FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[MammothDad]

Good point Bucket

Trinity is a great, dominant team and when they get the lead they'll kill you - but in close games they play a little out of character
but that seldom happens because they are too good to be in close games in this conference.

If you kill everyone on your schedule for years, when you do get into that infrequent close game, like Middlebury this year, it's unfamiliar territory. Kind of like fighting the big kid in the neighborhood, he's bigger and tougher but he's not used to taking that random punch.

it's a different dynamic to play 9 games and dominate 7 or 8 of them, EVERY YEAR......a territory most teams don't know and will never experience.

Sometimes I wonder if there is ever any debate in Hartford that the Bantams have outgrown the NESCAC and should move on to a conference where they can compete for national recognition but actually have a reasonable chance of losing every week.......or maybe it's more fun always being the big kid on the block.

At the end of the day congratulations to the Trinity program for their standard of excellence and another NESCAC title barring something crazy next weekend.

Lumbercat,

I take NOTHING away from the hard work and athleticism of the Trinity FB players.

I noted that they were the ONLY NESCAC school with a material advantage over the other programs, by having a FB dedicated weight room.  Good for them and their boosters.  No issues here.

But my original post NEVER named the school of that student athlete who was critical of his/her school's football player's academic pedigree.

I do want to make sure I remind all of that.  Seems like some defensively jumped the gun and assumed.

Again, the NESCAC FB Programs ALL have facilities that I think most ALL D3 Programs would love to have.  So when I read "commitment to FB", is there anything money can buy more important than lowering the academic standards to get better athletes on the field?

That was my question and I never hinted as to what school that personal anecdote came from.

The ONLY two NESCAC FB Programs I see having "better facilities" than the others was Trinity's dedicated weight room,  Bates' indoor carpet on the ice rink, and the Colby Starship.

But I'm sure most NESCAC FB Programs have everything they need, materially speaking.

[MammothDad]

... The ONLY two ...

Dern lack of an Update button...

Obviously, that meant to be 3.

[BigKat]

Good point Bucket

Trinity is a great, dominant team and when they get the lead they'll kill you - but in close games they play a little out of character
but that seldom happens because they are too good to be in close games in this conference.

If you kill everyone on your schedule for years, when you do get into that infrequent close game, like Middlebury this year, it's unfamiliar territory. Kind of like fighting the big kid in the neighborhood, he's bigger and tougher but he's not used to taking that random punch.

it's a different dynamic to play 9 games and dominate 7 or 8 of them, EVERY YEAR......a territory most teams don't know and will never experience.

Sometimes I wonder if there is ever any debate in Hartford that the Bantams have outgrown the NESCAC and should move on to a conference where they can compete for national recognition but actually have a reasonable chance of losing every week.......or maybe it's more fun always being the big kid on the block.

At the end of the day congratulations to the Trinity program for their standard of excellence and another NESCAC title barring something crazy next weekend.

Lumbercat,

I take NOTHING away from the hard work and athleticism of the Trinity FB players.

I noted that they were the ONLY NESCAC school with a material advantage over the other programs, by having a FB dedicated weight room.  Good for them and their boosters.  No issues here.

But my original post NEVER named the school of that student athlete who was critical of his/her school's football player's academic pedigree.

I do want to make sure I remind all of that.  Seems like some defensively jumped the gun and assumed.

Again, the NESCAC FB Programs ALL have facilities that I think most ALL D3 Programs would love to have.  So when I read "commitment to FB", is there anything money can buy more important than lowering the academic standards to get better athletes on the field?

That was my question and I never hinted as to what school that personal anecdote came from.

The ONLY two NESCAC FB Programs I see having "better facilities" than the others was Trinity's dedicated weight room,  Bates' indoor carpet on the ice rink, and the Colby Starship.

But I'm sure most NESCAC FB Programs have everything they need, materially speaking.

Mammoth, I recommend you take a trip to Midd. Maybe Colby has similar facilities but they are both far superior to Trinity's and most others. Ephs' used to be the worst but tbf haven't seen them in years so perhaps they've improved?

[Trin9-0]

Good point Bucket

Trinity is a great, dominant team and when they get the lead they'll kill you - but in close games they play a little out of character but that seldom happens because they are too good to be in close games in this conference.

If you kill everyone on your schedule for years, when you do get into that infrequent close game, like Middlebury this year, it's unfamiliar territory. Kind of like fighting the big kid in the neighborhood, he's bigger and tougher but he's not used to taking that random punch.

it's a different dynamic to play 9 games and dominate 7 or 8 of them, EVERY YEAR......a territory most teams don't know and will never experience.

Sometimes I wonder if there is ever any debate in Hartford that the Bantams have outgrown the NESCAC and should move on to a conference where they can compete for national recognition but actually have a reasonable chance of losing every week.......or maybe it's more fun always being the big kid on the block.

