FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[The Mole]

Gotcha. Non-factor in the end but I get your point. Generally, the Achilles Heel(s) of Wesleyan all year has been inability to "put teams away" and poor tackling/giving up big plays in the secondary. Played with fire versus Bates, Bowdoin, Tufts and this one burnt them. Cards had lots of squandered opportunities vs Mammoths and they walked through the door that was left open. Hope you beat Trinity and Williams.

On the final drive of regulation, Amherst converted a fourth and 1 in the tight red zone with their heavy personnel package. After the first down was granted, Amherst moved to the line quickly to spike the ball to preserve their last remaining timeout (this is the timeout Wes could have made us burn by running an actual play on third down rather than punt). For some reason (I would say inexplicable but NESCACman assures me there is logic in everything) Wes was in the middle of a personnel change (Amherst kept the heavy personnel on the field) and so Dice had to burn a timeout just as Amherst was about to spike the ball.

Seemed needlessly sloppy to me although in the end it didn't factor into the outcome as Amherst scored on the very next play anyway. Still saved us a down though.

[Nescacman]

On the final drive of regulation, Amherst converted a fourth and 1 in the tight red zone with their heavy personnel package. After the first down was granted, Amherst moved to the line quickly to spike the ball to preserve their last remaining timeout (this is the timeout Wes could have made us burn by running an actual play on third down rather than punt). For some reason (I would say inexplicable but NESCACman assures me there is logic in everything) Wes was in the middle of a personnel change (Amherst kept the heavy personnel on the field) and so Dice had to burn a timeout just as Amherst was about to spike the ball.

Seemed needlessly sloppy to me although in the end it didn't factor into the outcome as Amherst scored on the very next play anyway. Still saved us a down though.

The timeout had absolutely zero to do with "a substitution error"...Wesleyan wasn't in the right defense had Lord Jeffrey decided to run a play and called a timeout (which we think is appropriate)...getting the right defense called at a critical juncture in the game we think is worth the time out...

As far as punting on third down, Wesleyan punted on 3rd down twice during the game both when they were deep in their own territory with a lot of yards to gain when it was pouring...the first time it was 3rd and 16 and the second time it was 3rd and 24...both times, the conditions were horrible and rather than risk a muffed snap, blocked kick or long return, Wes was betting on their defense to stop the LJs and get the ball back in a better spot than they punted from...remember, Wes was winning at that point...sure you can question the strategy if you want, but you had to be there to experience how bad the conditions were...we think all things being equal...field/game conditions, Wes's defense playing well, alternative bad things that could have happened...it was the right call... 

[Nescacman]

I watched most of the Amherst-Wesleyan game and as a Lord Jeff fan I believe that the summary NESCACMAN put out there is spot on.   The weather did impact the game, slowing down the better offense in Wesleyan and giving Amherst a fighter's chance to win the game.   Hard to argue that the officiating wasn't a little bit in our favor although for the life of me I cannot understand why a home game for Wesleyan would have ended up with such a disparity.   Anyway, kudos to NESCACMAN for a good write-up!

Thanks JEFFFAN...

[Nescacman]

Nescacman: too much of your monologue cites excuses and what-ifs, comments more likely made by young fans, rather than experienced competitors who have experienced and accept the volatility of athletics. Keep in mind NESCAC games have always been for the players ... perhaps keeping that viewpoint in mind will add value to your reporting.

Huh??? Excuses and what-ifs???

-Fact (as corroborated by several other LJ fans on the thread): The weather was horrendous.

-Fact (as corroborated by several other LJ fans on the thread): The officiating was bad.

And to quote our post: "....just our opinion....conjecture and it doesn't matter because the Lord Jeff's won the game. End of story."

Jumpshot, based on your name, you are a hoop fan or maybe even a player...maybe you should keep your comments on the NESCAC hoop board and off the football board because clearly you have zero clue of what you are talking about with regard to NESCAC football... 

[AmherstStudent05]

Respectfully, I think you need to take another look at that play, my man. Wes had people running on and off the field after the first down conversion. They were definitely substituting. (Or at least trying to) Also, it was beyond clear (at least from the webcast, I suppose Dice may have theoretically had an obstructed view) that Breckenridge was simply preparing to spike the ball (although maybe Dice called TO because he smelled the classic Marino fake spike coming!).

And this is probably beating a dead horse at this point but with under three minutes to play, Dice should care less about "getting the ball back in a better spot than they punted from."  There was less than three minutes to go in the game! At that point any stop by the Wes D effectively ends the game. Field position could explain the first third down punt (which is why We have never quarreled with it) but not the second.

