FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[lumbercat]

Coyne is in the process of hiring a few more coaches see we are expecting imminent announcement(s).
With the accolades I hear about Coach Stanley I hope you are correct.

[Charlie]

Coyne is in the process of hiring a few more coaches see we are expecting imminent announcement(s).
With the accolades I hear about Coach Stanley I hope you are correct.

Again I hope it is him he was an outstanding player at Penn State and has had multiple DL go all star in the NESCAC every year as a Coach at Wesleyan. He has produced many all stars year after year Taj Gordon , Linberg , Helbig to name a few. If he does land at Bates the Landscape will change in a few years in my opinion with Bates replacing Wesleyan at that 3 spot in NESCAC.

[lumbercat]

Charlie-
In doing some checking this morning-  it seems to be a forgone conclusion that Stanley will not be on the Cards staff much longer or has already left.
However, tight lips on the matter in Lewiston but you may be right on this.

[nescac1]

I think Wesleyan's star-power at DL (several of whom were huge impact players right away as first years) is more a product of recruiting very talented players than coaching typical NESCAC defensive linemen up.  I do not see any universe where Bates is in the three spot in NESCAC anytime in the foreseeable future.  As we've discussed quite a bit, the Maine schools are at a geographical disadvantage vs. the rest of NESCAC, and recruiting will always be an uphill battle.  Especially when you are going against other schools with long-established traditions of football excellence.  Making it tougher on Bates is that Colby and Bowdoin both already are on clear upwards trajectories with excellent leadership recruiting talented players.  Williams, Amherst, Trinity, Wesleyan, Tufts, and Midd all have well-established coaches who are proven recruiters and leaders.  Moving up even a spot or two in the NESCAC pecking order is enormously difficult right now, as opposed to the 1990s through until fairly recently, when there always seemed to be several programs - sometimes 3-4 - in deep disarray.  Now, NESCAC is rock solid across the board and the opportunity to move from, say, 9th or 10th to 3rd or 4th quickly just does not exist, the competition is just too fierce.  If Bates can win the CBB, that alone would be a strong accomplishment. 

Speaking of coaching changes, Dan Hunt followed Blumenauer to F&M, where he will serve as his offensive coordinator.  Hunt continues to be, frankly, overqualified for a D3 coordinator spot, so great move for Blumenauer.  Long-time Raymond guy Nick Hennessey will be the new offensive coordinator for the Ephs.  I expect the Ephs will be adding at least one more coach to the offensive side of the ball, as well.  The timing is probably as good as it could be for Williams because, frankly, there are very few QBs other than Maimaron who could run, at a high level, the system Williams used last year. 

[Charlie]

I think Wesleyan's star-power at DL (several of whom were huge impact players right away as first years) is more a product of recruiting very talented players than coaching typical NESCAC defensive linemen up.  I do not see any universe where Bates is in the three spot in NESCAC anytime in the foreseeable future.  As we've discussed quite a bit, the Maine schools are at a geographical disadvantage vs. the rest of NESCAC, and recruiting will always be an uphill battle.  Especially when you are going against other schools with long-established traditions of football excellence.  Making it tougher on Bates is that Colby and Bowdoin both already are on clear upwards trajectories with excellent leadership recruiting talented players.  Williams, Amherst, Trinity, Wesleyan, Tufts, and Midd all have well-established coaches who are proven recruiters and leaders.  Moving up even a spot or two in the NESCAC pecking order is enormously difficult right now, as opposed to the 1990s through until fairly recently, when there always seemed to be several programs - sometimes 3-4 - in deep disarray.  Now, NESCAC is rock solid across the board and the opportunity to move from, say, 9th or 10th to 3rd or 4th quickly just does not exist, the competition is just too fierce.  If Bates can win the CBB, that alone would be a strong accomplishment. 

Speaking of coaching changes, Dan Hunt followed Blumenauer to F&M, where he will serve as his offensive coordinator.  Hunt continues to be, frankly, overqualified for a D3 coordinator spot, so great move for Blumenauer.  Long-time Raymond guy Nick Hennessey will be the new offensive coordinator for the Ephs.  I expect the Ephs will be adding at least one more coach to the offensive side of the ball, as well.  The timing is probably as good as it could be for Williams because, frankly, there are very few QBs other than Maimaron who could run, at a high level, the system Williams used last year.