At the end of the day congratulations to the Trinity program for their standard of excellence and another NESCAC title barring something crazy next weekend.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good story, eh Lumber? Trinity is 33-16 in games decided by one score since 2000. More recently they are 6-2 in such games over the past four seasons (FYI, Bates is 5-6 in one score games over that same span). The Bants can take a punch just fine, thanks.

Also, give me a break with Trinity having "outgrown the NESCAC". Sure, it has consistently been the best program in the league, but it's not some unfathomable juggernaut that other schools can't compete with. Trin most likely will have to share the league title THIS YEAR, and it was only three seasons ago they finished 5-4, so you don't have to concern yourself with the Bantams' winning becoming so boring that they spurn 100+ years of traditional rivalries so they can play against Springfield and Western Connecticut in search of "national recognition".


Some NESCAC adjacent news; it sounds like Chuck Priore is out at Stony Brook after 17 years.

[MammothDad]

Mammoth, I recommend you take a trip to Midd. Maybe Colby has similar facilities but they are both far superior to Trinity's and most others. Ephs' used to be the worst but tbf haven't seen them in years so perhaps they've improved?

Yes, I have never seen Middlebury's and Hamilton's facilities.  (Nor Conn College but no FB)

Again, the whole point to my post is what is meant by a "commitment to FB".

Coaching Staff payroll is a place I could see money spent to have a direct impact on the quality of the FB Team on the field.


But what tiff'ed some was my assertion that lowered academic standards to get a wider pool of candidates is what one could fairly conclude from that as well, in addition to money budgeted to FB operations.

NO ONE IN AN OFFICIAL CAPACITY HAS EVER SAID THIS BUT ...

... the scuttlebutt was that Amherst Admissions go so crazy during their last President's reign of terror that the Admissions Department was forwarding names to the Coaches of kids who applied and listed FB in their application?!?

I know first hand, that ALL of the NESCAC Programs would not talk to my son about roster slots until his packet was reviewed.  All the coaches reiterated they were "hands off" until the Admissions reviewed the packet.

So I know the NESCAC is more serious than the Ivy, in terms of Admissions having that first step.  My son's high school had plenty of kids who went on to play at multiple Ivies and the Coaches were very confident in talking about them "getting in" and never seemed to have to defer to Admissions with their "offers".

So back to the NESCAC, would the average NESCAC Coach want which of the following if granted one wish:

A.  A dedicated weight room all to their own, equal to Trinity's
B.  A Colby Starship
C.  Astroturf for their hockey rink
D. Whatever Middlebury has, as mentioned above
E.  Admissions standards equal to the lowest school's standards.  As for the lowest school, a 100 reduction on the SAT and .3 on the GPA

Something tells me that most coaches are bubbling E

[GroundandPound]

NESCAC TURNOVER MARGIN  https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d3/current/team/29

Trinity: + 2 per game (No. 2 in D3)
Tufts: + .67 per game
Amherst: + .33 per game
Williams: + .25 per game
Middlebury: + .12 per game
Colby/Bowdoin: - .38 per game
Hamilton: -.56 per game
Wesleyan: - .78 per game
Bates: -1.25 per game

[GroundandPound]

NESCAC TURNOVER MARGIN  https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d3/current/team/29

Trinity: + 2 per game (No. 2 in D3)
Tufts: + .67 per game
Amherst: + .33 per game
Williams: + .25 per game
Middlebury: + .12 per game
Colby/Bowdoin: - .38 per game
Hamilton: -.56 per game
Wesleyan: - .78 per game
Bates: -1.25 per game

[Hawk196]

I'll leave a school name out of this but I did meet an athlete who "front doored" a school in the NESCAC who has a great football  program and he/she said ALL of the athletes at the school look down on the FB players for not being close to the academic standards of the rest of the student body.

I would agree with statement of "looking down" (aka jealous), but that would be mostly non-student athletes. I also had a son play in the Ivy league and it was the same way. Wearing anything with "Football" was frowned upon, hell I could barely find a t-shirt or hat with "football" on it(mostly NESCAC items). Most of their friends were "student athletes", so with the football team and other sports, that left them with hundreds of friends/acquaintances, so the jealous students can go scratch.

I think it's great that schools require more than just "good grades". Playing a sport or any other extra curricular activity definitely adds to the overall "student", whether time management, interacting/collaborating with other students/teammates, etc....I've seen it with my boys. For example up at the field at 5am, then work out in the weight room and breakfast with the teammates all before 9 am.

Any intelligent person can study every waking hour and get A's/4.0s, but is that person a "complete student" at graduation?

Here is something I find funny, my "big, bad football playing" son is the "green dot rep" (or something like that). What that means if there is a party for example and a female doesn't feel comfortable or is being harassed, my son is the go to person. Why is that? Is it because he's the "Big bad football playing" student? He was brought up to be that person.....but the hypocrisy is ridiculous.