[Nescacman]

Sounds trite and overworked but you will see significant changes at Bates in the offseason. Look for major scale housecleaning initiative within the Football program after the season is over.
There will be significant changes and upgrades to the program.

Bates and Colby very even teams despite 3 years of the Cosgrove factor and huge leaps in the area of administrative support on Mayflower Hill.

The feeling in Lewiston is despite the program being in complete turmoil with depleted roster and coaching staff they would beat Colby if Costa doesn't get hurt. They played very competitively in other games as well.

A lot of coulda, woulda, shoulda but when you are at a low point with your program but are playing competitively with some very good programs the planned changes will have very profound influence moving forward.

Already 15 "commits" and 11 class of '22 guys staying for another year and this number could grow.

Despite a very tough year there is an immense amount of optimism despite having to start over from scratch on the failed rebuilding project that began in 2018.

Do not know how old he is but Coach Caputi from Middlebury would be a great choice for that program. He would have flexibility to hire and the academic admissions are not as stringent as it is at Middlebury. Again he would have to deal with administration. The timing could be right since Middlebury seems to be on a decline  , administration toughening academic requirements and several top recruits offered have gone elsewhere. Timing may be right.

The same HCOF Caputi that failed miserably the last time he was head man at a Maine NESCAC school??? As a reminder, his career record in 15 years as HCOF at Bowdoin was 35-85 with a .291 winning percentage...come on, we're sure UBates can do much better than that....we could give you at least 3 names of NESCAC coordinators who are younger, hungrier and more qualified than a guy like Caputi who had his chance...

[AmherstStudent05]

Just to be clear, at least as far as this Lord Jeff fan is concerned. Apart from our disagreement about Dice's coaching decisions, I thought your write-up of the game was generally fair.

I do think a Wes fan could fairly walk away from this game thinking that the better team was done in by the weather, penalties and, again, in my humble opinion, coaching. (This is not to take away from the Amherst players who on the whole played a tremendous game and certainly weren't outclassed by Wesleyan talent-wise).

I don't think I conceded the officiating was bad however. Yes, there was a massive penalty disparity. But the main thrust of my original post was that disparity was largely "earned" by Wes (and for the most part the Wes announcers seemed to agree with me).

Yes, there was that one critical personal foul penalty at the end of the game that certainly hurt Wesleyan. I didn't see enough for myself to call anything either way but I am prepared to believe Whalen (who I found to be an honest broker) that this was a bad call. But I wouldn't turn one arguably bad call — albeit a critical one — into "bad" officiating. For the most part, it seemed that Wes got what they deserved on the penalty front.

(Speaking of Whalen and the officiating, eagle-eye Whalen noticed that on fourth down in the first overtime the official handling the ball was careless with it and dropped it on the wet grass and did not dry it before setting it down for play. Sure enough, a bad Wes snap ruined that play. I did not witness that myself but thought it was worth sharing).

[Nescacman]

Respectfully, I think you need to take another look at that play, my man. Wes had people running on and off the field after the first down conversion. They were definitely substituting. (Or at least trying to) Also, it was beyond clear (at least from the webcast, I suppose Dice may have theoretically had an obstructed view) that Breckenridge was simply preparing to spike the ball (although maybe Dice called TO because he smelled the classic Marino fake spike coming!).

And this is probably beating a dead horse at this point but with under three minutes to play, Dice should care less about "getting the ball back in a better spot than they punted from."  There was less than three minutes to go in the game! At that point any stop by the Wes D effectively ends the game. Field position could explain the first third down punt (which is why We have never quarreled with it) but not the second.

We'll agree to disagree on the second one...not sure you were at the game but the field and weather were really bad...Wes did not think the LJs could throw the ball at that point and they weren't able to run all day....so assuming the punt got to the 40-45 yard line, which it did, Wes was betting that the LJs wouldn't be able to put together a drive with a FY QB in bad weather with the pressure on...obviously it didn't work out for Wes so hindsight is 20/20...

Surprised no one brought this one up...in the first OT, Wes had the ball first...4th and goal from the 1...do you kick the FG or go for the TD? Wes went for the TD and did not score (the play was an incredible effort by Estevez, btw, that almost worked)...then Lord Jeffrey had the ball and Breckenridge throws a pick...Wes kicks the FG on their possession and they win...tough to say it would have played out that way because the LJs might have called different plays had they been down by 3 but interesting food for thought...

