FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Hamiltonian]

"The bigger issue equity issue regarding schedule, by a factor of 1000, was that before this season, every team got to skip one other -- that truly made the schedules unbalanced.  Rotational issues seem harder to complain about because you still have to play everyone eventually, and because there will be at least SOME variation in quality of teams over time (in some cases dramatic, see, e.g., Tufts).  Seems like teams should have a lot less to complain about now!"

You could only feel that way if your schedule didn't begin with Tufts, Amherst, Wesleyan, Trinity. 

[PolarCat]

You could only feel that way if your schedule didn't begin with Tufts, Amherst, Wesleyan, Trinity.

+1.  Bates' schedule isn't QUITE that brutal (Amherst, Trinity, Tufts, a breather for Williams, then Wes).  But the challenge is that the schools with thinner rosters will really suffer if they get key players banged up in the early going.  Bates' senior captain left at halftime Saturday with an injury, and a key DL left in the second half.  No idea of the long-term prognosis, and whether / when they will be able to return, but those types of early-season injuries can really impact a program.  Whereas if Amherst, Wes, Trinity or Midd lose a player, they just reload.

Yes, I know the answer in some folks' mind is that's life, and Bates, Bowdoin, Colby, Williams or Hamilton should just do a better job recruiting and developing talent.  But it does sometimes feel like the deck is stacked against us.

[nescac1]

Is it better to begin with those four, or end with those four?  Who knows.  You have to play 'em all eventually ... also, until three years ago, Tufts was the worst team in the league.  Until five years ago, Wesleyan was also really bad.  Williams was once great, now is not remotely good, as for the future, who knows?  The point is that for nearly every NESCAC team, fortunes ebb and flow over time.  But if in any given year, two teams fighting for the NESCAC championship play markedly different groups of opponents, where one, e.g., doesn't get to play an 0-8 team while the other doesn't play a 7-1 team, that is egregiously unfair. 

Edited in light of last comment, which I just saw: is there a greater chance of players getting injured in a blow-out loss or in a closely-competitive game?  I have no idea, but I think it's odd to suggest that playing better teams earlier in the season increased chances of serious injuries.  I guess that is possible, but I know of no evidence to support that claim.  In some ways, I would think the opposite to be true -- if you're down 35-0, you can play a lot deeper into your bench, reducing the chances of an injury to a starter. 

[PolarCat]

if you're down 35-0, you can play a lot deeper into your bench, reducing the chances of an injury to a starter.

Except it doesn't work that way.  The team that is UP 35-0 rests their starters in the second half.  The team that is DOWN 35-0 keeps their starting units on the field.  And both coaches are absolutely correct in doing so.  The coach on top wants to reduce the risk of injuries and give his back-ups game experience.  The coach on the losing side of the score wants to teach the life lesson "Never Give Up".

[AUPepBand]

if you're down 35-0, you can play a lot deeper into your bench, reducing the chances of an injury to a starter.

Except it doesn't work that way.  The team that is UP 35-0 rests their starters in the second half.  The team that is DOWN 35-0 keeps their starting units on the field.  And both coaches are absolutely correct in doing so.  The coach on top wants to reduce the risk of injuries and give his back-ups game experience.  The coach on the losing side of the score wants to teach the life lesson "Never Give Up".

Alex Yunevich's boys in 1963 had started out 2-0 but the injury bug struck hard. Mind you, Yunie was most comfortable carrying less than 50 players on his squad. The season took a real tailspin and the Saxons had some hard luck, losing successive games to St. Lawrence 14-0, Hobart 3-0, and Upsala 6-0 and were trailing the Susquehanna Crusaders 30-0 at halftime in Selinsgrove. Yunie, realizing the Saxons still had C.W. Post on the schedule the next week, pulled his starters in the third quarter because he wanted to save them for the last game. SU went on to win, 68-0.

SU Coach Jim Garrett (father of Cowboys Coach Jason Garrett), told me that following the game, he went to Yunie and apologized for the score getting run up. Garrett said, "And the coach simply said, 'It's okay, we'll see you in Alfred next year.' He was a real gentleman." Garrett told me it seemed like Alfred had a real letdown in the third quarter. That's when Yunie pulled his starters.

