FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[frank uible]

In my boyhood neighborhood the saying went "you don't                                                                                              build a reputation beating up on drunks and old men".

[lumbercat]

[/quote]
And that was a good thing?
[/quote]

Just recalling the way it was- the Trinity arsenal is a bit more docile these days.

[PolarCat]

Must have been in the last century, back before trigger warnings and safe spaces became the rage.

[Nescacman]

So I drove the pike up to Somerville to watch the "Non-Program" from Clinton in their "Mismatch" with the Jumbos. The "Mismatch"was one of the most exciting and entertaining college football games I've witnessed. The faithful of the "Non-Program" filled the visitors stands, and they included many Boston area Continental alums. A huge tailgate feast was presided over by the "First Couple" of Hamilton Football, Jerry and Marie Pitaressi. Parents of players in the "Non-Program" contributed to the huge repast.Remaining food is donated to food missions.
  Today we found out that Joe Schmidt ,"20 was named NESCAC Offensive Player of the Week, and Tyler Hudson, "19, was named Co-Defensive Player of the Week. Tufts is formidable and really has an excellent program. As I've said before this is a league where coaching really matters. The only drop-off I saw from Tufts was in the running game, but they ran the ball better as the game wore on. McDonald stepped out of trouble time after time when he was harassed by the Conts' pass rush. The "Non-Program" D actually had multiple opportunities to win the game in the 4th Q when errant passes by the Tufts backup QB weren't controlled by Ham defenders.
  Turning a program around in NESCAC is not an easy task, to say the least. Control of one's schedule is a way that teams in other leagues can move the process in the right direction . That luxury doesn't exist in NESCAC, so player development and roster control (mostly recruitment) are of paramount importance. From what I've seen, Dave  Murray and his staff have done an excellent job of developing their talent, while bringing in players from some good places. Murray coaches the linebackers, and that position has been a strength ever since he took over. Moving Tyler Hudson to MLB looks like a brilliant move. He runs sideline to sideline, he can blitz off the edge or inside, and he can cover in space. In the past when he played DE, teams could run away from him. They can't do that when he's at MLB.Fellow juniors, Cole Burchill and Sean Tolton both played well against the Jumbos. Murray also brought in a good number of LB's in this year's class, so the Conts should be in good shape there for awhile. The Ham D-line had to replace the entire front four, including Hudson. The four new starters, Alex Ganter, Jeff Martinez, Will Rothschild, and Michael Friedman did a great job of controlling the line of scrimmage. The back end played well. as at least 8 DB's saw playing time. The punter, Billy Wagner had a good day, coming up with a 50 yd. punt when it was really needed.
  Successful player development was even more evident on offense. Kenny Gray '20 showed nice arm strength and a sufficient amount  of poise and cool when pressured. The receiving corps had a huge day. In addition to Schmidt's stellar performance, Christian Donohue emerged as a big time threat from anywhere on the field. Frosh Will Budington and the diminutive Sam Robinson made key plays. Robinson who also runs back kicks, and he showed versatility in both the passing game and in the running game.
  Murray's first two recruiting classes were very NY centric. That makes sense as it's pretty obvious that he and his assistants established excellent relationships with NY high school coaches in previous stints at Alfred and Cortland. NY high school football has been disparaged by some on this board, but NY has a large population, and it's likely that some football talent exists in every area of the Empire State. If you check the Hamilton website, you'll see that each coach has responsibility for recruiting a section of the state. It's no accident that the emerging stars on this team including Hudson , Schmidt, Donohoe, Burchill, Gray, Gutierrez, Leigh, and Palomaki all hail from NY. Like other NESCAC schools , Hamilton will always recruit nationally. Interesting, the class of 2021 includes more players from Massachusetts than NY.
  Rebuilding in this league is really difficult. Hamilton receives a lot of shade on theses pages, much of it without much basis in fact. The early signs for the Conts are good, but they are 0-1, with Amherst, Wesleyan, and Trinity on the (uncontrollable) schedule in the next three weeks.

No need for anyone on this board to disparage NY HS football, the facts speak for themselves (and the same for HS football in Mass and every other state in New England)...that's why the better Teams in this league (Hartford State, Amherst, Wes, Mid, and Tufts) spend a significant amount of their time recruiting from nearby states that actually have good HS football (NJ and PA)...

