FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Jonny Utah]

No question Hamilton looks to be a smaller team.

I always thought Hamilton had somewhat of an advantage being in upstate NY.  Still a lot of local talent in Rochester, Syracuse and Albany that I always figured would boost that program.  It is the same distance (if not closer) to NJ/PA so that can't be a factor.  Maybe the NE prep school players simply push the scales in the favor of the other Nescac schools?  I also have no idea what kind of institutional support the Hamilton football program gets.

[westcoastnescac]

What do you all have against rain games???All Maine fields are turfed. Show some grit

[oxen1999]

...how does the Trinity Coach recruit and develop such talent, given that the NESCAC does not participate in the D3 Playoffs?  I would think to get kids who are willing to work so hard at FB, as it appears they do, the kids might feel a little cheated to not be able to go on and see how far they can do in the playoffs.

Does your kid not work hard? Did the Amherst coaches concede they won't compete for championships when recruiting him? I wonder why your son didn't elect to go to a school that participates in the playoffs. Or, are you really just throwing shade after an embarrassing defeat?

One thing I will say about Amherst and Hamilton is the players on these teams look small. Amherst looked like a High School team size wise against that of Trinity. I understand that these players may not be D1 and working out all year round but think there is some kind of lifting program in place at these schools. I know the upper eichelon NESACA schools have programs in place.

Hamilton actually has a starting LT that plays at 5'11 234 lbs I mean what is going on at these schools is it that hard to find athletes.

Jake Gosselin is Hamilton FY OT listed at 5"11" 234. He is not a starter, has not started a game this year.

I do note that Sam Feldman OL listed at 6'0" 217 has started every game. Thinking the 217 weight must be a typo.

#54 played a great deal against Wesleyan dont know if started because of injuries or was replacement. At any rate speaks volumes about size differentail amongst some teams in the NESCAC if these two are OL.

Hamilton has been decimated by injuries from the start this year, especially on the offensive side of the ball. The offensive line has unfortunately had to depend on freshman in all 3 games so far.

[Charlie]

Lumber, you souring on Cosgrove, finally? You have been his #1 fan and touting Colby as an up and comer. Seems like Hammer is the one in Maine getting more results. I love Coyne, but he is 3-9. Seems to be a decent injection of talent in Lewiston. He needs a signature win outside of Maine. Another W over Amherst this week helps but knocking off Middlebury would say more about the progress.
What is your opinion on why Mills and Mammoths have been so weak on offense? Recruiting? Development? That is on him, correct?
Should Williams or Amherst ever not be in the top echelon? Do they not get the pick of the litter? Just hearing excuses...

I truly beleive there are no excuses. At minimum you get a few tips from admissions. Now I am not saying let in an unqualified student. But if you are telling me that you cannot get get out of a class of 20 recruits 3 to 4 impact players is shocking. Not all recruits are going to be impact players. However Mills at Amherst and Raymond at Williams have been terrible in their last three recruiting classes and this is the result.

Williams for example recruited 2 QB 2021 and failed on both , 2022 recruited 2 QB failed on those and had to start a WR at QB , this year 2023 recruited 3 and starting a Freshman. This is 7 Qb taken and only one pans out. We are not completely sure on the Freshman although there are signs he might be okay at the position. For a school that on average only accepts 20 recruits a year.  This is too many recruits being waisted. I understand recruiting a QB is difficult but when you are limited in your numbers you have to be better at recruiting at this position. Seems like they have more misses. In addition to create space you are then moving the QB to positions they may or may not have played. So you are now asking a recruit to play out of position against a player who has played the position and probably one of the best at there prospective positions. I think this is a great deal to ask for. I definitely see some shifting in the League of teams.

[The Mole]

You never disappoint me Charles

[MammothDad]

Does your kid not work hard? Did the Amherst coaches concede they won't compete for championships when recruiting him? I wonder why your son didn't elect to go to a school that participates in the playoffs. Or, are you really just throwing shade after an embarrassing defeat?

First, I regret you heard anything other than a complement and a question in my original post.

Does your kid not work hard?  He and all the kids at Amherst work hard.  I assume the other eight colleges have hard working kids as well.  AS I STATED IN MY ORIGINAL POST, its evident that Trinity kids work hard.