With all that said, congrats to all the parents who had a senior or 5th year son "graduate" from football this season. This has been going on for us since 6 years old......I don't know what my wife and I are going to do next Fall.....it's been quite a ride!

[SpringSt7]

Mammoth, I recommend you take a trip to Midd. Maybe Colby has similar facilities but they are both far superior to Trinity's and most others. Ephs' used to be the worst but tbf haven't seen them in years so perhaps they've improved?

They have not.

[GroundandPound]

Unfortunately, academic standards do not explain Trinity's outstanding football program. 
If it were as simple as academic standards, then Columbia and Brown would be winning Ivy Football championships as frequently as Trinity
earns NESCAC championships.  Columbia and Brown have the lowest Academic Index in the Ivy League but only have about 5 Ivy Football Titles in the last 50 years. 
In my opinion, great coaching, great recruiting, great player development, and a great football tradition play a much more substantial and significant role in Trinity's consistent success.
It also appears from their website that they have a terrific alumni network for their players, which clearly helps with recruiting. 
Lastly:
https://athletics.wesleyan.edu/sports/football
Take a look at No. 44 and 97 for Trinity.  Two LB's.  Their commitment to hard work in the weight room sort of jumps out at you when you look at this photo, as does the rest of the team's when observed in person.

[GroundandPound]

To clarify, in the last 67 years Brown AND Columbia have combined for a total of 5 Ivy Championships compared with,
per Trinity 9-0's posts, 18 Titles in the last 50 years for Trinity.

[GroundandPound]

To clarify, in the last 67 years Brown AND Columbia have combined for a total of 5 Ivy Championships compared with,
per Trinity 9-0's posts, 18 Titles in the last 50 years for Trinity.

[Charlie]

I know Trinity is the ONLY school with a dedicated FB weight room but is there anything material, in the form of "commitment" as important as lowering academic standards to get better talent on the field?

I'm sure there are many other D3 Programs that would love to swap locker rooms, weight rooms, equipment etc. with ANY of the NESCAC schools.  So when we really measure "commitment", isn't making deviations from the student norm the most important thing?

I'll leave a school name out of this but I did meet an athlete who "front doored" a school in the NESCAC who has a great football  program and he/she said ALL of the athletes at the school look down on the FB players for not being close to the academic standards of the rest of the student body.

Could this variety of grape being any more sour?

Bucket ...

... advoidance is admission to many.  Who are you a fan of?

You are wrong in your assertions. Trinity does not have a FB weight room that is shared by all the Varsity teams. In fact did not Colby just build a modern training center for its athletes. In accordance to facilities Middlebury and Colby weight room is far better than Trinity. I will admit Trinity building a new athletic complex but that is really a reflection of the squash program than anything else.

In terms of admissions. I hear the same banter on the message boards if a school wants to be competitive they will do so in admissions. I know many NESCAC schools that have players on their teams that were C-bands at some schools and a or B bands at others. If you are implying that Trinity lets everyone in you are mistaken. Perhaps they are better at recruiting than the other NESCAC schools , perhaps it is their location. I do know that there are some who were offered to play at various other NESCAC schools and Trinity did not offer them. I understand that the acceptance rate is higher at Trinity than some NESCAC schools but we hear the same banter year after year. The student populations except from Wesleyan and Tufts are all around the same. Have you ever considered that good athletes want to come and play at Trinity and win versus go to some of these other schools and play on loosing teams.

[lumbercat]

Unfortunately, academic standards do not explain Trinity's outstanding football program. 
If it were as simple as academic standards, then Columbia and Brown would be winning Ivy Football championships as frequently as Trinity
earns NESCAC championships.  Columbia and Brown have the lowest Academic Index in the Ivy League but only have about 5 Ivy Football Titles in the last 50 years. 
In my opinion, great coaching, great recruiting, great player development, and a great football tradition play a much more substantial and significant role in Trinity's consistent success.
It also appears from their website that they have a terrific alumni network for their players, which clearly helps with recruiting. 
Lastly:
https://athletics.wesleyan.edu/sports/football
Take a look at No. 44 and 97 for Trinity.  Two LB's.  Their commitment to hard work in the weight room sort of jumps out at you when you look at this photo, as does the rest of the team's when observed in person.

Much more variation in terms of Athletic admission standards and guidelines in the NESCAC when compared to the Ivies. Less variation in admission procedure and protocol in the Ivies.

Essentially, in the NESCAC, schools can modify standards as they so choose. There is more consistency from school to school in the Ivies where standards and procedures make it much more difficult for an individual school to deviate from conference guidelines.

[JEFFFAN]

Lumbercat - re your comment that " ... the NESCAC, schools can modify standards as they so choose ..." - I don't believe that is accurate.   That would allow the schools to change in ways that would significantly enhance their chances of winning at any sport.  I am fairly certain that the NESCAC guidelines as described in that excellent Bowdoin Orient series many years ago still apply.