FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[lumbercat]

This program is reflective of the fact that the Trinity commitment to Football is above and beyond the level of other NESCACs.
Maybe someone associated with Trinity can confirm if this program is still in place but I know for a fact it certainly was 3-4 years ago when I last confirmed.  It also extends back a number of years prior to that.

[jumpshot]

Breaking news for all lord jeffs/mammoths continually obsessed with Williams College: Announced today that Ephs earn 17th consecutive #1 ranking by U.S. News and World Report and 22 of 24 Directors' Cups....

[Trin9-0]

Trinity does not employ dedicated tutors for the football team. All athletic teams at Trinity have at least one faculty/staff liaison (although there appears to be 3 current vacancies). It appears that there are 22 faculty/staff liaisons currently and some serve in this role for multiple teams.

If interested, you can read all about the program and the role of the liaisons here.

I know at one point (certainly when I was at Trinity in the early '00s) there was mandatory study hall for first year players and those below a certain GPA. It was proctored by an upperclassmen as a work/study job (I did that as well).

[amh63]

It should be noted that each sports program at Amherst has a faculty adviser...the adviser is listed on the bottom of the roster.
Have to relate several stories here again for some of the newer posters.  Amherst has had several star players in relative recent years that had younger brothers become star players at Trinity.  Before an upcoming game between Trinity and Amherst, the senior Amherst RB was asked by several defensive players if he would be bothered if they "hit/tackle" his bigger younger RB brother.  The Amherst player stated...." go ahead, I hit him all the time growing up" (paraphrasing somewhat here).  It was nice to see their parents change sides during halftime.
Again, not so far back, during a football game halftime, several Amherst players were honored.  Both players had their fathers on the sidelines...the fathers, classmates at Williams, also played football.  Would have liked to hear their recruiting stories .
Each year, the Trinity vs. Amherst game is a battle.  Amherst's chances improve when it is NOT in the COOP.  This year, the game...late in the season..will be at Pratt Field.

[nescac1]

That makes a lot more sense, Trin 8-0.  As described, it sounded decidedly .... un-NESCAC. 

[Trin9-0]

I think lumbercat overstates the things Trinity does institutionally for football in relation to the other top teams in the league. For example, both Amherst and Williams have faculty/staff liaison programs. It's a wonderful program and I'm glad it's in place but I don't think it's winning them any additional games.

Yes, Trinity has done an incredible job with it's career networking program, but that was completely created by the coaching staff and alumni volunteers.

Trinity employs 9 full time coaches. Tufts appears to have 10, Wesleyan also has 9, Amherst and Williams have 8 apiece. The rest of the leagues looks to have either 6 or 7 (depending on who may or not be a volunteer).

I do seem to recall lumbercat sharing budgets for NESCAC football programs but declined to state where the information came from. Given that Trinity's endowment per student ranks 8th among schools in the league, and is less that a quarter than those at Williams and Amherst, I find it nearly impossible that Trinity is significantly outspending those rivals in terms of their annual football budgets, if at all.

NESCAC endowment per student:
1. Williams $1,288,660
2. Amherst $1,286,101
3. Bowdoin $896,476
4. Hamilton $521,081
5. Colby $431,925
6. Middlebury $431,809
7. Wesleyan $308,123
8. Trinity $269,500
9. Bates $176,833
10. Tufts $161,237

Trinity, like every other program, has several significant donors who support football. But I would, once again, be surprised if they are getting far more money from donors than Williams and Amherst, if at all.

There is strong support at games from alumni and students, but that's more a result of consistent winning than some added institutional focus on athletics in general or on football in particular.

[footballluv]

I think lumbercat overstates the things Trinity does institutionally for football in relation to the other top teams in the league. For example, both Amherst and Williams have faculty/staff liaison programs. It's a wonderful program and I'm glad it's in place but I don't think it's winning them any additional games.

Yes, Trinity has done an incredible job with it's career networking program, but that was completely created by the coaching staff and alumni volunteers.

Trinity employs 9 full time coaches. Tufts appears to have 10, Wesleyan also has 9, Amherst and Williams have 8 apiece. The rest of the leagues looks to have either 6 or 7 (depending on who may or not be a volunteer).

I do seem to recall lumbercat sharing budgets for NESCAC football programs but declined to state where the information came from. Given that Trinity's endowment per student ranks 8th among schools in the league, and is less that a quarter than those at Williams and Amherst, I find it nearly impossible that Trinity is significantly outspending those rivals in terms of their annual football budgets, if at all.

NESCAC endowment per student:
1. Williams $1,288,660
2. Amherst $1,286,101
3. Bowdoin $896,476
4. Hamilton $521,081
5. Colby $431,925
6. Middlebury $431,809
7. Wesleyan $308,123
8. Trinity $269,500
9. Bates $176,833
10. Tufts $161,237

Trinity, like every other program, has several significant donors who support football. But I would, once again, be surprised if they are getting far more money from donors than Williams and Amherst, if at all.

There is strong support at games from alumni and students, but that's more a result of consistent winning than some added institutional focus on athletics in general or on football in particular.

This annual discussion of why Trinity kicks everyone's ass in Football is getting so damn old. Nothing they do is out of the reach of any of the other programs. Most all d3 football programs have limited investment in Football. NESCAC investment in football is overall very limited. They do more with the small investments that NESCAC schools nvest in football.

