FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Charlie]

Coaching & Recruiting

One thing we over look is how good a Coaching staff Trinity has and there sucessful recruiting. First they put the players in positions to win. On an off the field by governing them and making them accountable for there actions in the classroom and out. I have heard of many instances of kids at higher academic schools twisting in the wind as they were not prepared for the academic onslaught that is the NESCAC academics. A key ingrediant since many freshman do not play and do not get the year as a red shirt at this level. So basically unless you are a tremndous athlete your first year is learning and and being on some type of scout team. However Trinity tries to integrate the player academically and football wise. I am not saying the other NESCAC schools do not do this but they appear to go the extra step for the students. Checking there attendance in classes , weekly meetings to go over asignments , tutors , study halls etc..

I am not sure the other NESCAC schools perform or go this extra mile for the players. However i do know if the school cares about is students , players then the student will go above and beyond to perform and play well. I beleive it is this dedication to make sure the player is a student first then football that propels Trinity year after year in football.

Trinity also does an exceptional job at recruiting. They do not waste 7 to 8 recruiting spots trying to find the QB of the future. I am sure they have some misses don't get me wrong but they have a knack for finding the player best suited to their system. In addition this year in particular knowing they have a great of seniors leaving they managed to get many Freshman and Sophomores valuable playing time and experience. This will only make the program better. I also think with the advent of spring ball if they manage to find there QB going forward with the outstanding recruiting classes they have had last two years no reason Trinity will not be in top 2 discussion next year. However Fetters shoes will be tough to fill.

[Jonny Utah]

Coaching & Recruiting

One thing we over look is how good a Coaching staff Trinity has and there sucessful recruiting. First they put the players in positions to win. On an off the field by governing them and making them accountable for there actions in the classroom and out. I have heard of many instances of kids at higher academic schools twisting in the wind as they were not prepared for the academic onslaught that is the NESCAC academics. A key ingrediant since many freshman do not play and do not get the year as a red shirt at this level. So basically unless you are a tremndous athlete your first year is learning and and being on some type of scout team. However Trinity tries to integrate the player academically and football wise. I am not saying the other NESCAC schools do not do this but they appear to go the extra step for the students. Checking there attendance in classes , weekly meetings to go over asignments , tutors , study halls etc..

I am not sure the other NESCAC schools perform or go this extra mile for the players. However i do know if the school cares about is students , players then the student will go above and beyond to perform and play well. I beleive it is this dedication to make sure the player is a student first then football that propels Trinity year after year in football.

Trinity also does an exceptional job at recruiting. They do not waste 7 to 8 recruiting spots trying to find the QB of the future. I am sure they have some misses don't get me wrong but they have a knack for finding the player best suited to their system. In addition this year in particular knowing they have a great of seniors leaving they managed to get many Freshman and Sophomores valuable playing time and experience. This will only make the program better. I also think with the advent of spring ball if they manage to find there QB going forward with the outstanding recruiting classes they have had last two years no reason Trinity will not be in top 2 discussion next year. However Fetters shoes will be tough to fill.

It does make me wonder if Nescac schools could look at what MIT does.  Granted MIT is a more "national" school, despite what the US News rankings tells you about where they put the Nescac schools ("National" liberal arts colleges).  But over the past 10 years my eyeball observations tells me MIT would have been the top 1-2 team in the Nescac 2-3 of those years. 

On the top of my head I've coached over 30 kids who have gone onto play at Nescac schools (7 Bates, 5 Bowdoin, 3 Trinity, 1 Hamilton, 3 Middlebury, 2 Williams, 3 Wesleyan, 10+ at Tufts, 0 Amherst, 1 Colby) As an unbiased observer of the Nescac (with minor ties with friends on several staffs at Tufts and Williams) I can tell you I know first hand kids who could have gone to Williams or Amherst but chose Trinity because they just liked the school better.  I've seen other kids not like Wesleyan because they associated the school as more "weird" than Trinity (in a Cal Berkley sense). 

I think we place too much emphasis on admissions rates here.  I have never heard of someone who's "dream school" was Amherst or Williams and they had to settle for a place like Trinity because they couldn't get into Williams and wanted to play football there.  Kids like schools because of what they saw on the visit most of the time.  I don't think kids think Trinity is below Bowdoin because the admissions rate is different.   (I do have one story about a Williams coach telling a kid who was already going to Bowdoin that he needed to take the SAT again if he wanted to get into Williams and the kid was already in Bowdoin.  When the kid said he didn't want to take the SAT again the coach called him 2 days later and said never mind, just apply and your into Williams.  I'm guessing this was an early admit 1 and 2 situation or just a coach trying to manage his tips).

