FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Nescacman]

Until HAM actually lives up to all of the hype espoused on this Board the last two days, we would clearly place them at the top of the "have not's" of the NESCAC. Still a long way from being a "have". There are no "mid-ranks" and if there were, it would not include the Conts. 

Trinity or Amherst has won at least a share of the past 7 NESCAC titles, and 9 of the last 10. I'd say that's a pretty clear top tier with Midd, Wes, Tufts and now Williams all on a slightly lower level (albeit well above the third tier). I agree that Hamilton is clearly atop the rest of the CBB in the third grouping.

Hey Hs8-0, get back to work...aren't your bosses at Wesleyan giving you enough to do?!?

[Nescacman]

NESCACMAN Poll

Who left their respective program in the worst shape?

A). HCOF Cohen (Hamilton)
B). HCOF Kelton (TTUN)
C). HCOF Caputi (Bowdoin)
D). HCOF Michaeles (Colby)

Our vote clearly goes to (B), HCOF Kelton. Why? Because he took a program clearly at the top of the NESCAC to the absolute basement, a task not easily accomplished in the time that he did it.

[nescac1]

I don't think Kelton left Williams in bad shape for his successor - not through anything he himself did, but the reality is that while Raymond didn't inherit very much talent on the roster, he did inherit a program with (1) the best football facilities in NESCAC, (2) the best academic reputation in NESCAC, (3) a long history of alumni and institutional support for football, (4) tremendous football traditions (The Walk, Gameday, the Little 3, loads of prominent football alums, etc.) and (5) a still-fairly-recent-history of success to point to, all at an institution with the largest endowment in the conference (and largest by a wide margin over any school save Amherst). 

Kelton wins if the metric is "did the least with the most."  But if you look at what Raymond has accomplished in his first three years, it is very similar to what Siedlicki managed at Amherst in the early 1990s after also inheriting an 0-8 team -- it's much easier (with a top-notch coaching staff) to turn around a temporarily awful situation than a historically awful one.   Now, beating Midd and Amherst in year 2 and Trinity in year 3 is truly remarkable, given the talent discrepancy on those occasions, and Raymond deserves a ton of credit for just how quickly he had made Williams competitive with any team in NESCAC despite a still very thin roster.  But I don't think ANYONE would have said prior to Raymond's hire that the successor to Kelton would be inheriting a situation akin to Hamilton or Bowdoin, from a football team-building perspective. 

[middhoops]

Embarrassed to be slow on the uptake, but what is the relationship between endowment and winning football games?  Wouldn't that make Bowdoin a perennial contender?

[nescac1]

Middhoops, I'd say endowment (if schools are willing to spend from it on athletics, a huge caveat) matters not a ton, but does matter on the margins because it allows for better facilities, better equipment, better marketing, better financial aid, and more and higher-paid assistant coaches, all of which contribute in some way to the ability to win recruiting battles. 

There is a decent albeit not exact correlation between the NESCAC schools with the highest per-student endowments (Amherst/Williams, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Tufts, I beleive in roughly that order) and the schools with the best overall athletic programs.  Trinity is an outlier in that regard but location among other factors allow it to be more competitive than its endowment would suggest. 

[lumbercat]

Middhoops, I'd say endowment (if schools are willing to spend from it on athletics, a huge caveat) matters not a ton, but does matter on the margins because it allows for better facilities, better equipment, better marketing, better financial aid, and more and higher-paid assistant coaches, all of which contribute in some way to the ability to win recruiting battles. 

There is a decent albeit not exact correlation between the NESCAC schools with the highest per-student endowments (Amherst/Williams, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Tufts, I beleive in roughly that order) and the schools with the best overall athletic programs.  Trinity is an outlier in that regard but location among other factors allow it to be more competitive than its endowment would suggest.

Bowdoin has plenty of $$$$ and you can see it in the program. Experienced staff which is said to be well paid and on the top end of the NESCAC in terms of compensation.

When the new facility is done it looks like it will be among the best in the league.

On a smaller scale look at things like 3 different color uniform sets.
Also, a few years ago Caputi bought those awful flat Black helmets, they didnt like them so they were discarded after one year. They brought in a complete new supply of helmets, the new white helmets they have now. Other teams don't have the funding for those things.

I believe the impediment at Bowdoin is at least partly the infatuation with their elevated national ranking in US News and World Report.
They don't want their desired quest toward "ultra elite" academic status to be compromised by the admission of sub par student athletes.

It's been said that JB has been getting some leeway in recruiting but the academics are not happy- there is evidently some continuing anti football friction on campus but that is not a new phenomena.

[polbear73]

Middhoops, I'd say endowment (if schools are willing to spend from it on athletics, a huge caveat) matters not a ton, but does matter on the margins because it allows for better facilities, better equipment, better marketing, better financial aid, and more and higher-paid assistant coaches, all of which contribute in some way to the ability to win recruiting battles. 