Next year, Garrett brought his boys to Alfred riding a 14-game winning streak to play the Saxons, who were 3-2-1 at the time. Final score in the Miracle at Merrill was Alfred 18, Susquehanna 16.

Pep remembers when Coach Eric Taylor took over the East Dillon Lions and forfeited at halftime of his fledgling team's first game. Taylor was mocked and ridiculed but eventually, he had himself a winning team.

Coach Paul Bear Bryant certainly ran his Texas A&M preseason camp at Junction under the dictates of the "Never Give Up" mentality, reducing a squad of 110 young men to a mere 40 after ten days. His team went 1-9 that year but two years later, the "survivors," his Junction Boys, were the core of an unbeaten Aggies team.

Guess what Pep is saying is "to each his own."

[nescac1]

Fair enough, PolarCat.  In all events, I'm not sure that there is a correlation between guys getting hurt and playing better competition (assuming roughly the same category, age and type of athletes ... vs. NFL guys, yeah, I could imagine NESCAC dudes wouldn't last very long before being carted off the field, but NESCAC doesn't have any 280 pound dudes running 4.6 40s) -- there may well be, I just have never heard that before. 

[PolarCat]

Pep remembers when Coach Eric Taylor took over the East Dillon Lions and forfeited at halftime of his fledgling team's first game. Taylor was mocked and ridiculed but eventually, he had himself a winning team.

To be fair, if Tami (Connie Britton) was waiting for you at home, you'd probably leave at halftime, too.  (PS: Buddy Garrity's favorite team was the Panthers, not the Lions).

[Hamiltonian]

"until three years ago, Tufts was the worst team in the league.  Until five years ago, Wesleyan was also really bad.  Williams was once great, now is not remotely good, as for the future, who knows?  The point is that for nearly every NESCAC team, fortunes ebb and flow over time."

that's a good point.  and maybe the wheel is turning again as we speak.

[Bombers798891]

if you're down 35-0, you can play a lot deeper into your bench, reducing the chances of an injury to a starter.

Except it doesn't work that way.  The team that is UP 35-0 rests their starters in the second half.  The team that is DOWN 35-0 keeps their starting units on the field.  And both coaches are absolutely correct in doing so.  The coach on top wants to reduce the risk of injuries and give his back-ups game experience.  The coach on the losing side of the score wants to teach the life lesson "Never Give Up".

Except it does. You want to reduce the risk of injuries as well. And if you're a bad team and you don't play your backups when you're down big, when will you play them? You're certainly not going to do it in a close game. And if you're not good, how many times will you be up by enough to do it? And of course, there's the elephant in the room: A team down 35-0 may want to consider that some of their starters should not be starting.

[PolarCat]

Every Pats fan is glad the Hoody didn't take your advice in Houston.  And whether or not a coach down 35-0 SHOULD play his backups, I don't know many / any in the CAC who actually do.

Of course, a school with a 67% acceptance rate probably has no trouble packing the roster with qualified backups.  NESCAC coaches don't have it so lucky.

[amh63]

AUPepBand....nice post.  I too am a fan of the Hamilton Coach....the former AU coach.  Aware that is youngest daughter is a student at Cornell.
One thing for sure, the latest posts all indicate to me that it is a tough job...to be a HFC in a conference that has player limits, until now an unbalanced schedule, tough academic  restrictions, etc., etc..
For me...The game in Clinton with Hamilton is a challenge.  First, one has to avoid a wrong turn going the " back roads"...going to let my daughter drive.  Must remember NOT to head for the town of Hamilton before looking for the town/village of Clinton.  Colgate Un. is in Hamilton and just a  short distance away.  First time back since the removal of the visitor stand...singular.  Rest rooms further away.   Hamilton's team is a big unknown challenge playing at HOME.  Know their HC is a winner.  Have to find a place in town to eat that meets the needs of my family...picky eaters.   No Asian place with sushi, etc. 
PolarCat....you can get sushi at Cumberland farms?  Hope the Village of Clinton has such a establishment. .