[The Mole]

Repeat, I see your point. I had a coach in youth football say "one play can win the game, but one play does not lose the game". Cards had MANY chances --the quote applies here. I am a Wesleyan fan and am not making excuses or being a homer. Unlike some "others" I try to remain unemotional and objective. It was a non-factor in the outcome. I'll end with another quote from my high school coach (RIP): "There will be no IFs, gentlemen....IF my aunt had two balls she's be my uncle!" I can count at least half dozen IFs before or after that.....

Respectfully, I think you need to take another look at that play, my man. Wes had people running on and off the field after the first down conversion. They were definitely substituting. (Or at least trying to) Also, it was beyond clear (at least from the webcast, I suppose Dice may have theoretically had an obstructed view) that Breckenridge was simply preparing to spike the ball (although maybe Dice called TO because he smelled the classic Marino fake spike coming!).

And this is probably beating a dead horse at this point but with under three minutes to play, Dice should care less about "getting the ball back in a better spot than they punted from."  There was less than three minutes to go in the game! At that point any stop by the Wes D effectively ends the game. Field position could explain the first third down punt (which is why We have never quarreled with it) but not the second.

[The Mole]

nescacthey/them:

I referenced much earlier that if you can't gain a yard you do not deserve to win. How many bad snaps were there at that point?  Have to get a good snap, hold and good footing for a kick? Easier to get a yard. And WE didn't

Respectfully, I think you need to take another look at that play, my man. Wes had people running on and off the field after the first down conversion. They were definitely substituting. (Or at least trying to) Also, it was beyond clear (at least from the webcast, I suppose Dice may have theoretically had an obstructed view) that Breckenridge was simply preparing to spike the ball (although maybe Dice called TO because he smelled the classic Marino fake spike coming!).

And this is probably beating a dead horse at this point but with under three minutes to play, Dice should care less about "getting the ball back in a better spot than they punted from."  There was less than three minutes to go in the game! At that point any stop by the Wes D effectively ends the game. Field position could explain the first third down punt (which is why We have never quarreled with it) but not the second.

We'll agree to disagree on the second one...not sure you were at the game but the field and weather were really bad...Wes did not think the LJs could throw the ball at that point and they weren't able to run all day....so assuming the punt got to the 40-45 yard line, which it did, Wes was betting that the LJs wouldn't be able to put together a drive with a FY QB in bad weather with the pressure on...obviously it didn't work out for Wes so hindsight is 20/20...

Surprised no one brought this one up...in the first OT, Wes had the ball first...4th and goal from the 1...do you kick the FG or go for the TD? Wes went for the TD and did not score (the play was an incredible effort by Estevez, btw, that almost worked)...then Lord Jeffrey had the ball and Breckenridge throws a pick...Wes kicks the FG on their possession and they win...tough to say it would have played out that way because the LJs might have called different plays had they been down by 3 but interesting food for thought...

[Nescacman]

Just to be clear, at least as far as this Lord Jeff fan is concerned. Apart from our disagreement about Dice's coaching decisions, I thought your write-up of the game was generally fair.

I do think a Wes fan could fairly walk away from this game thinking that the better team was done in by the weather, penalties and, again, in my humble opinion, coaching. (This is not to take away from the Amherst players who on the whole played a tremendous game and certainly weren't outclassed by Wesleyan talent-wise).

I don't think I conceded the officiating was bad however. Yes, there was a massive penalty disparity. But the main thrust of my original post was that disparity was largely "earned" by Wes (and for the most part the Wes announcers seemed to agree with me).

Yes, there was that one critical personal foul penalty at the end of the game that certainly hurt Wesleyan. I didn't see enough for myself to call anything either way but I am prepared to believe Whalen (who I found to be an honest broker) that this was a bad call. But I wouldn't turn one arguably bad call — albeit a critical one — into "bad" officiating. For the most part, it seemed that Wes got what they deserved on the penalty front.

(Speaking of Whalen and the officiating, eagle-eye Whalen noticed that on fourth down in the first overtime the official handling the ball was careless with it and dropped it on the wet grass and did not dry it before setting it down for play. Sure enough, a bad Wes snap ruined that play. I did not witness that myself but thought it was worth sharing).

BTW, we will add that we thought the Lord Jeff's played hard and did enough to win...not taking anything away from the players or coaches...the dancing on the logo at the end of the game was a little much, in our opinion, however it's been a tough couple of years for these kids, particularly at Amhurst State Prison, so I suppose a little irrational exuberance is to be expected after such an emotional Little 3 game...

And for those Purple Cow fans out there thinking they are just going to blow through the Cards this Saturday on their way to a 9-0 season, don't count your Bantams before they hatch...