There is a decent albeit not exact correlation between the NESCAC schools with the highest per-student endowments (Amherst/Williams, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Tufts, I beleive in roughly that order) and the schools with the best overall athletic programs.  Trinity is an outlier in that regard but location among other factors allow it to be more competitive than its endowment would suggest.

Bowdoin has plenty of $$$$ and you can see it in the program. Experienced staff which is said to be well paid and on the top end of the NESCAC in terms of compensation.

When the new facility is done it looks like it will be among the best in the league.

On a smaller scale look at things like 3 different color uniform sets.
Also, a few years ago Caputi bought those awful flat Black helmets, they didnt like them so they we're discarded after one year. The brought in a complete new supply of helmets, the new white helmets they have now. Other teams don't have the funding for those things.

I believe the impediment at Bowdoin is at least partly the infatuation with their elevated national ranking in US News and World Report.
They don't want their desired quest toward "ultra elite" academic status to be compromised by the admission of sub par student athletes.

It's been said that JB has been getting some leeway in recruiting but the academics are not happy- there is evidently some continuing anti football friction on campus but that is not a new phenomena.

Lumbercat-I agree with everything here. JB met with a group of football alumni informally before the Tufts game and said he could not have been more pleased with the support from the Admissions Office and believed the program had turned the corner. Unfortunately, Tufts and Hamilton have proven that assessment to be premature.

[Trin9-0]

Nescacman, I noted your name among those who will be attending this weekend's Homecoming festivities in Middletown. Looking forward to meeting the man behind the keyboard. Hopefully we'll be celebrating a Cardinal upset victory over Amherst. That would be both good for business and the Bantams' chances at a NESCAC three-peat!

At Trinity's own Homecoming celebration last weekend the school held a Trinity Athletics event in the morning where President Berger-Sweeney, AD Drew Galbraith, and several coaches (including Jeff Devanney) announced the creation of a Trinity Athletics Hall of Fame (with the first class to be inducted next year). Not coincidentally this announcement was paired with the news of a fundraising campaign for athletics that will, no doubt, be included in the College's upcoming comprehensive fundraising campaign.

With all of the facilities upgrades in Hartford in the past few years, my sense is that the campaign will focus on endowing coaching positions and possibly entire programs to reduce the reliance on annual fundraising efforts by teams and the department. As noted by nescac1, Trinity's success in athletics (and football in particular) are an aberration given the relative size of the school's endowment. A successful campaign would help tremendously and given the passion of Trin's alumni athlete population, many of whom have deep pockets, I think the school is well-positioned for success.

[amh63]

Trin8-0.....most interesting post...and retort to Nescacman.  The financial info wrt Trinity in the days ahead is also deserving of a comment from me.  Anyway my comments ....
Fall has indeed arrived at Amherst as I view the camera shots of the new science building; the facility will be dedicated today....watched the new grass being cut yesterday .  Many sport contests at Middletown as it is Homecoming for the Cardinals.  Have been to a number of the events in past years. Since my bestman moved to the Chapel Hill area from East Lyme, I have not made a visit to Middletown .   Yes, the game on Sat. should be most interesting.  Hope Amherst will not need the services of Hickey to boost its running game.
The use of a college endownment to support athletes..other than personnel salaries varies among Nescac schools.  Williams sought a rebuild of its football facilities after the famous "mud bowl game" in Nov. 1995.  The NYT covered the game events for three days and had the banner..."Amherst wins 0-0 tie from Williams in mud" on Nov.11.  The sought after facilities was completed about 20 years later. Meanwhile Amherst's new facility was completed earlier.  Amherst's Prez told alums that any new
facility must be funded separate from normal fundraising efforts.  It was done by a small number of alums and friends...the major portion by the father of a player.  All schools have a "friends of athletics" org. that provide additional funds to sports like equipment needs, I believe.  There is a large endowed professorship named for the DARP...the late great HFC at Amherst.  This professorship is rotated among the "academic" faculty.  Cannot remember if a head coach ever held it.  Yes, each school has
its path to support its athletic teams.  Like the proposed path taken by Trinity.
I have attended the Wesleyan homecoming event several times.  It is a fun time watching the number of sports events wins and losses both.  Best of all is meeting people/friends.  Would like to see Trin8-0 receive a donation from poster Nescacman.  Maybe pay to see the occasion.

