FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[SpringSt7]

Lumbercat - the coaches understand the uneven playing field they face today.  Most coaches want an even playing field and they will play anybody

Spring ST 7- most players enjoy a spring practice when they understand how it is organized.  If they go elsewhere, they will still have a spring practices.  Players want to win.

Candidly, I think you would be surprised to find that most players are comfortable doing the minimum. If they really wanted to win, there are plenty of other programs in other leagues that put a greater premium on football. A lot of these guys want to win yes and the great players do all that it takes to win, but the junior 6th string WR? He would rather go to Rome for the spring than do red zone installs.

[lumbercat]

Any NESCAC program will be pleased to shed the 6th string WR and anyone who is not committed.  What the coaches are saying with the move to Spring Practice is it will enable them to cull out those who are not fully committed and improve their programs.

[VoodooDoc]

Any NESCAC program will be pleased to shed the 6th string WR and anyone who is not committed.  What the coaches are saying with the move to Spring Practice is it will enable them to cull out those who are not fully committed and improve their programs.

Lumbercat is absolutely right.  A team needs players that are committed to the goal of winning in order to be successful. 

[LochNescac]

Any NESCAC program will be pleased to shed the 6th string WR and anyone who is not committed.  What the coaches are saying with the move to Spring Practice is it will enable them to cull out those who are not fully committed and improve their programs.

6th string yes...but...many starters & a whole bunch of backups feel the same way.  These kids didn't go D2, or some obscure D1 to play football.  They enrolled to exercise networks, study abroad, and ultimately launch their careers.  If football (or any sport) practice begins to jeopardize those goals they will make choices if they have conflicts.  After all; this is "Pay to Play".  There are no NFL paychecks in their future.

Football is not the ultimate focus of MANY of these players....they enjoy it, work hard, are good athletes, (some very good) but are realists & have a broad focus.   Coaches are always looking for guys who will practice all day & night & put athletics over all else, but that's not gonna happen in this league, or so I've been told..?

I have nothing against Spring Ball, and realize the benefits to it.  I understand the coaches desires and how it prepares for post season and all the other positives but I think we have to remember we are on the NESCAC board!

Every kid on the roster is committed to winning...we aren't debating that.  It's the cost of that commitment that is a sliding scale to many of these players and their families.

As for culling players en masse; certainly works in Athens & Columbus...not so sure about Clinton & Amherst.

And yes; I'm betting internships trump spring ball...if push comes to shove.

(opinion only...could be & likely to be off base!?)

[Charlie]

I know the ultimate consensus among NESCAC coaches is the aspiration to a 10 game schedule with playoff eligibility.
Voodoo makes a great point and I agree. It can't all happen at once so they are starting with spring practice.
Following the adoption of spring practice the next step will be playoff eligibility and possibly, hopefully a 10th game.
A good plan by the coaches which makes sense.

From the beginning this has been a very well crafted campaign by the coaches based on equity for Football within the NESCAC athletic programs. Their presentation to Administrative decision makers had to be masterful based on all the unsuccessful failed initiatives within NESCAC Football I have observed since the 1990's.

I still can't believe it but it's obvious that the equity stance goes a long way.

One interesting factor to consider at the Liberal Arts College level. The NESCAC is a strong proponent of Semester abroad programs. If this spring is implemented and sounds like it is the Coaches were all in favor of kids leaving for this opportunity. I am not so sure how this will be viewed going forward. Unless the students take a Winter semester overseas. In which case they will be missing lifting programs. This is another factor that will come into play. I know the numbers are small that go away but still a factor.

[NESCACFball24/7]

Phil lutz went abroad last spring before his senior year skipping spring practices and was just fine coming back. Each program is going to approach it differently but guys know it will affect playing time and take that into consideration. Let's not over complicate it. The way the nescac operates for football is archaic and everyone knows it. Baseball and lacrosse have fall ball and spring practice for football is no different.

I also think as schools start to recruit outside of New England these old school nescac rules(no playoffs, no spring practice, etc) are falling out of favor quickly especially when trying to get kids from states that frankly value football more.

[Charlie]

Phil lutz went abroad last spring before his senior year skipping spring practices and was just fine coming back. Each program is going to approach it differently but guys know it will affect playing time and take that into consideration. Let's not over complicate it. The way the nescac operates for football is archaic and everyone knows it. Baseball and lacrosse have fall ball and spring practice for football is no different.