Did the Amherst coaches concede they won't compete for championships when recruiting him?  Nope.  Don't even see how that question is plausible from my earlier post.
However, I think its safe to say that some schools have higher academic requirements than others, allowing Trinity to recruit from a wider pool of candidates.  If Trinity has as high of academic requirements as Amherst and Williams, please educate me (and the others).

I wonder why your son didn't elect to go to a school that participates in the playoffs.  Because Amherst is rated the #2 LA College on US News, #8 and #11 and on WSJ and Forbes, respectively, which also factors in Universities in its list.

Or, are you really just throwing shade after an embarrassing defeat?  Again, no shade.  I showed respect to the hard work and good coaching of Trinity FB.  It was just an honest question, given that Trinity has kids from FL, CA, OH and other far away areas.  Many of those higher ranked schools are shorter travels.  Utica, Ithaca and Springfield are in the NE and won a game in the playoff.  Ithaca won 2 PO Games AND played in Yankee Stadium.  For a kid geeked on FB, those are attractive enticements.

I think ANY kid (applicable to ALL NESCAC athletes!) willing to give up time for free to play a sport are dedicated.  No slight, in any direction.  Only respect to all.

[lumbercat]

Correct Mole- I was high on Cosgrove. He has had a perfect situation at Colby a lot like Civetti when things changed at Tufts but we have not seen the progress in Waterville- you are right.

Coyne needs more time, 39 recruits added this year, more than 40% of the roster. It's still early in the rebuild. Took the Whale some time with a better Wes program to complete his rebuild.
I agree they need a signature win but not sure it's in the cards this year. They are at least a year away.

The decreased level of administrative support for Football is pretty well documented at Amherst in the past few year. Mills has proven himself as one of the better coaches in the conference over an extended period of time. He's the same coach but the level of support has diminished significantly. Tough to win anyplace without support from the top.

One given correlation in the NESCAC which is perennially reliable: The top NESCAC programs have the highest level of administrative support and flexibility.

[MammothDad]

When I first joined, I attempted to bring this up and the group slapped it down.  Going to try again, being that I DON'T SELL THE NESCAC and its fanbases short ...



Why NOT can Trinity (well placed Red Sox Alumnus) and Tufts (geography) and 2 other NESCAC schools rent Fenway for a day to play 2 games?

If Ithaca and Cortland can rent out Yankee Stadium, surely we can package 2 games (3 if the field can take it) to sell it out.

It's not like 35 K have to show up.  35 K just need to buy tickets and unused tickets can be given to students to attend AND to local Boston are charities.

35 K divided by four is 8,750.  Divided by 6 is 5,830.  The endowments are in the 100s of millions, if not billions in this league.  Surely, alums can buy and donate a ticket.  But I'm sure it would be heavily, organically attended as well, given the opportunity to play in such a memorable location and city.

There, I said it again and brace for the impact to come.  But I think this is an easily doable thing, if we get the movement going.

[westcoastnescac]

When I first joined, I attempted to bring this up and the group slapped it down.  Going to try again, being that I DON'T SELL THE NESCAC and its fanbases short ...



Why NOT can Trinity (well placed Red Sox Alumnus) and Tufts (geography) and 2 other NESCAC schools rent Fenway for a day to play 2 games?

If Ithaca and Cortland can rent out Yankee Stadium, surely we can package 2 games (3 if the field can take it) to sell it out.

It's not like 35 K have to show up.  35 K just need to buy tickets and unused tickets can be given to students to attend AND to local Boston are charities.

35 K divided by four is 8,750.  Divided by 6 is 5,830.  The endowments are in the 100s of millions, if not billions in this league.  Surely, alums can buy and donate a ticket.  But I'm sure it would be heavily, organically attended as well, given the opportunity to play in such a memorable location and city.

There, I said it again and brace for the impact to come.  But I think this is an easily doable thing, if we get the movement going.

Love this idea MammothDad

[The Mole]

+1million, love the idea as well

When I first joined, I attempted to bring this up and the group slapped it down.  Going to try again, being that I DON'T SELL THE NESCAC and its fanbases short ...