[Nescacman]

Trin8-0.....most interesting post...and retort to Nescacman.  The financial info wrt Trinity in the days ahead is also deserving of a comment from me.  Anyway my comments ....
Fall has indeed arrived at Amherst as I view the camera shots of the new science building; the facility will be dedicated today....watched the new grass being cut yesterday .  Many sport contests at Middletown as it is Homecoming for the Cardinals.  Have been to a number of the events in past years. Since my bestman moved to the Chapel Hill area from East Lyme, I have not made a visit to Middletown .   Yes, the game on Sat. should be most interesting.  Hope Amherst will not need the services of Hickey to boost its running game.
The use of a college endownment to support athletes..other than personnel salaries varies among Nescac schools.  Williams sought a rebuild of its football facilities after the famous "mud bowl game" in Nov. 1995.  The NYT covered the game events for three days and had the banner..."Amherst wins 0-0 tie from Williams in mud" on Nov.11.  The sought after facilities was completed about 20 years later. Meanwhile Amherst's new facility was completed earlier.  Amherst's Prez told alums that any new
facility must be funded separate from normal fundraising efforts.  It was done by a small number of alums and friends...the major portion by the father of a player.  All schools have a "friends of athletics" org. that provide additional funds to sports like equipment needs, I believe.  There is a large endowed professorship named for the DARP...the late great HFC at Amherst.  This professorship is rotated among the "academic" faculty.  Cannot remember if a head coach ever held it.  Yes, each school has
its path to support its athletic teams.  Like the proposed path taken by Trinity.
I have attended the Wesleyan homecoming event several times.  It is a fun time watching the number of sports events wins and losses both.  Best of all is meeting people/friends.  Would like to see Trin8-0 receive a donation from poster Nescacman.  Maybe pay to see the occasion.

Amh63...we'll stick to football, for now...our sources in Mammothland tell us that, although nicked up, Hickey will try to give it a go tomorrow in what is sure to be the NESCAC GOTW...

As you know, some of our correspondents are alums of numerous schools in the 'CAC, including Wes and Amhurst. Amh63, you are an officer and a gentleman and are always welcome at our tailgate... 

[Nescacman]

Trin8-0.....most interesting post...and retort to Nescacman.  The financial info wrt Trinity in the days ahead is also deserving of a comment from me.  Anyway my comments ....
Fall has indeed arrived at Amherst as I view the camera shots of the new science building; the facility will be dedicated today....watched the new grass being cut yesterday .  Many sport contests at Middletown as it is Homecoming for the Cardinals.  Have been to a number of the events in past years. Since my bestman moved to the Chapel Hill area from East Lyme, I have not made a visit to Middletown .   Yes, the game on Sat. should be most interesting.  Hope Amherst will not need the services of Hickey to boost its running game.
The use of a college endownment to support athletes..other than personnel salaries varies among Nescac schools.  Williams sought a rebuild of its football facilities after the famous "mud bowl game" in Nov. 1995.  The NYT covered the game events for three days and had the banner..."Amherst wins 0-0 tie from Williams in mud" on Nov.11.  The sought after facilities was completed about 20 years later. Meanwhile Amherst's new facility was completed earlier.  Amherst's Prez told alums that any new
facility must be funded separate from normal fundraising efforts.  It was done by a small number of alums and friends...the major portion by the father of a player.  All schools have a "friends of athletics" org. that provide additional funds to sports like equipment needs, I believe.  There is a large endowed professorship named for the DARP...the late great HFC at Amherst.  This professorship is rotated among the "academic" faculty.  Cannot remember if a head coach ever held it.  Yes, each school has
its path to support its athletic teams.  Like the proposed path taken by Trinity.
I have attended the Wesleyan homecoming event several times.  It is a fun time watching the number of sports events wins and losses both.  Best of all is meeting people/friends.  Would like to see Trin8-0 receive a donation from poster Nescacman.  Maybe pay to see the occasion.

Amh63...we'll stick to football, for now...our sources in Mammothland tell us that, although nicked up, Hickey will try to give it a go tomorrow in what is sure to be the NESCAC GOTW...

As you know, some of our correspondents are alums of numerous schools in the 'CAC, including Wes and Amhurst. Amh63, you are an officer and a gentleman and are always welcome at our tailgate...

BTW, Hickey is not listed as a starter on the Amhurst website, for whatever its worth...

[amh63]

Nescacman...thanks for the invite, etc.  Will catch the football game online on Sat.....the soccer game with the Cardinals later tonight.  Yes, I did note that Hickey was Not listed as a starter in the Amherst preview.  He was listed last week but did not play or was dressed.  Guess, he will be dressed this week. .
Interesting story appeared online at the Amherst website today.  A generous alum and his family have funded both the men women soccer team programs!  A reception event was held on campus for the announcement with the soccer coaches , team members, Prez ,etc.  Amherst is now following the lead of Trinity.  wow!  Writeup online does not state that alum was a scholarship student from the Pioneer Valley.  He played baseball and soccer at Amherst.
The Amherst Science Building will have it's GRAND opening on Sat....my error

[lumbercat]

Middhoops-
Will will the Oklahoma rifle tomorrow--or will it be Willy Jernigan ?

[middhoops]

Middhoops-
Will will the Oklahoma rifle tomorrow--or will it be Willy Jernigan ?

No inside info here, but Midd appears now to be a 'run first' team and Jernigan is the runner.  He had 24 rushes last week, right?
Ask Vandy74.  Better contacts and insights.

[lumbercat]

Maybe ole Vandy will weigh in if we get you guys to take some time out from bird dogging those pre season Panther hoop workouts.