FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Nescacman]

Speaking of Wes...we think Wes might sweep the players of the week for week #3. They can make a case for Chase Wilson on offense (10 catches for 158 yards and 4 touchdowns) and Wesley Abraham on defense (2 picks, 1 TFL and 1 forced fumble from his corner spot) in their dismantling of the Alexander Hamilton's . More on that game and the rest later...

[Nescacman]

Congratulations to Wesleyan WR Chase Wilson on being named the winner of this week's Golden Helmet Award:

https://newenglandfootballwriters.com/2023-gold-helmet-winners

[MammothDad]

I know this message board is about FB primarily and all due respect to the schools who beat my Mammoths.

This is just a question of curiosity, NOT A SLIGHT, but how does the NESCAC oversee academic eligibility standards?

It does seem, per observation of the few posts I have read on this board, that some individual schools "add to" the league minimums, so to speak.  And more power to them.  Kind of like Notre Dame and Stanford in D1 FBS FB.

But does the NESCAC publish what an A, B or C "Band" student is?  Or does each school do that individually?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Separate question, how does the Trinity Coach recruit and develop such talent, given that the NESCAC does not participate in the D3 Playoffs?  I would think to get kids who are willing to work so hard at FB, as it appears they do, the kids might feel a little cheated to not be able to go on and see how far they can do in the playoffs.

Respect to Trinity and the hard work their kids put in.  It will be interesting to see if Wesleyan, Middlebury or a "trap game" can give them a close game and/or L.  That last week match up at Wesleyan looks like a standing room only game.  I hope I can be there!

[nescac1]

One of the biggest differences at this point among the teams doing well in NESCAC and those not IS the roster size issue.  I do think if as rumored rosters are once again capped at something like 75-80 guys it will help parity quite a bit.  Some of these schools are bringing in 25-30 or even 35 plus recruits is some years and that's just a dramatic difference from a place like Williams where you can bring in roughly around 20 per year.  Obviously with a roster of 100 guys vs. a roster of 75 guys, there is a huge advantage to the team with 25 percent more players to draw from on any given day. 

For the Ephs, I really think the biggest issue is depth, this year's team is paper-thin and as inevitable injuries pile up, the team begins to have glaring holes.  The Williams front-line talent is solid enough at most positions but when guys (inevitably) quit the program or get injured or a few just don't pan out for whatever reason, suddenly the drop-off is huge and very noticeable.  Williams was down two out of three defensive line starters for much of the Tufts game and the guys who were left were absolutely exhausted.  The D was OK in the first half but just had nothing left in the second.  And it didn't help that Berlutti had the entire center of the field open to run through on EVERY single play seemingly (especially some back-breaking third and longs) and the defense never made any adjustments to the scheme to keep someone around to spy on him a bit (yes, you lose a guy in deep coverage but at least make him beat you down the field rather than an easy 15 yards on the ground on 3rd and 12).  Fischetti is the best TB in NESCAC and single-handedly kept Williams in the game for awhile, but when he comes out the entire offense feels different.  Etc. 

Williams did not succeed in any of my pre-game keys, admittedly, no doubt.  Berlutti for the second year in a row picked Williams apart both through the air and with his feet.  I think it's very clear he is still THAT GUY, it's just that Trinity is so much better than everyone else that playing them in the first game was too much to overcome.  He's just absolutely precise with every pass, a great runner, and makes every read, and of course has great weapons around him even without Lutz around.  The big passing plays were no surprise but the inability to get to him at all in terms of pass rush and just letting him run wild in wide open spaces was dispiriting.  I really don't put that much blame on the defense though, the Tufts offense is (a) very good, (b) as mentioned, Williams was down two big bodies up front, and when Vilfort went out things went downhill fast and (c) the defense was absolutely, visibly exhausted in the second half as the offense could not sustain a drive.  All of those three-and-outs were just an absolute killer, especially the several series where it seemed like Williams brought Dickinson in just to run a third and four QB sneak up the middle which the defense was totally keyed in on.  You just have to give you defense more help than that by sustaining a few long drives per half (at a minimum). 

