FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[JEFFFAN]

Some comments on some topics that again  appear on this board...admissions, football season length, and kickers.
First kicker.  There was only one kicker for Amherst...the one from the S.Francisco area.  He punted, kicked off and kicked FGs, and extra pats.  He missed a FG  in the game...1-3 this season.  No mention of the safety that is 5-5 and made a 52 yd FG.  In reflection, the game could have been 17-17 with Amherst with the ball and just 1:55 min to go.  I know, but you do wonder what has happened to last year's starter wrt to kicking duties and Yes, the DB that can kick 50 yd figs in games.
Next admissions....believe both gridiron and JEFFFAN are forgetting the key statement in the Nescac guidelines...the one that refer to the "bands" that REFLECT the general populace of the student body of the schools.  The SATs, ACTs or whatever scores used by Nescac schools vary and therefore the bands differ.  Remember some IVY schools...Brown...and maybe Bowdoin even did away with such scores in admissions..for awhile?  Amherst and Trinity admission criterias are therefore different even while staying within  the accepted guidelines.  Amherst has the lowest acceptance rate, and one of the largest number of applicants...period.  Discussions of admissions help are inherently considering the student body makeup.
Football season length.  Let's settle on a Nine game season here.  In years pass, there were students that played both football and a winter sport like Basketball.  The Nescac MBB season started on Nov 1.
Many talented student- athletes come to Nescac in order to play more than one sport. Remember a lady who transferred from Havard in order to play three sports...which she did quite well, a star in all three.  Last year, two women on the Amherst fine soccer team contributed on the final- four WBB team.  One is presently playing on the soccer team that is seeking a Nescac title today in Willytown.
The Amherst kicker from SFran mentioned earlier is quite a pitcher on the baseball team.  Even saw some baseball players  working out while watching the men's soccer game yesterday.

Thanks, AMH63, but I referenced the bands in my last email and was the one who sent everyone the links to the Bowdoin Orient articles.  I would be interested in gridiron's assessment of how the school that created the rules, via Tom Parker, somehow doesn't follow them despite the 100% policing that the NESCAC does of itself?

[PolarCat]

Hey, I love a spirited argument as much as rge next guy, but this one is spiralling in a Donald-esque way.  It all started when lumbercat complimented Mills by saying he could be a world beater if he got to work with Trinity Admissions.  Then gridiron rose to the Bants defense by stating Mills gets help at Amherst, too.

It is possible they are BOTH correct.I suspect Trinity has slightly lower bands than some of the other CAC's.  They are all very selective schools, but I think we all know some kids who went to Trin after not getting accepted at Amherst, Williams or Bowdoin.  Lower overall bands logically means there is a bgger pool of prosoective student athletes for the coaches to pull from.

And I do think Amherst Admissions is more athletics-friendly than, say, Bowdoin Admissions.  Doesn't mean any rules are being bent, it may just mean the Dean of Admissions and President are smart enough to appreciate the contribution student athletes make to the campus community.

I'd be more interested in seeing how recruiting budgets and alumni support in recruiting correlate to athletic success.  I suspect there is a much more direct correlation there than any rumored games played by Admissions.

[JEFFFAN]

I think that Amherst in football, basketball, and a few other sports are simply better at recruiting than other NESCAC schools.   No more admissions favors, just better recruiters.   Same for any number of other NESCAC schools - Tufts in lacrosse, for instance - in sports that they are great in.   It isn't a matter of admissions friendliness - it is better recruiting.

[PolarCat]

Again, I would contend that a bigger recruiting BUDGET results in better recruiting.  I know of a couple CAC programs that have next to no budget, and it shows in the results.

And whether or not rules are being bent, don't underestimate the importance of Admissions.  I know one coach who went to bat with Admissions for four 2021's who would have been immediate impact players.  The coach went 0-4.  All four kids are going to a CT NESCAC school next year, where Admissions is more supportive of Athletics.  Its not that the original coach is a lousy recruiter, its the Admissions Department that is responsible.

One doesn't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see that some coaches (like Mills and Devanney) have an advantage over their peers.