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2016/6/28/12040586/rankings-state-stars-florida-texas-california

That's why the location of the Maine schools is so bad as it relates to football. No one from NJ or PA wants to drive 6 or 7 hours to visit or attend a school in Maine when they can get a similar education with a winning program 3-5 hours closer to home.

[lumbercat]

So I drove the pike up to Somerville to watch the "Non-Program" from Clinton in their "Mismatch" with the Jumbos. The "Mismatch"was one of the most exciting and entertaining college football games I've witnessed. The faithful of the "Non-Program" filled the visitors stands, and they included many Boston area Continental alums. A huge tailgate feast was presided over by the "First Couple" of Hamilton Football, Jerry and Marie Pitaressi. Parents of players in the "Non-Program" contributed to the huge repast.Remaining food is donated to food missions.
  Today we found out that Joe Schmidt ,"20 was named NESCAC Offensive Player of the Week, and Tyler Hudson, "19, was named Co-Defensive Player of the Week. Tufts is formidable and really has an excellent program. As I've said before this is a league where coaching really matters. The only drop-off I saw from Tufts was in the running game, but they ran the ball better as the game wore on. McDonald stepped out of trouble time after time when he was harassed by the Conts' pass rush. The "Non-Program" D actually had multiple opportunities to win the game in the 4th Q when errant passes by the Tufts backup QB weren't controlled by Ham defenders.
  Turning a program around in NESCAC is not an easy task, to say the least. Control of one's schedule is a way that teams in other leagues can move the process in the right direction . That luxury doesn't exist in NESCAC, so player development and roster control (mostly recruitment) are of paramount importance. From what I've seen, Dave  Murray and his staff have done an excellent job of developing their talent, while bringing in players from some good places. Murray coaches the linebackers, and that position has been a strength ever since he took over. Moving Tyler Hudson to MLB looks like a brilliant move. He runs sideline to sideline, he can blitz off the edge or inside, and he can cover in space. In the past when he played DE, teams could run away from him. They can't do that when he's at MLB.Fellow juniors, Cole Burchill and Sean Tolton both played well against the Jumbos. Murray also brought in a good number of LB's in this year's class, so the Conts should be in good shape there for awhile. The Ham D-line had to replace the entire front four, including Hudson. The four new starters, Alex Ganter, Jeff Martinez, Will Rothschild, and Michael Friedman did a great job of controlling the line of scrimmage. The back end played well. as at least 8 DB's saw playing time. The punter, Billy Wagner had a good day, coming up with a 50 yd. punt when it was really needed.
  Successful player development was even more evident on offense. Kenny Gray '20 showed nice arm strength and a sufficient amount  of poise and cool when pressured. The receiving corps had a huge day. In addition to Schmidt's stellar performance, Christian Donohue emerged as a big time threat from anywhere on the field. Frosh Will Budington and the diminutive Sam Robinson made key plays. Robinson who also runs back kicks, and he showed versatility in both the passing game and in the running game.
  Murray's first two recruiting classes were very NY centric. That makes sense as it's pretty obvious that he and his assistants established excellent relationships with NY high school coaches in previous stints at Alfred and Cortland. NY high school football has been disparaged by some on this board, but NY has a large population, and it's likely that some football talent exists in every area of the Empire State. If you check the Hamilton website, you'll see that each coach has responsibility for recruiting a section of the state. It's no accident that the emerging stars on this team including Hudson , Schmidt, Donohoe, Burchill, Gray, Gutierrez, Leigh, and Palomaki all hail from NY. Like other NESCAC schools , Hamilton will always recruit nationally. Interesting, the class of 2021 includes more players from Massachusetts than NY.
  Rebuilding in this league is really difficult. Hamilton receives a lot of shade on theses pages, much of it without much basis in fact. The early signs for the Conts are good, but they are 0-1, with Amherst, Wesleyan, and Trinity on the (uncontrollable) schedule in the next three weeks.

DC 53
That's a great post and right on the money. I've seen the recruiting results for the Continentals and this guy Murray knows what he is doing...... if they can manage their home territory and steal some kids from the greater Boston area they are doing well. All  NESCAC programs are recruiting nationally but typically its kids at camps who are coming to them. Very comical to read that a NESCAC coach is assigned the recruiting territory of Southern California or Texas...... give me a break. if you can't produce good recruiting results within 250 miles of your campus you are in trouble- anything beyond that is gravy.