The offense continues to be a disaster outside of Fischetti who was bouncing off guys left and right for big plays even with eight to nine in the box.  McHugh's stats were indeed awful but he was not nearly as bad as the stats made him look.  For whatever reason (maybe because he's pretty slight and they want to protect him) the coaches didn't let him run barely at all other than on one great running play that was negated by a very iffy penalty.  He needs to be a true dual-threat guy to succeed especially given the weapons around him.  He threw a perfect deep ball that was dropped for what should have been one TD.  Later on, he threw another pass that looked like it should have been a TD but for a receiver getting a bit twisted around.  He needs to improve some of his reads as he does force the ball at times into coverage and has to look more to his second option downfield, but at the same time, he needs to more help from everyone around him, all of the offensive units shoulder part of the blame.   I still think he looks like a talented QB who if his decision making improves over time and if he's put into better situations (and maybe unleashed just a bit more earlier in games) can make big things happen.  As for the TB depth, it just seems like it's Fischetti or bust this year unless Marvan can make an appearance and make an impact, and who knows if either will ever happen. 

[Charlie]

I know this message board is about FB primarily and all due respect to the schools who beat my Mammoths.

This is just a question of curiosity, NOT A SLIGHT, but how does the NESCAC oversee academic eligibility standards?

It does seem, per observation of the few posts I have read on this board, that some individual schools "add to" the league minimums, so to speak.  And more power to them.  Kind of like Notre Dame and Stanford in D1 FBS FB.

But does the NESCAC publish what an A, B or C "Band" student is?  Or does each school do that individually?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Separate question, how does the Trinity Coach recruit and develop such talent, given that the NESCAC does not participate in the D3 Playoffs?  I would think to get kids who are willing to work so hard at FB, as it appears they do, the kids might feel a little cheated to not be able to go on and see how far they can do in the playoffs.

Respect to Trinity and the hard work their kids put in.  It will be interesting to see if Wesleyan, Middlebury or a "trap game" can give them a close game and/or L.  That last week match up at Wesleyan looks like a standing room only game.  I hope I can be there!

I have tried to answer this question but get ridiculed by people on the board. Football in NESCAC starts at the top in admissions. Years ago Amherst had for a lack of better words slightly easier admission standards. Therefore they were able to attract recruits and get more talented players. The admissions department wants academics first and foremost and not looking to side step on recruiting. As I have stated before Amherst could have 100+ players on their roster easily. Now would this players be top level recruits and turn the program around maybe not. However you could  always develop and potentially find a diamond in the ruff. If a student football player can get in academically on his own without a Coach using a chip on him why not take him ? The same theory applies to Williams.  These schools simply choose academics over football and prioritize them more. This is Division 3 football. This is also why these two schools were the two schools against spring football.

I believe there can be a balance and the numbers can be the same. As stated in prior posts the roster sizes will be adjusted going forward in the next couple of years. So there could perhaps be balance. I still believe no matter what you have to recruit well. If you are starting a Freshman QB means your recruiting in prior years faltered. Very rarely can a high school player make the jump at this position and succeed as a freshman. I know there are the Berluti's of the world but far and few between. When you use up recruiting on four to five QB in one year you are in trouble. Look at Trinity they have arguably the best QB in the league and developing QB every year and bringing in new ones. In fact This past weekend they brought in a freshman QB in mop up time to get him experience. Now I am not saying the kid is going to be the next star of the League but they are constantly developing instead of plugging holes.

There is no defining what band a player falls in it is different from school to school. Each school allows so many players at various academic levels and that is why the band levels. Historically the lower bands designated for impact players and skilled positions.

[MammothDad]

I have tried to answer this question but get ridiculed by people on the board. Football in NESCAC starts at the top in admissions. Years ago Amherst had for a lack of better words slightly easier admission standards. Therefore they were able to attract recruits and get more talented players. The admissions department wants academics first and foremost and not looking to side step on recruiting. As I have stated before Amherst could have 100+ players on their roster easily. Now would this players be top level recruits and turn the program around maybe not. However you could  always develop and potentially find a diamond in the ruff. If a student football player can get in academically on his own without a Coach using a chip on him why not take him ? The same theory applies to Williams.  These schools simply choose academics over football and prioritize them more. This is Division 3 football. This is also why these two schools were the two schools against spring football.

