coach did not or could not remember his name or had his completed files.  Both players were multiyear starters...linemen at Amherst.
I strongly agree with those posters..all?...that the coaches are the key to getting the talent to continue the traditions of winning.  Admissions helps but is secondary in the example to follow.
In the modern era, the men's tennis team recently won two national titles and was comepitative in a number of others.  The tennis team was large and often went West to play the West coast teams at several levels...splitting the team into two to get  PT for the players.  The approach worked and the coach recently left for the job at the US Naval Academy.  Enter a new coach.  Last Spring season, the Amherst team did not reach the level to compete in the post - season, sending a few players only for individual play.  Remember, the tennis team may have only 2 tips for talented student-players. In any case, this year's tennis playing students was a "great haul" according to the tennis world publications that grade players and rank recruiting classes.  Amherst got the TOP recruiting class in D3...number of top rated players going forward.  The recruiting class was rated either the 3rd or 4th class in all Divisions..D1-D3.  Believe it was tradition and the coach...six players.  Though Amherst had a rep for fine tennis courts, it is far behind the best ...the CAC tennis facility at Williams, a relative new one.  The AD admits there is a need to upgrade Amherst's courts...lost at least eight due to new dorms but there is no money available at this time.  Heck, the Fall battle between the Amherst-Williams women's tennis team was moved to UMass -Amherst this past weekend.  Williams tennis team, the reigning national champs crushed the proud team from Amherst.  Saw cars parked by the Amherst tennis courts for a women's soccer game.

[quicksilver]

       . . . . In the modern era, the men's tennis team recently won two national titles and was comepitative in a number of others.  The tennis team was large and often went West to play the West coast teams at several levels...splitting the team into two to get  PT for the players.  The approach worked and the coach recently left for the job at the US Naval Academy.  Enter a new coach.  Last Spring season, the Amherst team did not reach the level to compete in the post - season, sending a few players only for individual play.  Remember, the tennis team may have only 2 tips for talented student-players. In any case, this year's tennis playing students was a "great haul" according to the tennis world publications that grade players and rank recruiting classes.  Amherst got the TOP recruiting class in D3...number of top rated players going forward.  The recruiting class was rated either the 3rd or 4th class in all Divisions..D1-D3.  Believe it was tradition and the coach...six players.  Though Amherst had a rep for fine tennis courts, it is far behind the best in the CAC tennis facility at Williams, a relative new one.  The AD admits there is a need to upgrade Amherst's courts...lost at least eight due to new dorms but there is no money available at this time.  Heck, the Fall battle between the Amherst-Williams tennis team was moved to UMass -Amherst this past weekend.  Williams tennis team, the reigning national champs crushed the proud team from Amherst.  Saw cars parked by the Amherst tennis courts for a women's soccer game.

I was just on the Amherst campus -- a bunch of new tennis courts are under construction on the far side of the soccer field. They are not quite done yet but are fairly far along in the construction process. I did wonder where the Amherst teams are playing for the fall season.  BTW, Bowdoin is the defending national champion in men's tennis . . .

[amh63]

Quicksilver...thanks for the info.  Another thing to check out in my next visit.  Need to kid the AD for giving me old info.  Maybe not....I disappointed him once when he suggested to me that there is a need for a new field hockey announcer booth...I played dumb when I heard the price tag.
it should be an interesting battle this season between the  two men's tennis team.  Amherst's no. 1 player presently is a local DC player...was the Gatorade Player in the area in HS.  Took a semester abroad last year....first semester, I believe...UK in a business program...London School of Economics, maybe.

[JEFFFAN]

In order of interest and impact on the NESCAC race this upcoming weekend ...

(1) Tufts at Trinity - this is when we see whether Tufts is for real as a competitor for the NESCAC title.   Trinity has felt for years that it is the righful owner of the NESCAC football title and that it is pure accident that others have won it, so my guess is that they will be out for blood this year.   That being the case, and with Trinity's great home record over the past ten years, I see Trinity as a 10 point favorite;

(2)  Wesleyan at Bates - to state the obvious, Wesleyan cannot afford another road loss if it wants any chance of staying in the race.   Losses to Tufts and Bates, granted both away, will end the Cards season early with games coming up against Trinity, Middlebury, and Amherst.  I see a very close Wesleyan win - maybe a FG difference - to stay in the race.

Others can jump in here but I do not see any other games this weekend that could reasonably impact the championship race.   Amherst is going to come out very hard against Colby after the tough loss last weekend.   Middlebury at Williams - no reason that will be pretty.  Bowdoin and Hamilton is a game to stay out of the basement for this season.

[lumbercat]

Vandy 74-

You are right- some programs in the NESCAC would not benefit as much from increased funds as Tufts has as a former sleeping giant but they would all improve.

In the long haul  it's a difficult challenge for the rest of the league to compete perennially with the likes of Trinity without committing more resources to their programs in an effort to stay in the hunt.

Tufts and Wesleyan are examples of programs who have ratcheted things up significantly in their quest for the elite level. Both programs have improved significantly since making this commitment.

I believe Tufts has the resources, infrastructure and administrative support to keep it turned up and I think Civetti will continue to do so. I see Tufts as a formidable long term challenge for Trinity and the other elite programs. Significant financial upgrades within the Tufts program have been implemented including a new contract for the HFC. When compared with Samko's final years or Civetti's  early years it's not the same. 0 and 23 was very painful but it served the purpose of inducing the administration to upgrade their financial support of the program which we see today.

It will very be interesting to watch Civetti steer the ship. At this point I think he has a way to go to reach the level of the Trinity program though it will be a good test for Jumbos next week in Hartford. I expect a competitive game but give a decided edge to the Bantams.

MiddPantherPride-

Not trying to make bold statements but it's my belief that Trinity will not lose a game this year. Just my opinion.

[lumbercat]

Jeff Fan-
I think your call on the upcoming weekend games is on the mark- nothing to add, couldn't agree more.

[JEFFFAN]

A few innocuous comments from EJ about the Middlebury game:

http://www.gazettenet.com/Amherst-College-football-win-streak-ends-at-21-5284115

[westcoastDad]

Feel sorry for Colby