I have to disagree on several points. The DL Coach certainly has a say on who gets recruited. There is not one person that recruits all positions. True they have territories but each position Coach looks at his recruits  , numbers them and then puts them into their admissions bands. So the fact that Stanley has had these players means he looked at film and gave his stamp of approval. Which means he in fact recruited them. After that he has coached them up and had many all stars. I do know though having the rug pulled out from him by admissions on the top DE that went to Trinity did not sit well with Coach Stanley & Coyne. They both wanted him and admissions pulled the plug on this. I am not sure what that may or may not have played into the exodus at Wesleyan.

While I agree that Bates and the other Maine teams are at a disadvantage because of Geography. I believe geographically Bates has a better location. In fact they had the smallest roster of any NESCAC program. Which means in the next two years they will be able to fill the roster with players from the new coaching staff. I also agree with you that it will not occur overnight. However even with a roster like last year Bates finished ahead of Middlebury , Hamilton and Bowdoin. I understand that Bates lost there QB and that will be big no denying that. However I think that since this school admissions wise is not as stringent as the other Maine schools and Hamilton and Middlebury will enable Coach Coyne staff to attract players.

Which means they would really need to pole vault ahead of Tufts and Amherst and lets take into consideration that Wesleyan Coaching staff is decimated now that they have lost Archer , Coyne and potentially Stanley. In fact they have lost 5 coaches from their 2020 roster that is some serious turnover. I would not be the least bit surprised if this program takes a few steps backwards next year and after. In fact the exact same can be said for Amherst & Tufts whose coaching decisions and recruitment leave one scratching their heads.

Again not saying it will occur next year but certainly Bates football will be in a short period of time

[SpringSt7]

It seems pretty tough to give the nod to coaches for developing players when they really only work with the players for about 12 weeks out of the year. And once the season starts you are doing a lot more game planning and preparation work than development. Not sure how much credit you can give for "coaching them up" to be quite frank. One of the reasons that recruiting is so important in the NESCAC---even if you are great at developing underrated talent you have such a small window to do so.

[Charlie]

It seems pretty tough to give the nod to coaches for developing players when they really only work with the players for about 12 weeks out of the year. And once the season starts you are doing a lot more game planning and preparation work than development. Not sure how much credit you can give for "coaching them up" to be quite frank. One of the reasons that recruiting is so important in the NESCAC---even if you are great at developing underrated talent you have such a small window to do so.

Remember these Coaches have had these same players now for two years as well as two Spring practices. There are countless film sessions , lifting , meetings so to say they only have them for 12 weeks is not accurate. They are developing them all year. In addition they are in contact with them throughout the year.

[The Mole]

Coaching (and staff consistency) is critical, no doubt. Better players are more important (recruiting). If you switched coaching staffs on teams in the league with personnel staying the same on every team, would the results be much different? I don't think it would change dramatically.

As stated earlier here, the competitive balance in the league is probably at an all-time high. It is very difficult to make a significant jump up the standings. Each institution has its plusses and minuses, but the historical results and programs are insightful. The top, middle and bottom have not changed all that much over the last 30 years (since 92).

Trinity 188-48
Williams 169-65-2
Amherst 165-70-1
Middlebury 147-89
Wesleyan 130-106
Colby 104-131-1
Tufts 98-137-1
Bowdoin 62-173-1
Hamilton 61-175
Bates 53-183

Coaches coach and players play. Not about the Xs and Os, its the Jimmies and the Joes.

[nescac1]

Per The Mole's last comment, Kelton went 8-0 with Mike Whalen's recruits, and Raymond went 0-8 with Kelton's recruits.  QED. 

[lumbercat]

.........................................  Making it tougher on Bates is that Colby and Bowdoin both already are on clear upwards trajectories with excellent leadership recruiting talented players.

...................................... If Bates can win the CBB, that alone would be a strong accomplishment. 

Nescac 1-

I agree strongly with most of your points about the NESCAC as a whole.
There is certainly no question that the league is more competitive than ever. It is extremely difficult to elevate a program to a point where it can surpass the perennial elites at the top.