I believe there can be a balance and the numbers can be the same. As stated in prior posts the roster sizes will be adjusted going forward in the next couple of years. So there could perhaps be balance. I still believe no matter what you have to recruit well. If you are starting a Freshman QB means your recruiting in prior years faltered. Very rarely can a high school player make the jump at this position and succeed as a freshman. I know there are the Berluti's of the world but far and few between. When you use up recruiting on four to five QB in one year you are in trouble. Look at Trinity they have arguably the best QB in the league and developing QB every year and bringing in new ones. In fact This past weekend they brought in a freshman QB in mop up time to get him experience. Now I am not saying the kid is going to be the next star of the League but they are constantly developing instead of plugging holes.

There is no defining what band a player falls in it is different from school to school. Each school allows so many players at various academic levels and that is why the band levels. Historically the lower bands designated for impact players and skilled positions.

Charlie,

I saw the snark and regret that but I am new to the NESCAC and just trying to catch up.  I'm sure the more knowledgeable will get tired of my questions as well and zing me from time to time.

Thanks for your reply.

I just like to figure things out.  I know that an Amherst Coach told a kid with a 1500 SAT and 4.3 GPA he was a "C Band" recruit.  However, I know of other kids in the NESCAC that did not come close to the the above, if limited to GPA, SAT and rigor of courses taken, but ended up at other NESCAC Schools.

Just confused and curious and in search of the truth on the matter.

Thanks for your reply!

[MammothDad]

Expanding on my previous tag about Trinity ...

I looked at Forbes Top Colleges, being that it and the WSJ are the only to rank liberal arts colleges with Universities.

https://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/

I eliminated all scholarship programs AND fellow NESCACs because I concede that Trinity is rolling and IF FB is as equal consideration as academics, why not go to the current NESCAC top FB Program.  As for the scholarship, that's self explanatory.

But if a kid is as equally geeked on winning FB and playing FB as he is getting a prestigious education, why Trinity over the following D3 (NS PFL/FCS) Programs:

13.   Johns Hopkins University
20.   Georgetown University (nonscholarship)
28.   University of Chicago
36.   Pomona College
40.   Washington University in St. Louis
41.   Claremont McKenna College
56.   Washington and Lee University
58.   Davidson College (nonscholarship)
59.   Carnegie Mellon University

[Charlie]

I have tried to answer this question but get ridiculed by people on the board. Football in NESCAC starts at the top in admissions. Years ago Amherst had for a lack of better words slightly easier admission standards. Therefore they were able to attract recruits and get more talented players. The admissions department wants academics first and foremost and not looking to side step on recruiting. As I have stated before Amherst could have 100+ players on their roster easily. Now would this players be top level recruits and turn the program around maybe not. However you could  always develop and potentially find a diamond in the ruff. If a student football player can get in academically on his own without a Coach using a chip on him why not take him ? The same theory applies to Williams.  These schools simply choose academics over football and prioritize them more. This is Division 3 football. This is also why these two schools were the two schools against spring football.

I believe there can be a balance and the numbers can be the same. As stated in prior posts the roster sizes will be adjusted going forward in the next couple of years. So there could perhaps be balance. I still believe no matter what you have to recruit well. If you are starting a Freshman QB means your recruiting in prior years faltered. Very rarely can a high school player make the jump at this position and succeed as a freshman. I know there are the Berluti's of the world but far and few between. When you use up recruiting on four to five QB in one year you are in trouble. Look at Trinity they have arguably the best QB in the league and developing QB every year and bringing in new ones. In fact This past weekend they brought in a freshman QB in mop up time to get him experience. Now I am not saying the kid is going to be the next star of the League but they are constantly developing instead of plugging holes.

There is no defining what band a player falls in it is different from school to school. Each school allows so many players at various academic levels and that is why the band levels. Historically the lower bands designated for impact players and skilled positions.