[Heftylefty]

The recruits that Trinity can get into their school are most definitely "out of the reach" of the other schools in their league. Their pool of prospective students is much larger due to lower academic standards.

[lumbercat]

My info on the Tutors and the study halls came directly from Trinity players and parents. I noted it was information that was 3 or 4 years old but its a factual representation of the program they had in place at that time.

Lets not confuse faculty advisors with tutors. Faculty advisors are very prevalent in multiple sports in most if not all the Nescac schools.

I think this is/was a great program at Trinity and wished others might follow their lead. The parents I know were thrilled with the tutors which really helped their kids academically during their FY when many students struggle.

The program has helped Trinity expand their recruiting efforts and has been a nice part of a winning program.

I'll say it again for the last time as we move onto Saturday. They have a tremendous support network which includes many. They have tremendous
support from admissions and faculty which can be a significant impediment in other NESCAC venues. And they have a very strong financial commitment from the college regardless of their endowment. They like to win and they walk the walk in terms of their commitment to winning Football from top to bottom.

[lumbercat]

Football Luv

FL: "Nothing they do is out of the reach of any of the other programs"..........

You are way off here.


FL: "NESCAC investment in football is overall very limited. Trinity does more with the small investments that NESCAC schools nvest in football"............

You don't know what you are talking about here. The top program in the NESCAC, Trinity spends in excess of 800,000. The bottom end of the condference is closer to 450,000
Maybe these expenditures are "limited" in your estimation but when the top programs are spending a lot more than others it reflects a big difference in the commitment to Football among NESCAC schools.

I don't know why, at the end of the day the Trinity contingent can't say---we're good because we take pride in our commitment to winning football and doing what we need to do to win. I credit them for that but some Bants seem uncomfortable with it. I say they do a great job.

[footballluv]

Football Luv

FL: "Nothing they do is out of the reach of any of the other programs"..........

You are way off here.


FL: "NESCAC investment in football is overall very limited. Trinity does more with the small investments that NESCAC schools nvest in football"............

You don't know what you are talking about here. The top program in the NESCAC, Trinity spends in excess of 800,000. The bottom end of the condference is closer to 450,000
Maybe these expenditures are "limited" in your estimation but when the top programs are spending a lot more than others it reflects a big difference in the commitment to Football among NESCAC schools.

I don't know why, at the end of the day the Trinity contingent can't say---we're good because we take pride in our commitment to winning football and doing what we need to do to win. I credit them for that but some Bants seem uncomfortable with it. I say they do a great job.

Are you saying that all the other programs need to do to win is spend $350,000 more a year on football? Again the spending on football in this league is "limited" and all sports in this league are essentially non revenue generating and the students are paying tuition.  I don't believe and we went thru the recruiting process with Trinity Tufts, Wesleyan, Bowdoin, and Colby.  I repeat they are NOT doing anything  that is "Out of the reach" of the other programs.  Your numbers are proof of that. I am not in the "Trinity contingent". Last year it was the Hartford State BS and previous posts about Trinity's academic standards and on field demeanor etc etc.  Sour grapes in disguise as objectivity. Beat em and shut up and Williams beat them last season. Finally the Trinity contingent does say "we're good because we take pride in our commitment to winning football and doing what we need to do to win". They did not call themselves "Hartford State".

[bantamweight]

So this is what NESCAC trash talk looks like?

[ITH radio]

Straight cash homie

[Trin9-0]

The top program in the NESCAC, Trinity spends in excess of 800,000. The bottom end of the condference is closer to 450,000

Where are you coming up with these figures? Until you provide any legitimate source I just can't put any stock in the numbers you're reporting. What could Trinity possibly spending $350,000 on annually that Bates, Hamilton, Bowdoin, etc. aren't?

One or two extra coaching salaries with benefits don't cost that much. Off-campus recruiting isn't allowed, so it can't be a travel budget. All NESCAC schools attend recruiting camps, and regardless, Trinity has a higher percent of local (CT/MA) players than any team in the conference. Video equipment is largely a one-time expense, a new jersey or pair of pants are added every 4 to 5 years or so. Your numbers just don't add up to me. Please cite a source or just stop spouting these baseless figures.

The recruits that Trinity can get into their school are most definitely "out of the reach" of the other schools in their league. Their pool of prospective students is much larger due to lower academic standards.

This isn't Harvard vs. Alabama. The vast majority of kids on any NESCAC roster would be/are accepted at multiple other NESCAC schools. I'm not denying that Trinity has an advantage, but it's not about the top players/difference makers on their roster. The best players in the NESCAC are often tips. They are a tip at Trinity and would be a tip at Williams, or Amherst, or Bowdoin, or wherever.

In my opinion, Trinity's recruiting advantage is it's depth. They are able to accept some students without using a tip who may not be accepted at the most selective league schools. Williams and Amherst have their own recruiting advantages. They're able to get more borderline Ivy kids based on reputation. This gives them more access to top-end talent but not necessarily the depth that Trinity has. It's one of the reasons Amherst was so good while Williams was down. They compete head-to-head for many of the same top end players. Now that Williams is back on the upswing, Amherst has clearly taken a (small) step back. The advantage that all three school have is a tradition of winning. That's an understated factor, as is continuity which both Trinity and Amherst enjoy.

[Pat Coleman]

I don't know the source of the numbers used above, but each school which receives federal financial aid dollars is obliged to file an annual report to the U.S. Department of Education, and athletics spending is among the data:

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/