FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[The Ghost of John Wesley]

Tufts' stunning loss to Hamilton got me thinking about the worst losses for each NESCAC program. For Trinity, the 2021 blowout loss to Williams jumps to mind. It was by no means an upset as the Ephs finished that season 9-0, but the nature of the loss was shocking. At the risk of bringing up bad memories, I'm curious to hear from other posters what their respective programs' worst losses have been.

The biggest Wesleyan drubbing I personally witnessed was the 63-7 loss to Trinity in 2005. Literally looked like teams on entirely different levels (age, skill, etc.). Like a high school team vs. a college team.

The "worst" loss in recent memory was probably the game Wes dropped against Bowdoin last year. A major disappointment given the expectations and talent on paper.

[Nescacman]

Tufts' stunning loss to Hamilton got me thinking about the worst losses for each NESCAC program. For Trinity, the 2021 blowout loss to Williams jumps to mind. It was by no means an upset as the Ephs finished that season 9-0, but the nature of the loss was shocking. At the risk of bringing up bad memories, I'm curious to hear from other posters what their respective programs' worst losses have been.

OK, we'll take the bait.

As far as we are concerned, the Cardinals 1982 loss in Williamstown was far and away the worst. Not so much because of the score, but how we lost...last play of the game, after we took the lead with about 30 seconds left. Wes losses 27-24. Pretty bad. Definitely the worst we have seen for Wes in our 40+ years of being around the program. Way worse than Tufts this year, btw.

We'd also like to nominate on behalf of our Purple Cow friends, the 2016 tilt v. Wesleyan...Wes 59 Purple Cows 14. We think our Eph friends will have a tough time beating that one.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record since it came up last week - 2016 to Wesleyan was awful but it was really obvious by about September 1st of that year that it was not going to be a fun season in Williamstown. 2017 and 2019, both also to Wesleyan, hurt a little more in some ways. 2017 was the 30-0 drubbing in Maimaron's freshman year that really stung and in 2019 they lost in overtime after outgaining Wes 419-296 but Estevez returned a kick for a touchdown and they couldn't get the stop they needed at the end of regulation before losing in OT.

The 2019 loss wasn't awful in a vacuum but coupled with the Week 1 loss to Middlebury all of a sudden you realized they were just two stops away from going 9-0. I know they went 7-2 but they were the best football team that year. Don't think they got a trophy for that though.

Love the 2019 game...our fave Wes game of all-time for many, many reasons (barely beating the 2013 Little 3 win)...and will cherish the game ball that Coach Dice gave to NESCACMAN after that win for the rest of our life...the ball that David #8 carried into the end zone in OT to seal the win...if you want, we can bring it with us this Saturday if you want to touch it...#rollcards

[Nescacman]

Tufts' stunning loss to Hamilton got me thinking about the worst losses for each NESCAC program. For Trinity, the 2021 blowout loss to Williams jumps to mind. It was by no means an upset as the Ephs finished that season 9-0, but the nature of the loss was shocking. At the risk of bringing up bad memories, I'm curious to hear from other posters what their respective programs' worst losses have been.

The biggest Wesleyan drubbing I personally witnessed was the 63-7 loss to Trinity in 2005. Literally looked like teams on entirely different levels (age, skill, etc.). Like a high school team vs. a college team.

The "worst" loss in recent memory was probably the game Wes dropped against Bowdoin last year. A major disappointment given the expectations and talent on paper.

Ghost, the 2005 loss was bad, but not unexpected given how that year went for us. If you recall (and we're very sure you do), we were 0-8 in 2005 and that was when the winds of change started to blow in Middletown. Going winless was totally unacceptable. 2005 and 2008 were the two years that stick out in our mind why significant changes had to be made. Fortunately, the changes were made and the rest is history, as they say.