Charlie,

I saw the snark and regret that but I am new to the NESCAC and just trying to catch up.  I'm sure the more knowledgeable will get tired of my questions as well and zing me from time to time.

Thanks for your reply.

I just like to figure things out.  I know that an Amherst Coach told a kid with a 1500 SAT and 4.3 GPA he was a "C Band" recruit.  However, I know of other kids in the NESCAC that did not come close to the the above, if limited to GPA, SAT and rigor of courses taken, but ended up at other NESCAC Schools.

Just confused and curious and in search of the truth on the matter.

Thanks for your reply!

This is perplexing part of admissions. Amherst & Williams brutally hard to get into and that is fine. However in doing so the school has to accept that they're sports teams and specifically in this case football will be lacking talent. I should not say they will be bad but not get the quality of player that other schools get. I too know some kids that were recruited and not able to get into Amherst & Williams that were accepted at Bowdoin. You can go to various web sites but the most recent one shows Williams , Amherst , Bowdoin , Tufts , Colby all at around 9  %. So it is difficult to get into these schools especially now since the schools have stated that Legacies are not guaranteed acceptance. I do see the landscape shifting somewhat as Bowdoin at least this year showing signs of having a successful winning season  , Colby and Tufts starting to become more competitive in the football sport than the perennial Williams and Amherst. Middlebury and Wesleyan year after year are steady. I think the advert of spring football will make the football teams better and more competitive.

I will not be the least surprised if in the next year or two the NESCAC does not go into playoffs or add an extra game. They are making strides slowly but surely.

[Charlie]

Expanding on my previous tag about Trinity ...

I looked at Forbes Top Colleges, being that it and the WSJ are the only to rank liberal arts colleges with Universities.

https://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/

I eliminated all scholarship programs AND fellow NESCACs because I concede that Trinity is rolling and IF FB is as equal consideration as academics, why not go to the current NESCAC top FB Program.  As for the scholarship, that's self explanatory.

But if a kid is as equally geeked on winning FB and playing FB as he is getting a prestigious education, why Trinity over the following D3 (NS PFL/FCS) Programs:

13.   Johns Hopkins University
20.   Georgetown University (nonscholarship)
28.   University of Chicago
36.   Pomona College
40.   Washington University in St. Louis
41.   Claremont McKenna College
56.   Washington and Lee University
58.   Davidson College (nonscholarship)
59.   Carnegie Mellon University

Most of these schools have larger student body populations. Some if not all of these kids like the small College size. In addition there close proximity to their homes.

If you also look at the rosters most of the schools I would say 70% of rosters are from the Northeast region. NESCAC is expanding across the country to get players as Tufts is really pushing for a diverse student body culture. In many instances really how the recruit feels about the campus the Coach and the success of the program. All of the above schools are excellent schools but the NESCAC has their own reputation of academics and sports much like the Ivy League.

[LochNescac]

I have tried to answer this question but get ridiculed by people on the board. Football in NESCAC starts at the top in admissions. Years ago Amherst had for a lack of better words slightly easier admission standards. Therefore they were able to attract recruits and get more talented players. The admissions department wants academics first and foremost and not looking to side step on recruiting. As I have stated before Amherst could have 100+ players on their roster easily. Now would this players be top level recruits and turn the program around maybe not. However you could  always develop and potentially find a diamond in the ruff. If a student football player can get in academically on his own without a Coach using a chip on him why not take him ? The same theory applies to Williams.  These schools simply choose academics over football and prioritize them more. This is Division 3 football. This is also why these two schools were the two schools against spring football.

I believe there can be a balance and the numbers can be the same. As stated in prior posts the roster sizes will be adjusted going forward in the next couple of years. So there could perhaps be balance. I still believe no matter what you have to recruit well. If you are starting a Freshman QB means your recruiting in prior years faltered. Very rarely can a high school player make the jump at this position and succeed as a freshman. I know there are the Berluti's of the world but far and few between. When you use up recruiting on four to five QB in one year you are in trouble. Look at Trinity they have arguably the best QB in the league and developing QB every year and bringing in new ones. In fact This past weekend they brought in a freshman QB in mop up time to get him experience. Now I am not saying the kid is going to be the next star of the League but they are constantly developing instead of plugging holes.