[Conts Fan]

Is it better to begin with those four, or end with those four?  Who knows.  You have to play 'em all eventually ... also, until three years ago, Tufts was the worst team in the league.  Until five years ago, Wesleyan was also really bad.  Williams was once great, now is not remotely good, as for the future, who knows?  The point is that for nearly every NESCAC team, fortunes ebb and flow over time.  But if in any given year, two teams fighting for the NESCAC championship play markedly different groups of opponents, where one, e.g., doesn't get to play an 0-8 team while the other doesn't play a 7-1 team, that is egregiously unfair. 

Edited in light of last comment, which I just saw: is there a greater chance of players getting injured in a blow-out loss or in a closely-competitive game?  I have no idea, but I think it's odd to suggest that playing better teams earlier in the season increased chances of serious injuries.  I guess that is possible, but I know of no evidence to support that claim.  In some ways, I would think the opposite to be true -- if you're down 35-0, you can play a lot deeper into your bench, reducing the chances of an injury to a starter.

I think maybe more likely is that a team that could possibly build confidence with a weaker early schedule (or mixed, at least) might be better off than one that gets put in a hole early in the season and sees some disenchantment set in. Maybe starting 2-2 leads to a better outcome than being 0-4 and losing all confidence. But the point about Tufts and Wesleyan flipping their scripts over the past several years is legitimate, so outside of rotating the schedules every year there's probably not much to be done.

[ColbyFootball]

if you're down 35-0, you can play a lot deeper into your bench, reducing the chances of an injury to a starter.

Except it doesn't work that way.  The team that is UP 35-0 rests their starters in the second half.  The team that is DOWN 35-0 keeps their starting units on the field.  And both coaches are absolutely correct in doing so.  The coach on top wants to reduce the risk of injuries and give his back-ups game experience.  The coach on the losing side of the score wants to teach the life lesson "Never Give Up".

What about. Getting your backups experience while teaching the life lesson, "If you don't perform you will eventually sit"? That's important as well.

[AUPepBand]

AUPepBand....nice post.  I too am a fan of the Hamilton Coach....the former AU coach.  Aware that is youngest daughter is a student at Cornell.
One thing for sure, the latest posts all indicate to me that it is a tough job...to be a HFC in a conference that has player limits, until now an unbalanced schedule, tough academic  restrictions, etc., etc..
For me...The game in Clinton with Hamilton is a challenge.  First, one has to avoid a wrong turn going the " back roads"...going to let my daughter drive.  Must remember NOT to head for the town of Hamilton before looking for the town/village of Clinton.  Colgate Un. is in Hamilton and just a  short distance away.  First time back since the removal of the visitor stand...singular.  Rest rooms further away.   Hamilton's team is a big unknown challenge playing at HOME.  Know their HC is a winner.  Have to find a place in town to eat that meets the needs of my family...picky eaters.   No Asian place with sushi, etc. 
PolarCat....you can get sushi at Cumberland farms?  Hope the Village of Clinton has such a establishment. .

Thanks, amh63...+K Pep is well familiar with the oddities of Central New York geography. Pep is an alum of Morrisville State, located in....how about this one?....MORRISVILLE! Familiar with Hamilton being over the hill, home of Colgate. Also familiar with Clinton, where Hamilton College in on the hill. Also familiar with the fact that Hobart is in Geneva, NY (there is a Hobart, NY, too!) and Geneva College is in Beaver Falls, PA. And do you know that East Aurora, New York is a three-hour drive WEST of Aurora, New York?

As for eating in Hamilton, Pep isn't there often enough to suggest a winner but Utica's not too far and you could always try Pho Mekong House of Noodles in Utica. Pep wouldn't care for it, but if the venture included a stop at Holland Farms, a half moon cookie will please the most finicky of palates. Pep made a stop there after the AU-Utica game last November.

On Saxon Warriors!

[PolarCat]

Have to find a place in town to eat that meets the needs of my family...picky eaters.   No Asian place with sushi, etc. 

No visit to Clinton / Utica is complete without chicken riggies.  Michael T's in New Hartford is a good bet.  Not too expensive, but very, very good food.  If you want more upscale Italian (but no chicken riggies  ) Bella Cucina in New Hartford is quite good.  Or if you don't mind driving to Utica, Delmonico's is very nice.

If your family doesn't want Italian?  Fuggadabout it.  I got nothin.'