[maineman]

Tufts' stunning loss to Hamilton got me thinking about the worst losses for each NESCAC program. For Trinity, the 2021 blowout loss to Williams jumps to mind. It was by no means an upset as the Ephs finished that season 9-0, but the nature of the loss was shocking. At the risk of bringing up bad memories, I'm curious to hear from other posters what their respective programs' worst losses have been.

OK, we'll take the bait.

As far as we are concerned, the Cardinals 1982 loss in Williamstown was far and away the worst. Not so much because of the score, but how we lost...last play of the game, after we took the lead with about 30 seconds left. Wes losses 27-24. Pretty bad. Definitely the worst we have seen for Wes in our 40+ years of being around the program. Way worse than Tufts this year, btw.

We'd also like to nominate on behalf of our Purple Cow friends, the 2016 tilt v. Wesleyan...Wes 59 Purple Cows 14. We think our Eph friends will have a tough time beating that one.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record since it came up last week - 2016 to Wesleyan was awful but it was really obvious by about September 1st of that year that it was not going to be a fun season in Williamstown. 2017 and 2019, both also to Wesleyan, hurt a little more in some ways. 2017 was the 30-0 drubbing in Maimaron's freshman year that really stung and in 2019 they lost in overtime after outgaining Wes 419-296 but Estevez returned a kick for a touchdown and they couldn't get the stop they needed at the end of regulation before losing in OT.

The 2019 loss wasn't awful in a vacuum but coupled with the Week 1 loss to Middlebury all of a sudden you realized they were just two stops away from going 9-0. I know they went 7-2 but they were the best football team that year. Don't think they got a trophy for that though.

Spring, I think you have things mixed up here.  In 2019 you played Midd on the sixth weekend of the season and lost 45-21. Besides, Midd had the edge in first down 23-16 and total offense 529-350. Wes couldn't have been bettter than Midd that year.

[lumbercat]

That post comes from Middlebury Academia. The poster has apparently taken a professorial stance as a self appointed voice of reason and balance- must be the smartest guy in the room- heck, he's an academic.

As the NESCAC Basketball season heats up you will see the same kind of emotion and passion from Bucket on NESCAC basketball  on the basketball board. To many, NESCAC basketball may seem to be "among the least consequential topics on the planet to get worked up over."

Check the record, he's been "worked up" on NESCAC and Middlebury basketball many times over the years.
Frankly I've always admired and enjoyed the passion in his basketball posts. He's a frequent and knowledgable poster on the BB board who, with his Vermont colleagues, really make a for a great Basketball blog......

Just seems hypocritical to call out others who happen to mirror his passion on a different NESCAC sport.

Yes, I've often been accused of being hypocritical, so point taken. I just see a difference between being passionate and being angry, and accusations of "taking shots" and "taking a swing" just seem a bit out of proportion for what we are talking about. Thus the urge to take a breath.

I appreciate your admiration for my hoops passion; similarly passionate about soccer, too. And certainly am an ardent supporter of the football Panthers, as well. (It's been in honor to occasional occupy what will forever be known as the Russ Reilly PA booth at Alumni Stadium on occasion as a fill-in announcer.)

And while I don't believe it was meant as a compliment, I thank you for the misguided belief that I'm an academic. I'm not; just a storyteller fortunate enough to be employed by a place like Middlebury. I'm not nearly that smart to be included among the gowned class, like our friend Old Guy. My dad was an academic; my mom, too, possesses a PhD. I'm just a regular guy.

Yikes Bucket -NESCAC soccer ?   now that is really a topic the takes the cake as "one of the least consequential topics on the planet".....
Just kidding, I'm sure it's important to you.

Look forward to your insights on Panthers Hoops and the NESCAC in general on the basketball blog. Assume the Pants are loaded again this year.....we are already limping in Lewiston but hope that OG will make his annual journey to Alumni Gym.

[LochNescac]

Is it official that there will be Spring FB in the NESCAC this spring (24)?