I also think as schools start to recruit outside of New England these old school nescac rules(no playoffs, no spring practice, etc) are falling out of favor quickly especially when trying to get kids from states that frankly value football more.


Agreed great reasoning on out of state schools

[HerdNerd]

I concur with NESCACFball24/7's point, that NESCAC practice restrictions could be a shock to many recruits, especially from states outside NE like FL/GA/TX.  Over the summer FL high school players, for example, have mandatory practice, lifts, and film five days a week.  They also typically play weekly, coach-supervised 7v7 against other programs.  Spring football is six weeks and typically includes a live, officiated game against another program.  A college program that is limited to 12 weeks annually (three weeks pre-season, nine-game season) represents roughly 40% of what these kids are accustomed to.  This is to say nothing about the lack of playoff opportunity at the end of the regular season, which is the ultimate focus for virtually every high school program in the country.  I understand it's partially the unique culture of the NESCAC, but many of these 17 year-old recruits have already learned the virtue of year-round commitment in the pursuit of a team goal.  And this virtue does not seem incompatible with the educational missions of NESCAC schools.

Another issue raised recently is the delay of the beginning the pre-read date.  I do think this could have a negative impact on NESCAC programs, particularly if other D-III programs such as Johns Hopkins, U Chicago, Wash U, Carnegie Mellon, MIT, etc. can offer a recruit a "highly likely" indication months before the NESCACs can.  As a practical matter, if a recruit has an "highly likely" from, say, JHU over the summer and can't get an equivalent indication from Williams or Amherst until mid/late September, all JHU needs to do is make the offer exploding at the end of August.  I assume 10 out of 10 kids would take that bird-in-hand and enjoy getting to work on their ED application months earlier and before their regular season begins.  Seems like a policy to reduce the summer workload for admission officers to the detriment of getting kids with other options (presumably the ones we want) to apply to NESCAC schools.

[VoodooDoc]

Phil lutz went abroad last spring before his senior year skipping spring practices and was just fine coming back. Each program is going to approach it differently but guys know it will affect playing time and take that into consideration. Let's not over complicate it. The way the nescac operates for football is archaic and everyone knows it. Baseball and lacrosse have fall ball and spring practice for football is no different.

I also think as schools start to recruit outside of New England these old school nescac rules(no playoffs, no spring practice, etc) are falling out of favor quickly especially when trying to get kids from states that frankly value football more.

Your points are well taken.  An upper classman can miss spring practice.  Underclassmen really need the time to work with position coaches coming out of the COVID era.  How many internships occur in the spring and not the summer?  Those doing the semester abroad, tend to be upperclassmen so missing a spring football session can occur without an adverse impact on the team.

As the Nescac recruits players from areas of the country that place a high value on football, it does hurt recruiting.  Most players in D3 don't expect to be playing in the NFL, but winning a championship and/or  playing the playoffs is the reward that culminates their football careers.  I know a number of Wabash players who made the playoffs in 2002 after a 23 year hiatus, and they take great pride in this accomplishment. 

[unionpalooza]

As a bystander I find the NESCAC playoff debate fascinating.  I guess I've always assumed the real reason for not entering the playoffs is that none of the schools would want to do what it takes to be nationally competitive in D3 football.  Clearly they theoretically COULD be - they dominate a good majority of other D3 sports, and there's no reason to think they couldn't deploy their advantages to build several nationally strong programs in football, too.  But football is simply such a large numbers sport that it's hard to be academically flexible with 10% of your male student body without making a statistically meaningful dent in your acceptance and admissions numbers.  It's no accident that the D3 schools with continued national success either (1) are using successful football as a way to attract a lot of paying male students (UMBH, Mt. Union, etc.) or (2) already have very high acceptance rates.  But if you only have a few thousand students and care a lot about your numbers, the path is very, very narrow.  (I think the most telling stat is that no college with an acceptance rate below 65% has played in the Stagg Bowl since the 80s.)

Obviously you all are vastly closer to the NESCAC than me - does any of that resonate?

[The Mole]

Totally makes sense. Hard to make a natty with a roster lower than 100 players, let alone 76. NESCAC can compete in other sports nationally without the need of a large roster. Recruiting becomes more critical and you cannot miss, but with the sheer # of bodies needed for football, it is not realistic to make a really deep run. They could win a game, maybe two and once in a blue moon catch a favorable draw to make the semis but not likely. Year in and out, there are actually maybe 6 to 8 teams that REALLY have a shot.