Why NOT can Trinity (well placed Red Sox Alumnus) and Tufts (geography) and 2 other NESCAC schools rent Fenway for a day to play 2 games?

If Ithaca and Cortland can rent out Yankee Stadium, surely we can package 2 games (3 if the field can take it) to sell it out.

It's not like 35 K have to show up.  35 K just need to buy tickets and unused tickets can be given to students to attend AND to local Boston are charities.

35 K divided by four is 8,750.  Divided by 6 is 5,830.  The endowments are in the 100s of millions, if not billions in this league.  Surely, alums can buy and donate a ticket.  But I'm sure it would be heavily, organically attended as well, given the opportunity to play in such a memorable location and city.

There, I said it again and brace for the impact to come.  But I think this is an easily doable thing, if we get the movement going.

[GroundandPound]

Bates over Amherst 2
Wesleyan over Colby 4
Trinity over Hamilton 5
Middlebury over Williams 3
Tufts over Bowdoin 1
5 = most confident
1 = least confident

[Jonny Utah]

+1million, love the idea as well

When I first joined, I attempted to bring this up and the group slapped it down.  Going to try again, being that I DON'T SELL THE NESCAC and its fanbases short ...



Why NOT can Trinity (well placed Red Sox Alumnus) and Tufts (geography) and 2 other NESCAC schools rent Fenway for a day to play 2 games?

If Ithaca and Cortland can rent out Yankee Stadium, surely we can package 2 games (3 if the field can take it) to sell it out.

It's not like 35 K have to show up.  35 K just need to buy tickets and unused tickets can be given to students to attend AND to local Boston are charities.

35 K divided by four is 8,750.  Divided by 6 is 5,830.  The endowments are in the 100s of millions, if not billions in this league.  Surely, alums can buy and donate a ticket.  But I'm sure it would be heavily, organically attended as well, given the opportunity to play in such a memorable location and city.

There, I said it again and brace for the impact to come.  But I think this is an easily doable thing, if we get the movement going.

It's not as hard as you think.  And I don't think Fenway "rents" it out.  They control the ticket sales and everything else.  They do it for HS games and actually make money off those from what I heard.  The field just has to be there for a d1 game first.  They aren't going to paint the lines or put goalposts up for a Nescac game or HS game. 

[westcoastnescac]

Could at least play a 1 pm / 6:30 pm slate at Harvard bowl when they're away

[The Mole]

Bates over Amherst 1
Wesleyan over Colby 4
Trinity over Hamilton 5
Middlebury over Williams 2
Tufts over Bowdoin 3
5 = most confident
1 = least confident

[Trin9-0]

Frankly- I'm not really bowled over by any NESCAC coaches.

I think almost any of the current coaches injected in the Trinity equation would achieve similar results to Lord Jeffrey.

Lumber, your distaste for Devanney has been well-chronicled on these pages, but how can you claim to not be impressed given what he has accomplished at Trinity? He recently surpassed the legendary Dick Farley for career victories (he's currently at 116) and has a winning percentage of .853. Not only is that the best in the history of NESCAC football, there are only seven college football coaches at ANY level who have EVER won a higher percentage of games than Jeff Devanney. And if I were a betting man, I'd say he moves up to 5th on this list by next month.

Does Trinity have some advantages? Sure; just like Tufts has a geographic advantage, and Wesleyan has an enrollment advantage, and Williams and Amherst have a US News and World Report advantage. But it's farcical to assume that you could just grab any coach off the street, throw them into the Coop and expect they would win at levels that are nothing short of historic.


For those interested, here's the list of career wins by NESCAC coaches:





   
   
   
   
   

   
   

   
   


   


   


   


   

COACH	SCHOOL	WINS	LOSSES	TIES	WIN %	UNDEFEATED SEASONS
Don Miller	Trinity	174	77	5	.689	1
Jim Ostendarp	Amherst	168	91	5	.646	2
Dan Jessee	Trinity	150	76	7	.659	4
E.J. Mills	Amherst	148	60	0	.712	4
Mickey Heinecken	Middlebury	126	96	2	.567	0
Jeff Devanney	Trinity	116	20	0	.853	4
Dick Farley	Williams	114	19	3	.849	6
Bob Ritter	Middlebury	112	61	0	.647	1