[Nescacman]

nescacthey/them:

I referenced much earlier that if you can't gain a yard you do not deserve to win. How many bad snaps were there at that point?  Have to get a good snap, hold and good footing for a kick? Easier to get a yard. And WE didn't

Respectfully, I think you need to take another look at that play, my man. Wes had people running on and off the field after the first down conversion. They were definitely substituting. (Or at least trying to) Also, it was beyond clear (at least from the webcast, I suppose Dice may have theoretically had an obstructed view) that Breckenridge was simply preparing to spike the ball (although maybe Dice called TO because he smelled the classic Marino fake spike coming!).

And this is probably beating a dead horse at this point but with under three minutes to play, Dice should care less about "getting the ball back in a better spot than they punted from."  There was less than three minutes to go in the game! At that point any stop by the Wes D effectively ends the game. Field position could explain the first third down punt (which is why We have never quarreled with it) but not the second.

We'll agree to disagree on the second one...not sure you were at the game but the field and weather were really bad...Wes did not think the LJs could throw the ball at that point and they weren't able to run all day....so assuming the punt got to the 40-45 yard line, which it did, Wes was betting that the LJs wouldn't be able to put together a drive with a FY QB in bad weather with the pressure on...obviously it didn't work out for Wes so hindsight is 20/20...

Surprised no one brought this one up...in the first OT, Wes had the ball first...4th and goal from the 1...do you kick the FG or go for the TD? Wes went for the TD and did not score (the play was an incredible effort by Estevez, btw, that almost worked)...then Lord Jeffrey had the ball and Breckenridge throws a pick...Wes kicks the FG on their possession and they win...tough to say it would have played out that way because the LJs might have called different plays had they been down by 3 but interesting food for thought...

WE agree with the call...just throwing it out there for others...btw, we asked several college/HS coaches we know and the vote was pretty much split 50/50 on that point...

Also agree, WE went back and watched the game again....MANY lost opportunities for the Cards...onto Billville....

[The Mole]

FOR "YOU"

I (singular) formally request that YOU (consortium/undefined) update handle to nescacthey/them to use some form of plural as I am offended. 

FWIW, the officiating was not good, officials had no control of the game. However, it would be a hollow excuse for why Cards lost. Several chances despite the untimely and lousy calls to put the game away. Can't get a yard? Do not deserve to win.


"As we discussed a few weeks ago, no more tiebreakers if teams end up with the same record at the top of the NESCAC....we'll have co-champs, period, end of story..."

More on today's game in Middletown tomorrow, but for those of you that were either there or watched the game on-line would love to hear some opinions on the officiating today...

[nescac1]

I don't think any Eph fans, players or coaches are expecting an easy game Saturday.  Not when the Ephs haven't beaten Wes in nearly a decade and not when Estevez is a threat to break a big one on any given play.  Is Williams the better team?  It seems so.  But not so much better that the Ephs can have an off game (like they did vs Tufts) and win.  Trinity was just a great match-up for the Ephs.  Wesleyan is like Williams more physical.  Should be a great game. 

[lumbercat]

Nescacman: too much of your monologue cites excuses and what-ifs, comments more likely made by young fans, rather than experienced competitors who have experienced and accept the volatility of athletics. Keep in mind NESCAC games have always been for the players ... perhaps keeping that viewpoint in mind will add value to your reporting.

Huh??? Excuses and what-ifs???

-Fact (as corroborated by several other LJ fans on the thread): The weather was horrendous.

-Fact (as corroborated by several other LJ fans on the thread): The officiating was bad.

And to quote our post: "....just our opinion....conjecture and it doesn't matter because the Lord Jeff's won the game. End of story."

Jumpshot, based on your name, you are a hoop fan or maybe even a player...maybe you should keep your comments on the NESCAC hoop board and off the football board because clearly you have zero clue of what you are talking about with regard to NESCAC football...

NM-

Agree with your analysis. In really adverse conditions a punt on third down can be a very sound move. Not sure how many Footballs they have on hand these days.  I know it's exponentially more difficult to maintain reasonably dry footballs on natural turf. The snappers hand didn't have to be broken to prevent the execution of a 15 yard long snap with a greased watermelon football. I know that first hand. Trust me.

However NM I wouldn't play the bad officiating card. In the last minute of the Bates game a Bobcat WR on a corner route was literally horse collared by a Colby DB on the 5 yard line. The kid was beat so bad I have no doubt he was going to take the penalty rather than give up the TD..................NO CALL.

Garcelon Field went nuts, totally unbeleivable. I wasn't going to bring that up but my point is the officiating in this conference is totally pathetic for everyone. It's a shame to see any team lose on a bad call in the waning minutes of a game. Check the Bates Colby tape- a shame.