[GroundandPound]

My opinion:
"I suspect that, generally speaking, most Trinity players simply out work most players on most other teams in the off-season ... in the weight room, in the dining hall, and in speed and mobility training."

Midd9-0 thinks this opinion is "incredible" which is defined as  "impossible to believe" that Trinity wins as much as they do because they outwork other teams in the off-season.  Well, to start with, do all individual players have the same off season work ethic? Of course not.  Some players on each team put more time and effort into off-season training than other players on a team.  Do all teams put in identical amounts of time in the off-season as other teams (I am talking about non-coach organized activities).  Of course not.  Some teams have a higher percentage of players putting in more significant time and effort into off-season training (lifting, diet, mobility work, stretching, throwing, catching, running etc.) than other teams. 

Midd9-0 suggests I am "Insult[ing] the work ethic of other programs" by suggesting that I believe Trinity has more players putting more time into off-season training than most of the players on most of the other teams in the league.  If any player and team want to increase their chances of beating Trinity, they absolutely should strive to outwork Trinity players in the off-season.  "If you have better players at your school... they will probably still be better players if they put the same amount of work in." I find this attitude, or excuse, that Trinity wins because they have better players and, well, that's just the way it is to be defeatist and likely to perpetuate Trinity's dominance.  What about the player who is not a "better player," can that player develop into the "better player" by outworking that person?  I believe so.

I do agree with your comment that it is "a league based on effort" and to that end, the more time and effort players put into off season training and the more players who increase their time and effort spent on off season training the better their team's chances are of beating Trinity next year.  If anyone is "devaluing" the work of 9 other teams, it is the one suggesting that working harder than Trinity players in the off season does not matter because Trinity just gets "better players." 

Trin9-0:  "I do want to strongly disagree with G&P's claim that Trinity wins because they 'work harder.'" JEFFAN:"t is pretty offensive to suggest that Trinity – or any school – wins more because they work harder than other schools."  I find it almost comical for one to suggest that because Trinity just gets better players we should not try and outwork them in the off-seasons.  I also chuckle at comments suggesting that hard work in the off-season has nothing to do with a team's final record.  Really?  The more players on a team who work harder at off-season training than players on other teams do in off-season training does not improve their chances of winning during the season?  Which coaches subscribe to that theory? None. I can assure you. 

By the way, I never made any comments about "dedicated weight rooms" or on whether I believe an exclusive weight room for football makes any difference.  Since a couple people, without any basis, attributed an opinion to me on this topic, I will give you my opinion: I do not think a dedicated weight room for football makes any difference.   

And, just to be absolutely clear, I believe if any team wants to increase their chances of beating Trinity next year, they should strive to outwork them in off-season training.   To quote one of the best, if not the best football coach in the northeast (in my opinion): "Effort = Results" L.J. Spinnato
 

[GroundandPound]

My opinion:
"I suspect that, generally speaking, most Trinity players simply out work most players on most other teams in the off-season ... in the weight room, in the dining hall, and in speed and mobility training."

Midd9-0 thinks this opinion is "incredible" which is defined as  "impossible to believe" that Trinity wins as much as they do because they outwork other teams in the off-season.  Well, to start with, do all individual players have the same off season work ethic? Of course not.  Some players on each team put more time and effort into off-season training than other players on a team.  Do all teams put in identical amounts of time in the off-season as other teams (I am talking about non-coach organized activities).  Of course not.  Some teams have a higher percentage of players putting in more significant time and effort into off-season training (lifting, diet, mobility work, stretching, throwing, catching, running etc.) than other teams. 

Midd9-0 suggests I am "Insult[ing] the work ethic of other programs" by suggesting that I believe Trinity has more players putting more time into off-season training than most of the players on most of the other teams in the league.  If any player and team want to increase their chances of beating Trinity, they absolutely should strive to outwork Trinity players in the off-season.  "If you have better players at your school... they will probably still be better players if they put the same amount of work in." I find this attitude, or excuse, that Trinity wins because they have better players and, well, that's just the way it is to be defeatist and likely to perpetuate Trinity's dominance.  What about the player who is not a "better player," can that player develop into the "better player" by outworking that person?  I believe so.

I do agree with your comment that it is "a league based on effort" and to that end, the more time and effort players put into off season training and the more players who increase their time and effort spent on off season training the better their team's chances are of beating Trinity next year.  If anyone is "devaluing" the work of 9 other teams, it is the one suggesting that working harder than Trinity players in the off season does not matter because Trinity just gets "better players." 

