FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[quicksilver]

Bowdoin's freshman class numbers 511, which is a little larger in size than planned on. The recruits announced on twitter numbered 26, including the transfer QB from Lafayette.

[frank uible]

Quality beats quantity every time.

[Hamiltonian]

so, a question from a relative novice.  everyone seems to have roughly the same number of recruits regardless of school size.  first, is there a rule or gentleman's agreement in the league that limits the number of recruits for everyone?  and second, are the bigger schools likely to get players who are not necessarily "recruits" but still wind up playing a big role on the team?  if the answer to the first question is yes and the second is no, then it seems there is no advantage accorded to the larger schools.  yet it definitely feels like, with a few exceptions (looking at you, Amherst), the bigger schools on average have more success.  grateful if someone could break this down.

[nescac1]

Regarding recruits, all NESCAC schools get between 66 and 72 TIPS (66 for Little Three, 72 for everyone else, I believe), and a bunch more "protects," spread among all sports.  Theoretically, a school could devote many more of those to football than their competitors, but that would shortchange other sports so it won't really happen.  Most of the star football players at most schools will come from whatever percentage of TIPS (I think typically around 12-16, roughly) are devoted to football each year, although of course some impact players will also come from the ranks of "protects."  So really, the playing field in terms of numbers of players who are likely to have an actual impact is fairly even.    Where some schools have bigger advantages is that what counts as a "TIP" one place might be more like a protect or even a regular admit somewhere else.  But given how few true walk-on players make an impact in football (or really, any NESCAC sport nowadays), school size shouldn't have much of an impact at all, since everyone is dealing with the same number of TIPS and protects across all sports.

Really, school size, historically, has had nothing to do with success.  The most successful NESCAC programs going back decades are Trinity, Amherst, and Williams.  Each have had periods of bumps in the roads owing to coaching transitions or in one case a very poor hire, but generally, you can count on at least one of those three schools, usually more than one of those three, to be at the top of NESCAC football year in and year out going all the way back to the mid 1980s, at least.  And those three are basically in the middle of the NESCAC pack in terms of overall student population.  Tufts and Wesleyan have emerged over the last five years as football powers because they brought in great coaching staffs and emphasized bringing in more talented recruits (not finding walk-ons elsewhere in the larger student population).  Middlebury likewise is strong not because of school size but rather a great coaching staff, sports facilities, and overall atheltic culture.  Nothing to do with the size of the schools -- remember, Wesleyan and Tufts were often bottom feeders for many years before hiring their current coaching staffs, notwithstanding their large student bodies. 

And the Maine schools I think are at a disadvantage largely not due to student body size, but because they have to fight with each other over a recruiting turf that isn't naturally terribly rich in talent, and when they go into the rest of New England, they are trying to win recruiting battles vs. more traditionally successful programs closer to players' hometowns -- not an easy sell.  Hamilton I think has an advantage as the only New York school -- can draw on an entirely different pool of players.  So it's not a surprise to see that program (seemingly) on the rise under a strong coaching staff. 

[NBC93]

 Hamiltonian,
The only imit is based off of a 75 man final roster. Technically each team could recruit more if they dont mind cutting players in order to reach 75. Larger schools have no advantage in recruiting. Its not high school where bigger enrollment means bigger talent pool.
The recruiting class in NESCAC schools are roughly equal because of similar retention rates. Seniors graduate and some underclassmen leave the team due to playing time, some leave early because of the stress of time and grades. Some leave school entirely. All of these factors roughly translate to a 33% player loss that has to be recovered thru recruiting.
Many schools only recruit to fill up 75 spots with no cuts. I know Amherst, at times, recruits slightly above and cuts upperclassmen that have not shown the potential to have a significant impact. First years are exempt from cuts and have a safe year to learn and develop.

[amh63]

Hamiltonian.....making some work for me .  Somewhere back about a 100 pages, there was a discussion of the 'agreement" between the Nescac schools wrt football squad size and the number of "tips" allowed each year to football recruits.  The Bowdoin papers dwelled on the subject.  I will summarize as best I can recall.....realizing that Hamilton was an original Nescac school and left and has returned.
The Dean of Admissions....now both admissions and finance...of Amherst proposed that the football squad be limited to 75. There are tips for student-athletes in all sports.  The tips proposed for football was 15.  Tips would be for athletes that had test scores...that have academic records..lower than those of the general population of the school. The Amherst dean had been the Dean of Admission at Williams...and an EPH alum?  He switched when his wife got a position at Hampshire College in Amherst.  Anyway....with the squad total limited...maybe up to 76 now?...Amherst had to reduce its squad while many of the other Nescac schools still have trouble reaching 75.  It is noted that Williams with its fine season last season and a new coach had less than 75 players last season on its roster.
Bowdoin is rebuilding with a new coach so the number of recruits is not surprisingly  vice
Amherst....Amherst graduated 14 players, I recall, but then, I cannot count .
Question to the Williams posters here....how many FYs arrived in the Class of '22?
Also to be a little snarky...I have heard/read that there are some possible football recruits promised entrance for NEXT year!  Playing like the Ivy school rules in soccer. 
I mention academic records vice test scores above since some Nescac schools like Bowdoin? Have waved standard scores like SATs or ACt.
I invite other posters to correct or modify my comments here.

[Hamiltonian]

hey, great tutorial guys!  thanks for all that, and sorry to make amh63 work but at least it was quality work!