I also agree that it's very unlikely that Bates surpasses Wesleyan and achieves a position in the top 3 in the next 3 years.

However, when you say "if Bates can win just win the CBB" and Bowdoin and Colby are "clearly on upward trajectories" with Bates at a disadvantage, I think the jury is out on that.

Colby has made great cultural advances within the program but Cosgrove himself will tell you they have underachieved expectations in terms of Wins.
Bowdoin is rebuilding also but have gone 2-16 under Hammer.

Don't overlook the record when you cast Bates in the rearview mirror of Bowdoin and Colby.  I'd say not so fast......In the last 10 years Bates is 9-1 against Bowdoin and has won 7 of 10 CBB titles so my point is that Bates has prevailed in the CBB despite coaching issues and a great deal of turmoil which is pretty well known here.

The feeling in Lewiston is that the Bates program officially began on that upward trajectory during Matt Coynes interview with the search committee. Following the interviews, without hesitation everyone looked at each other and said "Thats our guy".

So let's make room for the Bobcats on that upward trajectory train which is already rolling in Lewiston with the benefit a strong leader who is committed to building a winning NESCAC program and knows how to do it.  Coyne is the guy after having a front row seat in Middletown watching and learning from The Whale and Dice while they rebuilt the Wesleyan program.

It's going to be fun to watch.

[SpringSt7]

Remember these Coaches have had these same players now for two years as well as two Spring practices. There are countless film sessions , lifting , meetings so to say they only have them for 12 weeks is not accurate. They are developing them all year. In addition they are in contact with them throughout the year.

None of the additional activities occur at a frequent rate in the offseason and most would fall under voluntary activities that would have to occur without the coaching staff present. The spring practices is a fair point and useful addition but I would still stand by the fact that it is very hard to develop your players outside of what you have in season. Recruiting is going to trump whatever player development progress can be made every time.

[nescac1]

Fair points lumbercat.  Bowdoin and Colby are talked about here so much, I forgot that Bates had so much success relative to them.  I was really impressed by Bowdoin's young skill guys last year, especially that TB who was a massive steal, but they need to show they can recruit around those guys. 

[Charlie]

Fair points lumbercat.  Bowdoin and Colby are talked about here so much, I forgot that Bates had so much success relative to them.  I was really impressed by Bowdoin's young skill guys last year, especially that TB who was a massive steal, but they need to show they can recruit around those guys.

Bowdoin made a great deal of offers in 2022 but missed its mark on many players. I am curious to see if Bates starts to really turn its program around will Colby and Bowdoin perhaps allow more C Band recruits into their program to catch up or will they care at all. A recent article publsihed just stated that Bowdoin had the most applicants for admissions in history. Just wonder if they will ever relly care about the success of their program

[lumbercat]

Fair points lumbercat.  Bowdoin and Colby are talked about here so much, I forgot that Bates had so much success relative to them.  I was really impressed by Bowdoin's young skill guys last year, especially that TB who was a massive steal, but they need to show they can recruit around those guys.

The kids name is Andre Eden and he is the most dangerous, talented back in the NESCAC.......Hammer also had the best back in the league preceding Eden in the person of  Nate Richam. All NESCAC RB 2 years.     BJ's gotta figure out a way to win with these gifted backs that every other NESCAC school covets.

[NescacFam]

To your point Lumbercat... With Nate Richam and Andre Eden, Bowdoin has had two All-NESCAC running backs in the past few years. What Bowdoin has not had, until the third game last season, is a quarterback. It has been painfully obvious that opposing coaches first priority has been to stop the run, knowing that any combination of McCrum, Marcantano, and Stalccup was not a threat to push the ball downfield. With Boel at the helm, Bowdoin will finally have a more balanced attack. Backup quarterback Robbie Long is also talented and might push for reps in training camp. It's the first time in a long time that Bowdoin's offense will be in capable hands.

If Boel starts versus Hamilton in the first game of the season, Bowdoin probably wins that game. If the kicker had made a 27 yard field goal as time expired vs. Bates, Bowdoin would have won that game, too. As Bill Parcells once said, you are who are record says you are. No doubt 2-16 is not the start Hammer was hoping for. But there is reason for optimism in the program.