Also, is it official that rosters will be limited to 76 players?  If so, is there a pacing plan or anything to get it there or will it be 76 cold turkey in the fall of 24?

Bump...

Sorry for the delay Loch:

1. Spring Practice: For the Spring of 2024, each NESCAC football team gets 10 real, coached practices.
2. Roster Size: No roster limit for the 2024 season. Our understanding is that the proposal for the 2025 season is to go back to the previous roster limit of 76. That has not been finalized yet. The Lord Mammoths and the Ephs are apparently the leading advocates for that change. If we were betting men (which we are), knowing this league like we do, they will compromise on a number in the 80-90 range.

Good info...Thanks!

[RedAndBlack]

Tufts' stunning loss to Hamilton got me thinking about the worst losses for each NESCAC program. For Trinity, the 2021 blowout loss to Williams jumps to mind. It was by no means an upset as the Ephs finished that season 9-0, but the nature of the loss was shocking. At the risk of bringing up bad memories, I'm curious to hear from other posters what their respective programs' worst losses have been.

The biggest Wesleyan drubbing I personally witnessed was the 63-7 loss to Trinity in 2005. Literally looked like teams on entirely different levels (age, skill, etc.). Like a high school team vs. a college team.

The "worst" loss in recent memory was probably the game Wes dropped against Bowdoin last year. A major disappointment given the expectations and talent on paper.

Ghost, the 2005 loss was bad, but not unexpected given how that year went for us. If you recall (and we're very sure you do), we were 0-8 in 2005 and that was when the winds of change started to blow in Middletown. Going winless was totally unacceptable. 2005 and 2008 were the two years that stick out in our mind why significant changes had to be made. Fortunately, the changes were made and the rest is history, as they say.

The 2008 season was a massive disappointment as the 2007 season showed promise and the 2008 team had decent talent to compete with the middle pack of the NESCAC.... it didnt help that we had 8 starters out for the season by the end of week 3. As much as I will agree that Frank's time had run out in Middletown and that the admin was beyond lacking in support, that year was not his fault. 2005 on the other hand.... woof.

[GroundandPound]

NM, does this NCAA website address the turnover margin problem you identified?
https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d3/current/team/29/p2

[GroundandPound]

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d3/current/team/926
https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d3/current/team/27/p3
https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d3/current/team/28

So this is not just a NESCAC statistical failure, it is an NCAA statistical failure.
This failure can be easily corrected with respect to "OFFENSIVE TDs".  All the programmer needs to do
is have the total points of the DEFENSIVE TD stats subtracted from the OFFENSIVE TD stats so that the OFFENSIVE TD stats actually represent offensive TDs.
With respect to having the "SCORING DEFENSE" statistic actually represent the actual scores given up by the defense and not include fumble and/or interception TDs given up by the offense, I do not have a quick solution, but there is probably someone who can fix that statistical flaw.   There should be some motivated defensive coordinators in the NCAA who want that statistic to accurately measure points given up by their defense as opposed to their offense.

[GroundandPound]

NESCAC TURNOVER MARGINS THROUGH THIS PAST WEEKEND
Trinity +1.17
Tufts +.71
Williams +.67
Colby .0
Amherst - .14
Middlebury - .17
Bowdoin -.33
Hamilton - . 71
Bates - 1.17

[GroundandPound]

NESCAC TURNOVER MARGINS THROUGH THIS PAST WEEKEND
Trinity +1.17
Tufts +.71
Williams +.67
Colby .0
Wesleyan .0
Amherst - .14
Middlebury - .17
Bowdoin -.33
Hamilton - . 71
Bates - 1.17

[CC_Camels]

[/quote]

Our guess....the Camels of Conn...
[/quote]

Conn College has never had a single complaints about their locker rooms from visiting football teams...