[JEFFFAN]

Again, I would contend that a bigger recruiting BUDGET results in better recruiting.  I know of a couple CAC programs that have next to no budget, and it shows in the results.

And whether or not rules are being bent, don't underestimate the importance of Admissions.  I know one coach who went to bat with Admissions for four 2021's who would have been immediate impact players.  The coach went 0-4.  All four kids are going to a CT NESCAC school next year, where Admissions is more supportive of Athletics.  Its not that the original coach is a lousy recruiter, its the Admissions Department that is responsible.

One doesn't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see that some coaches (like Mills and Devanney) have an advantage over their peers.

Did those four players fit within the bands for that school?  Let's be real - the bands for Trinity, as one example, are far, far different from the higher tiered schools.   The average SAT at Trinity is 1926.    The average SAT at Amherst is 2145.   That is a huge difference.   So did those kids fit into the higher school band and if not then they might fit into the lower school band.

[westcoastDad]

Amherst kicker update:

Charlie Hall - Junior and a preseason All-American candidate quit the team

John Rak? #20 (who played safety and PK) hurt his quad and has been out

As one parent mentioned in the stands....inner lockerroom turmoil more than usual this year.  Kids are trying to get him back for next year. 

Also, kudos to Grandpa Spears.  Saw him at halftime of the Trinity game.  His grandson plays WR as mentioned on  another post.  He told me....Trinity has started slow all season.  2nd half team. 

Boy, was he correct on that one.

[amh63]

PolarCat..your points of recruiting coupled with alums and funds do have some merit and coupling, my astute friend.   Where....recruiting.  Alums of top successful teams can assist in recruiting.  Example...Trinity in men's squash.  Trinity in  the sport plays at the top tier of D1 like Harvard, etc and wins a boatload of national titles.  Amherst and other CAC teams play at lower tiers.  Many of the top players are recruited from outside the USA.  The foreign students do not qualify for the aid that is available to Americans.  At Amherst in sports like ice hockey and soccer and even MBB there are players from outside the USA.  At least a decade ago, Amherst set up funds for admitted foreign students.  In addition, Amherst established a "no loan" policy for all students.  The point was that students upon graduation could enter the work place without the burden of student loans...if they wish.  All students are admitted on a "need blind" policy.  No special tip for applicants that can pay the full cost.  Student needs determined upon admission can include cost of travel and books, etc.  That is the advantage of a large Endownmen..over 1.2 million/ student and growing hopefully.  I have a classmate that also sent all three kids to Amherst at the time of my three.  His two sons were great squash players out of top tier private schools.  They were recruited by their father, an alum and a transfer from USC.  His father from Indiana has a museum named after him..I digress.
Top coaches recruit well.  In last season's Williams game in Willytown, two Williams alums were interviewed...their sons were star players, seniors, one a captain on the Amherst team.  Fathers were football teammates!   It was during the time of the departed HCOF.

[OldCardinal]

It is true that NESCAC instituted a "band" system a number of years ago with the bands directly related to the overall admissions standards of the school.  Therefore, it is also true that a young man may qualify for a band at one school, like Trinity, and not at another.  However, it is faulty logic to assume that this automatically creates a larger pool for Trinity.  There are many top student athletes - Ivy level athletes - who are only looking at the strongest NESCAC's academically.  There are many factors that contribute to recruiting success.  Financial aid policies, school reputation (both academically and athletically), recruiting budgets, location, alumni network, etc.  Another one absolutely is the admissions dean's attitude towards athletics.  Tom Parker cared about athletics, without question.  That doesn't mean he did anything wrong or broke any rules. It just made him more likely to make a judgement in a great athlete's favor when it was close.  I don't fault him for that.  There are other deans who are far less likely to do so.   

[lumbercat]

Mills is the benefactor of assistance from Amherst's admissions as well.
[/quote]

Nothing like Trinity, Grid, not even close.

[PolarCat]

Charlie Hall - Junior and a preseason All-American candidate quit the team

Was he p*ssed off that some schmuck on the internet said kickers aren't football players?