Trin9-0:  "I do want to strongly disagree with G&P's claim that Trinity wins because they 'work harder.'" JEFFAN:"t is pretty offensive to suggest that Trinity – or any school – wins more because they work harder than other schools."  I find it almost comical for one to suggest that because Trinity just gets better players we should not try and outwork them in the off-seasons.  I also chuckle at comments suggesting that hard work in the off-season has nothing to do with a team's final record.  Really?  The more players on a team who work harder at off-season training than players on other teams do in off-season training does not improve their chances of winning during the season?  Which coaches subscribe to that theory? None. I can assure you. 

By the way, I never made any comments about "dedicated weight rooms" or on whether I believe an exclusive weight room for football makes any difference.  Since a couple people, without any basis, attributed an opinion to me on this topic, I will give you my opinion: I do not think a dedicated weight room for football makes any difference.   

And, just to be absolutely clear, I believe if any team wants to increase their chances of beating Trinity next year, they should strive to outwork them in off-season training.   To quote one of the best, if not the best football coach in the northeast (in my opinion): "Effort = Results" L.J. Spinnato
 

[Charlie]

Recruiting

There is also a huge advantage other schools have over Trinity football in recruiting. If you use an example say WR and you have two kids that are equally talented. They may not want to wait a season or two behind upperclassman to get on the field. The NESCAC since there is no playoffs you only have 36 games in a career. Do players want to give up 18 games when they can go to another NESCAC school and start right away. This is a big advantage that other NESCAC schools have. On the flip side you would be going to a school that perhaps you won't win any games like a Bates or win a couple like Hamilton. So for Trinity to get top caliber athletes knowing they will be waiting for their time to play first is incredible but it does open the door for other NESCAC schools.

This most certainly does have an impact on recruiting. If you talk to any Trinity player past and present I believe you will find they like the culture , winning attitude and want to be part of a winning program even if they only see the field for two out of there four years. This is incredible since the 36 games will be the last for most players attending NESCAC schools.

[MammothDad]

Recruiting

There is also a huge advantage other schools have over Trinity football in recruiting. If you use an example say WR and you have two kids that are equally talented. They may not want to wait a season or two behind upperclassman to get on the field. The NESCAC since there is no playoffs you only have 36 games in a career. Do players want to give up 18 games when they can go to another NESCAC school and start right away. This is a big advantage that other NESCAC schools have. On the flip side you would be going to a school that perhaps you won't win any games like a Bates or win a couple like Hamilton. So for Trinity to get top caliber athletes knowing they will be waiting for their time to play first is incredible but it does open the door for other NESCAC schools.

This most certainly does have an impact on recruiting. If you talk to any Trinity player past and present I believe you will find they like the culture , winning attitude and want to be part of a winning program even if they only see the field for two out of there four years. This is incredible since the 36 games will be the last for most players attending NESCAC schools.

I can't believe any kid smart enough for a NESCAC College is making a school choice decision based on play time over where his college selection will help him most down the road.

One of the most reassuring things I heard after my kid chose Amherst was overhearing a group call with him and some other Freshmen FB players, before school started.  NONE of them were talking about FB post college.  They were discussing majors, internships and future career goals.

But if a kid is eligible for NESCAC with a lower # on US News but chooses a higher # based on FB ...

... to each their own.  Glad my kid is better focused on post college than anyone dreaming of Arena Ball or Canada, post D3.

[Charlie]

Recruiting

There is also a huge advantage other schools have over Trinity football in recruiting. If you use an example say WR and you have two kids that are equally talented. They may not want to wait a season or two behind upperclassman to get on the field. The NESCAC since there is no playoffs you only have 36 games in a career. Do players want to give up 18 games when they can go to another NESCAC school and start right away. This is a big advantage that other NESCAC schools have. On the flip side you would be going to a school that perhaps you won't win any games like a Bates or win a couple like Hamilton. So for Trinity to get top caliber athletes knowing they will be waiting for their time to play first is incredible but it does open the door for other NESCAC schools.

This most certainly does have an impact on recruiting. If you talk to any Trinity player past and present I believe you will find they like the culture , winning attitude and want to be part of a winning program even if they only see the field for two out of there four years. This is incredible since the 36 games will be the last for most players attending NESCAC schools.

I can't believe any kid smart enough for a NESCAC College is making a school choice decision based on play time over where his college selection will help him most down the road.

One of the most reassuring things I heard after my kid chose Amherst was overhearing a group call with him and some other Freshmen FB players, before school started.  NONE of them were talking about FB post college.  They were discussing majors, internships and future career goals.

But if a kid is eligible for NESCAC with a lower # on US News but chooses a higher # based on FB ...

... to each their own.  Glad my kid is better focused on post college than anyone dreaming of Arena Ball or Canada, post D3.