I'm sold on the importance of coaching, and of course see it happening in Clinton.  obviously that's a difference maker.  but I do think some schools enjoy a leg up.  I know for a fact, based on talking to friends and parents, that the better known and more prestigious schools have an advantage, for instance.  also location matters.  weather matters (although no one in this league has what kids think of as good weather, some are worse than others!) and obviously there is some disparity in admissions standards.  clearly all these factors are at work, but also they don't all point in one direction.  and even a school with advantages can squander them with a bad program while a good program can overcome disadvantages -- as you guys make abundantly clear.

all of this makes it a really fun league.  I'm a diehard NESCAC fanatic, not least because it really is just about the only truly amateur football left in America.  I see my son with his fellow teammates locking themselves into the library for weeks in the crunch times and just thank god for the good fortune.  these guys are smart and success-oriented.  not a single one of these kids is failing to think beyond football, from the time they are freshmen and more and more each year.  so they just love to play.  how great is that?

[PolarCat]

The only limit is based off of a 75 man final roster. Technically each team could recruit more if they dont mind cutting players in order to reach 75.

Many schools only recruit to fill up 75 spots with no cuts. I know Amherst, at times, recruits slightly above and cuts upperclassmen that have not shown the potential to have a significant impact. First years are exempt from cuts and have a safe year to learn and develop.

That may be true for the LJ's, but it is not true for the CAC in general.

There is at least one school that recruits many more FY's than the roster can accommodate, and by definition, many of them do not make the team.  By all accounts, the coach is very up front about this in the recruiting process, and FY's who don't make the roster are encouraged to "stick it out", work out with the team, etc.  Some of them make the roster as upperclassmen.

This board has seen many discussions about this over the years.  Some of us (whose kids played at schools that may find it a challenge to fill an entire recruiting class), wish some of those kids who don't make the roster would come play for us.  But by the time that Johnny Frosh finds out he's not making the roster, it's too late.

[Hamiltonian]

in my experience they give up on football.  some transfer to the schools they had thought about going to before they got recruited by NESCAC and thought they had a chance to keep playing.  don't know of any kid who got cut (or wasn't going to play) going to another school where they did play.  but maybe others do.

[lumbercat]

Trinity has somewhere between 34-37 "recruits" coming in this year. Most other schools bringing in 22-25 on average.
Unlike most other NESCAC schools Trinity openly recruits "walk ons". Incoming players given an opportunity to compete for a roster spot.

[NED3Guy]

NESCAC outsider with a very limited knowledge of how things work in the NESCAC these days.

That said, I have a lot of experience in and around the New England Prep world, and have seen many guys go through the recruiting process with multiple NESCAC schools.

The question I have, is how diversity factors into it all. I've been told by a some folks that at times coaches would not have to use a tip on a student of color due to institutional policy / initiatives in a given year. If schools X is putting a premium on diversity during an enrollment cycle, that coaching staff would in essence be given "free bees" and not have to use tips on diverse students.

If this is common practice, than I can completely see how school size would play a big factor in team success. Could also be reason why some of the Maine teams, and Hamilton have not been as successful as the schools in more urban settings, that may make for an easier sell to students from more diverse backgrounds.

[lumbercat]

That is correct and is one of the factors contributing to some inequities in the process. I know that "concept" has perennially been deployed at Trinity, to their credit.

In addition to this its pretty obvious with 37 FY's coming in that Devanney has everyone sold in Hartford on giving him the latitude to bring in this many football players or candidates.

Thats why they dominate- different ballgame down there.

To their credit they have made a unified commitment to excellence on the Football field and I can't knock that.

[Hamiltonian]

NESCAC outsider with a very limited knowledge of how things work in the NESCAC these days.

That said, I have a lot of experience in and around the New England Prep world, and have seen many guys go through the recruiting process with multiple NESCAC schools.

The question I have, is how diversity factors into it all. I've been told by a some folks that at times coaches would not have to use a tip on a student of color due to institutional policy / initiatives in a given year. If schools X is putting a premium on diversity during an enrollment cycle, that coaching staff would in essence be given "free bees" and not have to use tips on diverse students.

If this is common practice, than I can completely see how school size would play a big factor in team success. Could also be reason why some of the Maine teams, and Hamilton have not been as successful as the schools in more urban settings, that may make for an easier sell to students from more diverse backgrounds.

[/b]

That seems to me a factor, though, again, not with Amherst (or Williams).

[amh63]

Over the decades of watching Nescac football there are times when one never knows why one star player chose to go to a different Nescac school than his brother.  Remember several brothers chose Trinity over Amherst or was it the other way around .  In one case, an Amherst star runner was jokingly asked by his defensive teammates if they could hit his younger brother in the game.  His response was...paraphrasing here...why not, I hit him all the time.  Remember at a game in Clinton, a parent was on the phone with her husband who was at another Nescac game watching another son play.  Remember parents switching sides during half time during an Amherst game.  Better yet, there was an Amherst vs. Williams game not so far back when several EPH alum football classmates were asked why their sons were on the field playing for Amherst...interviewed at halftime of the game....at Willytown too.

[Trin9-0]

In addition to this its pretty obvious with 37 FY's coming in that Devanney has everyone sold in Hartford on giving him the latitude to bring in this many football players or candidates.

Thats why they dominate- different ballgame down there.

If Trinity receives the same number of TIPS as the other NESCACs (save for Williams and Amherst self-imposed limits) then why should it matter how many incoming first year players wish to try out for their football team? Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but if they were accepted via the College's admissions process, without the benefit of being a TIP, then why should it matter if they also decide to play football?

Is the implication that the football team receives a disproportionate number of TIPS in relation to Trinity's other teams or just that they shouldn't have so many first-year players trying out?

I would imagine the Trinity admissions team is grateful for the football program's ability to attract additional qualified students regardless of their ability to play football.