Trinity TX made the Stagg in 2002, but that appears to be the only one with an acceptance rate lower than 65%. A true outlier along with your newly named Garnet Chargers in 50 years. Incredible stat and reinforcing point how difficult it truly is......

As a bystander I find the NESCAC playoff debate fascinating.  I guess I've always assumed the real reason for not entering the playoffs is that none of the schools would want to do what it takes to be nationally competitive in D3 football.  Clearly they theoretically COULD be - they dominate a good majority of other D3 sports, and there's no reason to think they couldn't deploy their advantages to build several nationally strong programs in football, too.  But football is simply such a large numbers sport that it's hard to be academically flexible with 10% of your male student body without making a statistically meaningful dent in your acceptance and admissions numbers.  It's no accident that the D3 schools with continued national success either (1) are using successful football as a way to attract a lot of paying male students (UMBH, Mt. Union, etc.) or (2) already have very high acceptance rates.  But if you only have a few thousand students and care a lot about your numbers, the path is very, very narrow.  (I think the most telling stat is that no college with an acceptance rate below 65% has played in the Stagg Bowl since the 80s.)

Obviously you all are vastly closer to the NESCAC than me - does any of that resonate?

[unionpalooza]

Totally makes sense. Hard to make a natty with a roster lower than 100 players, let alone 76. NESCAC can compete in other sports nationally without the need of a large roster. Recruiting becomes more critical and you cannot miss, but with the sheer # of bodies needed for football, it is not realistic to make a really deep run. They could win a game, maybe two and once in a blue moon catch a favorable draw to make the semis but not likely. Year in and out, there are actually maybe 6 to 8 teams that REALLY have a shot.

Trinity TX made the Stagg in 2002, but that appears to be the only one with an acceptance rate lower than 65%. A true outlier along with your newly named Garnet Chargers in 50 years. Incredible stat and reinforcing point how difficult it truly is......

As a bystander I find the NESCAC playoff debate fascinating.  I guess I've always assumed the real reason for not entering the playoffs is that none of the schools would want to do what it takes to be nationally competitive in D3 football.  Clearly they theoretically COULD be - they dominate a good majority of other D3 sports, and there's no reason to think they couldn't deploy their advantages to build several nationally strong programs in football, too.  But football is simply such a large numbers sport that it's hard to be academically flexible with 10% of your male student body without making a statistically meaningful dent in your acceptance and admissions numbers.  It's no accident that the D3 schools with continued national success either (1) are using successful football as a way to attract a lot of paying male students (UMBH, Mt. Union, etc.) or (2) already have very high acceptance rates.  But if you only have a few thousand students and care a lot about your numbers, the path is very, very narrow.  (I think the most telling stat is that no college with an acceptance rate below 65% has played in the Stagg Bowl since the 80s.)

Obviously you all are vastly closer to the NESCAC than me - does any of that resonate?

Thanks much for that correction - I had no idea Trinity (TX) was that selective, which just shows my East coast bias.  And they're small - just 2,600 students.  Make their success, both past and current, all the more successful. 

[lumbercat]

I would never have guessed that Trinity U in Texas has a lower acceptance rate than Trinity Ct. but they do. Given the offer I would have bet heavily the other way....... and lost.

[unionpalooza]

I would never have guessed that Trinity U in Texas has a lower acceptance rate than Trinity Ct. but they do. Given the offer I would have bet heavily the other way....... and lost.

Same here.  In the USNWR ranking (crap as it is) they sit right around Connecticut College, Wabash, Wheaton, and Gettysburg. 

[Scoops]

Peak NESCAC thinking right here. I've always found the unwarranted elitist mentality that comes from this league amusing at best. Especially given the sheer number of high academic D3 programs around the country. While I do believe you're likely to have higher level athletes in the NESCAC, there's a lot of schools nationwide that can provide an equal experience. From Carleton to Washington University in St Louis, Pomona Pitzer, Claremont McKenna, Chicago University. Kenyon College. Hopkins. Rochester. MIT. Worcester Polytech. Just to name a few. All schools that I believe could compete easily with any NESCAC school, and likely demolish the bottom half of the league.

I would never have guessed that Trinity U in Texas has a lower acceptance rate than Trinity Ct. but they do. Given the offer I would have bet heavily the other way....... and lost.