[westcoastDad]

I doubt it Polar.  Probably just needed a break.

Congrats on your kid making all of those FGs too!

[PolarCat]

Congrats on your kid making all of those FGs too!

Wrong kid.  I'm not John Baron's dad, I am just a fan.  Impressed by his play, his work ethic, and more importantly his character.  When your team is having a really rough season, it shows a ton of mental fortitude to be able to focus and perform like he did yesterday.  Particularly when there is another another great K on the opposing sideline (Willie Holmquist).  I'm really happy to see NESCAC recognize Baron with the Special Teams POTW.  Classy young man, and I know he will be a huge success in whatever he does after graduation.

[Nescacman]

We know it will bother the board, but we were 5-0 today and pretty much called every game...just sayin'...

One of the many games we watched today was the first half today of Wes/Williams game...two observations....when Wes' offense is operating on all cylinders, they have a ton of weapons and are very, very good. #12 might just be the best QB in the league and #1 might be as good as any offensive player in the league.  Second observation...staggering how bad HCOF Kelton left the Williams program...Coach Raymond has his hands full trying to clean up this mess. Wes literally could have scored 100 points today if they wanted to.

Looking forward to next Saturday's NESCAC Chanpionship game at Wes' Andrus Field in the "Battle for the Birdcare"...should be a good one. Our early pick...Wes 24-Hartford State 21.

That is a bold prediction given the fact that Worselyan has not beaten a team with a winning record this season.

Our early thought on score was solely based on an early poll of our correspondents from across the league (including a Hartford State alum...who actually coined that term). In asking our correspondents why they liked that score they cited two primary factors: Wes seems to be playing a little better right now (especially after 56 in a HALF on the road) and Wes is at home.

We also took a look at common opponents which we think is a better way of looking at this match-up. Looking at common opponents, Wes is 5-1 with 194 pf and 54 pa (32.33 avg pf/game; 9.0 avg pa/game; 23.33 avg margin/game) while 'State is 6-0 with 211 pf and 75 pa (35.17 avg pf/game; 12.5 avg pa/game; 22.67 avg margin/game). Bottom line, looks like a pretty even match up to us.

With that being said, despite our early prediction on the score, if we were setting a spread, we think Hartford State would probably be a one or two point favorite on the road. Let's set the early line at Hartford State -1 and we will take Wes with the points. We love the home dog. More to follow....

[AmherstStudent05]

Apologies if this has been raised before, but does anyone know the last time that the Biggest Little Game in America featured two teams with losing records?  Can't have happened often.

I watched most of the Trinity game on Saturday.  Our defense was outstanding, but the Bantam D just made a couple of huge plays at the end.

While this obviously hasn't been our best year, record wise, I am as excited for Saturday's game as ever.  I don't care what the records are, the Amherst-Williams game is always a battle not to be missed.  Over the years, I have sometimes discussed with fellow Amherst friends whether they would be happy with a 1-7 season if that one win came against Williams.  Of course, the response to this hypothetical is usually, "I would prefer an 8-0 season."  Still, I hope we don't give the Ephs any reason to test this hypothetical on Saturday! 

[Nescacman]

Apologies if this has been raised before, but does anyone know the last time that the Biggest Little Game in America featured two teams with losing records?  Can't have happened often.

I watched most of the Trinity game on Saturday.  Our defense was outstanding, but the Bantam D just made a couple of huge plays at the end.

While this obviously hasn't been our best year, record wise, I am as excited for Saturday's game as ever.  I don't care what the records are, the Amherst-Williams game is always a battle not to be missed.  Over the years, I have sometimes discussed with fellow Amherst friends whether they would be happy with a 1-7 season if that one win came against Williams.  Of course, the response to this hypothetical is usually, "I would prefer an 8-0 season."  Still, I hope we don't give the Ephs any reason to test this hypothetical on Saturday!

The FKA LJ's will should be at least a 2 TD favorite against the Ephs. Williams kids quit against Wes and were very soft...hopefully they toughen up and avoid the first 0'fer in program history (or at least make it a game).