Tyler Hudson has been a force in the NESCAC for the past 2 years as a defensive lineman... believe he has been all conference. One of the best in the league, but on this board he flies under the radar as Clinton is synonymous with western Siberia.

Moving him to MLB is a great move by Murray. The kid had 19 tackles at Tufts and that speaks volumes coming from Tufts statisticians who padded the living daylights out of FY LB Holts stats last year. Very impressive to see Hudson log these stats on the road.  At 6'00" 225 after shedding a few pounds he will be a  force at MLB for the Buff 'n Blue.

Responding to NESCAC 1 post earlier, couldn't agree more though I would add Hickey of Amherst as a big time RB and would point to Highsmith at Wes as a guy who will become a dominant back sooner or later.

At the end of the day to be successful in this conference, regardless of your offensive scheme, you need a dominant QB and you need to to be 2-3 deep at the position. if your QB is not close to being the best athlete on your team you will struggle in the  NESCAC.

[P'bearfan]

So I drove the pike up to Somerville to watch the "Non-Program" from Clinton in their "Mismatch" with the Jumbos. The "Mismatch"was one of the most exciting and entertaining college football games I've witnessed. The faithful of the "Non-Program" filled the visitors stands, and they included many Boston area Continental alums. A huge tailgate feast was presided over by the "First Couple" of Hamilton Football, Jerry and Marie Pitaressi. Parents of players in the "Non-Program" contributed to the huge repast.Remaining food is donated to food missions.
  Today we found out that Joe Schmidt ,"20 was named NESCAC Offensive Player of the Week, and Tyler Hudson, "19, was named Co-Defensive Player of the Week. Tufts is formidable and really has an excellent program. As I've said before this is a league where coaching really matters. The only drop-off I saw from Tufts was in the running game, but they ran the ball better as the game wore on. McDonald stepped out of trouble time after time when he was harassed by the Conts' pass rush. The "Non-Program" D actually had multiple opportunities to win the game in the 4th Q when errant passes by the Tufts backup QB weren't controlled by Ham defenders.
  Turning a program around in NESCAC is not an easy task, to say the least. Control of one's schedule is a way that teams in other leagues can move the process in the right direction . That luxury doesn't exist in NESCAC, so player development and roster control (mostly recruitment) are of paramount importance. From what I've seen, Dave  Murray and his staff have done an excellent job of developing their talent, while bringing in players from some good places. Murray coaches the linebackers, and that position has been a strength ever since he took over. Moving Tyler Hudson to MLB looks like a brilliant move. He runs sideline to sideline, he can blitz off the edge or inside, and he can cover in space. In the past when he played DE, teams could run away from him. They can't do that when he's at MLB.Fellow juniors, Cole Burchill and Sean Tolton both played well against the Jumbos. Murray also brought in a good number of LB's in this year's class, so the Conts should be in good shape there for awhile. The Ham D-line had to replace the entire front four, including Hudson. The four new starters, Alex Ganter, Jeff Martinez, Will Rothschild, and Michael Friedman did a great job of controlling the line of scrimmage. The back end played well. as at least 8 DB's saw playing time. The punter, Billy Wagner had a good day, coming up with a 50 yd. punt when it was really needed.
  Successful player development was even more evident on offense. Kenny Gray '20 showed nice arm strength and a sufficient amount  of poise and cool when pressured. The receiving corps had a huge day. In addition to Schmidt's stellar performance, Christian Donohue emerged as a big time threat from anywhere on the field. Frosh Will Budington and the diminutive Sam Robinson made key plays. Robinson who also runs back kicks, and he showed versatility in both the passing game and in the running game.
  Murray's first two recruiting classes were very NY centric. That makes sense as it's pretty obvious that he and his assistants established excellent relationships with NY high school coaches in previous stints at Alfred and Cortland. NY high school football has been disparaged by some on this board, but NY has a large population, and it's likely that some football talent exists in every area of the Empire State. If you check the Hamilton website, you'll see that each coach has responsibility for recruiting a section of the state. It's no accident that the emerging stars on this team including Hudson , Schmidt, Donohoe, Burchill, Gray, Gutierrez, Leigh, and Palomaki all hail from NY. Like other NESCAC schools , Hamilton will always recruit nationally. Interesting, the class of 2021 includes more players from Massachusetts than NY.
  Rebuilding in this league is really difficult. Hamilton receives a lot of shade on theses pages, much of it without much basis in fact. The early signs for the Conts are good, but they are 0-1, with Amherst, Wesleyan, and Trinity on the (uncontrollable) schedule in the next three weeks.