Now visiting hockey teams at Dayton Arena...back in the day there were a lot of valid complaints from visiting teams

[Nescacman]

NESCAC TURNOVER MARGINS THROUGH THIS PAST WEEKEND
Trinity +1.17
Tufts +.71
Williams +.67
Colby .0
Wesleyan .0
Amherst - .14
Middlebury - .17
Bowdoin -.33
Hamilton - . 71
Bates - 1.17

Thanks G&P...here are the stats in English from the NESCACMAN Sports Information Department (unaudited):

        Total Takeaways   Total Turnovers   +/-
Amwurst     11                       13                  -2
UBates       4                         11                  -7
Bowdoin     9                         11                  -2
Colby         5                          5                    0
Hamilton     7                        12                  -5
Middlebury  15                      16                  -1
Hartford St 15                        8                  7
Tufts         11                         6                  5
Wesleyan   12                       11                  1
Williams    12                         8                  4

As expected, direct correlation between wins/losses and turnover ratio. Outliers are the Ephs and MID. Ephs issue is they have had a really hard time converting on third down and their INTs are down on a macro level due to limited pass attempts and a one-dimensional offense. MID leads the league in sacks and has been really good in the red zone only allowing 12 scores in 21 opposing chances ("bend but don't break"). Maybe this catches up with Middlebury the last 1/3rd of the season.

[SpringSt7]

Tufts' stunning loss to Hamilton got me thinking about the worst losses for each NESCAC program. For Trinity, the 2021 blowout loss to Williams jumps to mind. It was by no means an upset as the Ephs finished that season 9-0, but the nature of the loss was shocking. At the risk of bringing up bad memories, I'm curious to hear from other posters what their respective programs' worst losses have been.

OK, we'll take the bait.

As far as we are concerned, the Cardinals 1982 loss in Williamstown was far and away the worst. Not so much because of the score, but how we lost...last play of the game, after we took the lead with about 30 seconds left. Wes losses 27-24. Pretty bad. Definitely the worst we have seen for Wes in our 40+ years of being around the program. Way worse than Tufts this year, btw.

We'd also like to nominate on behalf of our Purple Cow friends, the 2016 tilt v. Wesleyan...Wes 59 Purple Cows 14. We think our Eph friends will have a tough time beating that one.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record since it came up last week - 2016 to Wesleyan was awful but it was really obvious by about September 1st of that year that it was not going to be a fun season in Williamstown. 2017 and 2019, both also to Wesleyan, hurt a little more in some ways. 2017 was the 30-0 drubbing in Maimaron's freshman year that really stung and in 2019 they lost in overtime after outgaining Wes 419-296 but Estevez returned a kick for a touchdown and they couldn't get the stop they needed at the end of regulation before losing in OT.

The 2019 loss wasn't awful in a vacuum but coupled with the Week 1 loss to Middlebury all of a sudden you realized they were just two stops away from going 9-0. I know they went 7-2 but they were the best football team that year. Don't think they got a trophy for that though.

Spring, I think you have things mixed up here.  In 2019 you played Midd on the sixth weekend of the season and lost 45-21. Besides, Midd had the edge in first down 23-16 and total offense 529-350. Wes couldn't have been bettter than Midd that year.

I am speaking from the Williams perspective, not the Wesleyan perspective.

[Scoops]

If we're talking worst Wesleyan losses, we don't have to look too far back. The Tufts game this year was quite possibly the most one-sided game I've seen in the league since the Ephs/Bantams game in 21. Especially since Tufts and Wesleyan were supposedly "even" on paper. Tufts literally could have scored 100 if OC and former Cardinals HC Hauser didn't take the high road, and call off the dogs in the second half.

The 2008 season was a massive disappointment as the 2007 season showed promise and the 2008 team had decent talent to compete with the middle pack of the NESCAC.... it didnt help that we had 8 starters out for the season by the end of week 3. As much as I will agree that Frank's time had run out in Middletown and that the admin was beyond lacking in support, that year was not his fault. 2005 on the other hand.... woof.