There is no defining what band a player falls in it is different from school to school. Each school allows so many players at various academic levels and that is why the band levels. Historically the lower bands designated for impact players and skilled positions.

Charlie,

I saw the snark and regret that but I am new to the NESCAC and just trying to catch up.  I'm sure the more knowledgeable will get tired of my questions as well and zing me from time to time.

Thanks for your reply.

I just like to figure things out.  I know that an Amherst Coach told a kid with a 1500 SAT and 4.3 GPA he was a "C Band" recruit.  However, I know of other kids in the NESCAC that did not come close to the the above, if limited to GPA, SAT and rigor of courses taken, but ended up at other NESCAC Schools.

Just confused and curious and in search of the truth on the matter.

Thanks for your reply!

Mammoth Dad....best advice I can give you is DO NOT try to make sense of this NESCAC dark arts....just sit back & enjoy the ride...seriously.

Too many variables ins & outs...Every case is unique, at least from what I've seen.  I can only offer a personal account;

A couple years ago we attended several large camps, started getting looks & were contacted by Hamilton via mail, text, phone, zoom, you name it.  We set up & had a great visit to Hamilton with my son, a WR.   

Was an excellent experience, coaches were great.  Mutual interest & had a sit down in the football offices.  The staff said in all honesty, his academic standing would be very tough to get past admissions but if we wanted, they would keep the process moving however...."It's highly unlikely that he'd be admitted..."

1400 SAT
4.3 GPA
STEM Engineering
Honors & advanced classes up the wazoo...
Accepted to Tulane & University of Miami

Our campus guide stated at the end of the meeting that "his academic resume would be at the very bottom of who we are selecting"

Soooo....It was what it was....I've long ago stopped looking for the answers.

[The Mole]

The A, B & C Bands vary widely school by school and even year by year
B Band at one institution could be C at one or more and not even on the radar at others
The key is in the transparency of the recruiter and where the student athlete is on the board and likely to admit or not
One school, which shall go un-named, makes a regular habit of ghosting recruits once transcripts are sent for pre-read and/or after encouraging to apply Early Decision
At least Hamilton was upfront and honest with you and your son about chances
To add, identifying the right recruits and beating other schools for them is even more critical, especially as the roster constraints come back into play...

[MammothDad]

THANK YOU both for your insights!

Yes, our son was "offered" (admission help) by Middlebury, Amherst, Bates, Colby and Bowdoin, after each school's pre-read was complete.

But Trinity and Williams never did.  In fairness to Trinity, they let it be known that they didn't get around to "offering" until SEP and my son wanted to commit soon, to avoid missing out.

He was interested in Tufts but could never get traction with their recruiting staff, like he did all of the above.

Thanks for the perspective and I guess it all remains a mystery, like the Ivy "bands" as well.

One thing we noticed about the Ivies, if the kid could ball, Coach seemed to get a lot of confidence in their admission process.



The NESCAC's were far more focused on academic eligibility than the Ivies, per our experience.  ALL of the Coaches said they were "hands off", until they heard back from the Admissions Office.

I'm definitely a big NESCAC fan now, being that NIL is destroying D1 football, in my opinion.  It's nice rooting for kids playing for the love of the game, knowing their college education is what will carry them through life after they hang up the cleats after their Senior season.

[jmcozenlaw]

I have tried to answer this question but get ridiculed by people on the board. Football in NESCAC starts at the top in admissions. Years ago Amherst had for a lack of better words slightly easier admission standards. Therefore they were able to attract recruits and get more talented players. The admissions department wants academics first and foremost and not looking to side step on recruiting. As I have stated before Amherst could have 100+ players on their roster easily. Now would this players be top level recruits and turn the program around maybe not. However you could  always develop and potentially find a diamond in the ruff. If a student football player can get in academically on his own without a Coach using a chip on him why not take him ? The same theory applies to Williams.  These schools simply choose academics over football and prioritize them more. This is Division 3 football. This is also why these two schools were the two schools against spring football.