No need for anyone on this board to disparage NY HS football, the facts speak for themselves (and the same for HS football in Mass and every other state in New England)...that's why the better Teams in this league (Hartford State, Amherst, Wes, Mid, and Tufts) spend a significant amount of their time recruiting from nearby states that actually have good HS football (NJ and PA)...

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2016/6/28/12040586/rankings-state-stars-florida-texas-california

That's why the location of the Maine schools is so bad as it relates to football. No one from NJ or PA wants to drive 6 or 7 hours to visit or attend a school in Maine when they can get a similar education with a winning program 3-5 hours closer to home.

It's not just football.  All sports at the Maine schools have this challenge.  As a native of Brunswick once told me, "You just don't pass through Maine".

[frank uible]

But in Maine you get fresh lobster, moose. the ocean and light traffic. Not to mention an at one time head coach of a NFL championship team.

[ColbyFootball]

While it may not be as easy as recruiting to MA or CT, I have  to laugh when I hear that recruiting to Maine is the problem. You mean to tell me 3 elite schools like CBB can't find 20-25 top student athletes nationwide each year. The HC needs to understand how much he has to offer these athletes, and then sell it. We're talking a handful of kids in the overall scheme of things.

[PolarCat]

While it may be convenient to blame geography for the CBB woes, I don't buy it.  First, Midd is even MORE remote than Colby, Bates and Bowdoin.  At least parents can get to the Maine schools by Interstate; MamaCat detests the drive to Midd on those frost-heaved back roads.  And the CBB are just as remote when it comes to other sports, yet somehow the Basketball, Field Hockey, Crew, Tennis, and Lacrosse coaches can lure kids there who are good enough athletes to help the schools contend for (and in some cases win) National Championships.

There are other factors: Administration indifference, Admissions indifference, facilities, maybe more organic issues.  (E.g. you are a talented wide receiver with offers from two CAC programs.  One of the schools has a great aerial attack and contends for championships , the other runs the ball on almost every down, and struggles to break .500.  Which offer would you choose?)

[polbear73]

I totally agree with Polar Cat and the factors that he listed all apply to Bowdoin.  The facilities issue has been eliminated but decades of administrative indifference and a pervasive culture of losing aren't quickly or easily fixed.  The location can actually be a plus, but there are very few premiere student athletes who are attractive to a consistently losing program. 

[polbear73]

Sorry, fat fingers:  meant to say "attracted to a consistently losing program"

[JEFFFAN]

To further some of these points, Middlebury and Bowdoin show in other sports that recruiting to those areas can be hugely successful.  The track record of both of those schools in multiple sports does not need a Jeff fan to attest to - the records are very, very strong.

Having said that, football, as we all know, is a different beast.  Far more numbers required - see the discussion earlier this Fall on this thread about number of players on a roster - and thus a significantly different commitment on the part of admissions and administration.   It "takes a village" to build a very good football team; it takes 2-3 studs over four years to build a very good basketball team.  As popular as football is in America, my sense is that if D3 college presidents could wave a magic wand they would eliminate football in a heartbeat if they could.   Too many players, too much admissions stretching, no real money at the D3 level, etc.  This may be overstating the issue a bit, but not much.

I give kudos to Tufts for its recent move into the top tier of NESCAC football programs and also kudos to Hamilton for almost taking down the Jumbos.  It is more fun, frankly, to know that there are a number of good games a week rather than maybe two good ones and two serious clunkers.

[nescac1]

I think Bates, Colby and Bowdoin all have a number of structural disadvantages that will always make it an uphill battle for all three to vie for a NESCAC title in football; it's not just one issue, but rather all of them in the aggregate.  First, as discussed Maine is anything but a football hotbed, and it takes work to lure players -- especially minority players -- to a remote area that isn't terribly diverse.  Yes, Middlebury has succeeded in doing so, but also, Middlebury is not fighting with two other nearby schools -- they are the only game in town in Vermont, and there isn't even a NESCAC school in neighboring New Hampshire, either.  Meanwhile, Colby, Bates and Bowdoin are fighting to lure recruits to Maine without a ton of local talent to pick from.  ON the rare occasion that there is a local star like Lebowitz who wants to stay/return home, Midd has no competitors; CBB will only have a one-in-three shot. 

Also, there is a pretty strong correlation (especially now that Wesleyan and Tufts have risen in the standings) between the size of NESCAC school and the strength of its football program.  Now, every school has the same number of TIPS -- but at the same time, some schools are consistently able to bring in bigger classes of football players, creating more depth and competition, without the same sort of overall disproportionate impact on the student body.  I imagine its a tougher sell to admissions to have 27-30 frosh football players at a school with 1800 undergrads vs. 2700 or more. 

And then as others have noted a lack of tradition is tough to overcome.  If you look at what each school has in terms of recruiting advantages:

Williams and Amherst: top academic reputations in the league, strong football traditions (until very recently for Williams, but the history certainly matters and in 2-3 more years everyone thinks the Ephs will be back), elite football facilities, fairly close proximity to loads of great recruiting territory (both an easy drive from Boston, NYC, NJ, etc.) (that is why it is so crazy that Kelton struggled so much to recruit, I mean, come on ... it's a really easy sell)

Trinity: most admissions flexibility, elite football tradition, very central to great recruiting territory, urban location which may be more appealing to some recruits

Wesleyan: large student body, more urban location than some of the more remote NESCAC schools, like Trinity central to prime recruiting turf, fun location of football field

Tufts: largest student body, most university-like setting, and right next to Boston

Middlebury: large student body, combo of great academic reputation plus some room for flexibility / creativity in admissions (SAT option, Feb admits, etc.), only NESCAC school in Vermont, appealing offensive system to play in, tremendous overall athletic tradition, great athletic facilities overall

Hamilton: in an entirely different recruiting region, so can draw recruits who might not be as interested in the New England schools.  Otherwise, very similar situation to CBB. 

Colby, Bates and Bowdoin don't have the top academic reputation in the league (although Bowdoin is right there), but on the other hand, they don't have as much recruiting flexibility as Trinity.  They are far removed from all the prime NESCAC recruiting areas save for Boston and the north shore of Mass, and plenty of other NESCAC schools have equal or better proximity to that area.  They are in fairly rural, lilly-white areas (especially Colby) which might scare off some recruits.  They have small student bodies, so its harder to hide a massive influx of football players in any given class.  And they all have to compete with one another for the same pool of potential recruits, essentially, without any home-team advantage of regional dominance.  All those things put together will always make it an uphill battle.  It's not impossible -- Colby has in the past had years where it was at or towards the top of NESCAC.  But it's always going to be a major challenge, in my view ... you need a really strong coach AND strong commitment from admissions to even have a fair shot. 

[ColbyFootball]

While it may be convenient to blame geography for the CBB woes, I don't buy it.  First, Midd is even MORE remote than Colby, Bates and Bowdoin.  At least parents can get to the Maine schools by Interstate; MamaCat detests the drive to Midd on those frost-heaved back roads.  And the CBB are just as remote when it comes to other sports, yet somehow the Basketball, Field Hockey, Crew, Tennis, and Lacrosse coaches can lure kids there who are good enough athletes to help the schools contend for (and in some cases win) National Championships.

There are other factors: Administration indifference, Admissions indifference, facilities, maybe more organic issues.  (E.g. you are a talented wide receiver with offers from two CAC programs.  One of the schools has a great aerial attack and contends for championships , the other runs the ball on almost every down, and struggles to break .500.  Which offer would you choose?)

Thank you for making my point in such a clear convincing way. I agree with you 100%.

[PolarCat]

First ... it takes work to lure players -- especially minority players -- to a remote area that isn't terribly diverse. 

Also, there is a pretty strong correlation (especially now that Wesleyan and Tufts have risen in the standings) between the size of NESCAC school and the strength of its football program.  I imagine its a tougher sell to admissions to have 27-30 frosh football players at a school with 1800 undergrads vs. 2700 or more. 

And then as others have noted a lack of tradition is tough to overcome. 

Plus K.  In my mind, the above three points are spot on.