I believe there can be a balance and the numbers can be the same. As stated in prior posts the roster sizes will be adjusted going forward in the next couple of years. So there could perhaps be balance. I still believe no matter what you have to recruit well. If you are starting a Freshman QB means your recruiting in prior years faltered. Very rarely can a high school player make the jump at this position and succeed as a freshman. I know there are the Berluti's of the world but far and few between. When you use up recruiting on four to five QB in one year you are in trouble. Look at Trinity they have arguably the best QB in the league and developing QB every year and bringing in new ones. In fact This past weekend they brought in a freshman QB in mop up time to get him experience. Now I am not saying the kid is going to be the next star of the League but they are constantly developing instead of plugging holes.

There is no defining what band a player falls in it is different from school to school. Each school allows so many players at various academic levels and that is why the band levels. Historically the lower bands designated for impact players and skilled positions.

Charlie,

I saw the snark and regret that but I am new to the NESCAC and just trying to catch up.  I'm sure the more knowledgeable will get tired of my questions as well and zing me from time to time.

Thanks for your reply.

I just like to figure things out.  I know that an Amherst Coach told a kid with a 1500 SAT and 4.3 GPA he was a "C Band" recruit.  However, I know of other kids in the NESCAC that did not come close to the the above, if limited to GPA, SAT and rigor of courses taken, but ended up at other NESCAC Schools.

Just confused and curious and in search of the truth on the matter.

Thanks for your reply!

Mammoth Dad....best advice I can give you is DO NOT try to make sense of this NESCAC dark arts....just sit back & enjoy the ride...seriously.

Too many variables ins & outs...Every case is unique, at least from what I've seen.  I can only offer a personal account;

A couple years ago we attended several large camps, started getting looks & were contacted by Hamilton via mail, text, phone, zoom, you name it.  We set up & had a great visit to Hamilton with my son, a WR.   

Was an excellent experience, coaches were great.  Mutual interest & had a sit down in the football offices.  The staff said in all honesty, his academic standing would be very tough to get past admissions but if we wanted, they would keep the process moving however...."It's highly unlikely that he'd be admitted..."

1400 SAT
4.3 GPA
STEM Engineering
Honors & advanced classes up the wazoo...
Accepted to Tulane & University of Miami

Our campus guide stated at the end of the meeting that "his academic resume would be at the very bottom of who we are selecting"

Soooo....It was what it was....I've long ago stopped looking for the answers.

I had a buddy who got into and played hoops for 2 years at Hamilton. He injured his knee pretty bad his sophomore year, was in love back home with a girl in the Philly suburbs, left Hamilton and slummed it at Ursinus (or.......Collegeville Community College.......for those who ride Trinity, or, Hartford State).

Never bothered with a Masters. Wound up on Wall Street (without an Ivy nor NESCAC degree), ventured out to the West Coast and has been a hedge fund/VC guy for over 25 years. He sweats money (and gives about 60% away.......to non-political causes). I joke with him about how successful he would have been had he stayed at Hamilton. I manage his scraps for him.......and always let him buy me dinner. Although, he's about to head out of San Fran like just about everybody else. Ursinus?!?!?! Who wudda thunk it???

[JEFFFAN]

Always helpful to revert back to the excellent Bowdoin Orient series on NESCAC athletics admissions from 2014:

https://bowdoinorient.com/bonus/article/9151

[Pat Coleman]

Never bothered with a Masters. Wound up on Wall Street (without an Ivy nor NESCAC degree), ventured out to the West Coast and has been a hedge fund/VC guy for over 25 years. He sweats money (and gives about 60% away.......to non-political causes). I joke with him about how successful he would have been had he stayed at Hamilton. I manage his scraps for him.......and always let him buy me dinner. Although, he's about to head out of San Fran like just about everybody else. Ursinus?!?!?! Who wudda thunk it???

If that guy ever feels like supporting a Division III sports news website, let me know.