You missed the point I beleive all the NESCAC schools are a tremndous educations. Ieach has there own pros and cons. If a student gets into Colby , Amherst or Trinity all are fabulous schools. However all being equal playing time would most certainly enter into his decision making process on which schhol to matriculate at.

[Nescacman]

You can watch a few clips from the Trinity-Wesleyan game here, but what really caught my attention were the postgame quotes by Nescacman's all-time favorite Bantam, who also happens to be Trinity's all-time leader in:

Touchdowns
Yards
Completions
Completion %
Total offense

Despite the frequent criticism, Fetter currently leads the league in all but one of those categories as well. I tend to agree with SpringSt's notion that he has been underappreciated. Most of those Trinity passing records were held by Joe Shield '85 (who was drafted by the Packers and spent 2 seasons in the NFL)... his last season was 39 years ago! Fetter is far from the only Trinity QB to play with a talented roster, but his numbers stack up with the best NESCAC QBs ever.

Middlebury's Donald McKillop, the league's all-time leader in passing yards, averaged 291 yards and 2.06 TDs per game, He also threw 44 interceptions. The Panthers record in the seasons he played was 21-11.
Fetter, with one game left, has averaged just 18 fewer yards per game (273) but nearly a full TD more per game (2.81) while throwing just 14 picks. His career record as a starter is 24-2.

You don't have to like Fetter, and I'm guessing his latest comments won't endear him to any of our Wesleyan faithful, but his play has more than earned some respect.


I honestly don't have the energy for another admissions debate. However, I do want to add that I too strongly disagree with G&P's claim that Trinity wins because they "work harder". If only he had stopped at this conclusion which I feel is much closer to the truth of the matter:

In my opinion, great coaching, great recruiting, great player development, and a great football tradition play a much more substantial and significant role in Trinity's consistent success.

First time ever we will agree with HS9-o twice in one email. Let's get off the admissions thing (again)...frankly, it's nauseating and pretty boring. We will have some suggestions for Mr. NESCAC on how to address some long-term issues with the league that we think need to be fixed after the regular season.

As far as Joe Shield is concerned, he was the best player we ever played against. Really good D3 QB and he set all those records during a time when most teams were still running the wing-t, the power I, and the triple option. In other words, not much shot-gun, no-huddle, 4 receiver sets in the early to mid 80's. Way better (and tougher) than Fetter, IOO. Question for HS9-o, wasn't Shield's time in the NFL as a "scab" having crossed the picket-line during the NFL strike? 

[lumbercat]

In my memory Shield was a legit rostered QB with the Packers during a non strike season. Watched him get some playing time in a game on Monday night football.

[quicksilver]

The Amherst faculty obtained access to race-based data about Amherst's recruited athletes at a faculty meeting in late October. The data was made available to the faculty in response to a formal request by the faculty but was not provided to the larger college community and is being closely guarded. The data presented to the faculty updated a 2018 report that showed some 75% of recruited athletes at Amherst were white and apparently showed that some movement had been made to reduce the gap in the percentage of recruited athletes who are white versus the percentage of the overall student body that is white.

The newish Amherst president, Michael Elliott, stepped into the debate and stated that changes in recruiting practices would likely only be made in concert with other NESCAC schools and after more was known about the impact of the Supreme Court's ruling this past summer that effectively prohibited affirmative action by colleges and universities in admissions practices. The Amherst president noted that the NESCAC presidents were in the process of reviewing recruiting practices, stating "The NESCAC presidents are actively considering how to reform the recruiting system ... so that it better serves our institutions in light of the Supreme Court [affirmative action] decision." This was new information to me and something to keep an eye on.

It is in the nature of certain NESCAC sports to trend white based on the demograpic make-up of the developmental leagues from which NESCAC players are drawn (like hockey and lacrosse players tend to be drawn from leagues that trend white for various reasons). That would seem hard to fix through changes in recruitment practices . .  or it could mean that sports like football are expected to pull a larger share of the load in ensuring equivalence in the racial make-up of athletes versus the overall student body although such an approach would smack of affirmative action too . .

[Trin9-0]

Question for HS9-o, wasn't Shield's time in the NFL as a "scab" having crossed the picket-line during the NFL strike?

No, Shield did not play during either the 1982 or 1987 NFL strike years. He was drafted by Green Bay in the 11th round of the 1985 NFL draft and was on the Packers' roster that season and in 1986.

He's a big supporter of Trinity and the Bantam football program; frequently attends games and College events. Shield was also a member of the inaugural class of the Trinity Athletics Hall of Fame and widely considered one of the best athletes to ever come out of the state of Vermont.

[GroundandPound]

I think OPOTY comes down to Fetter or Berluti.
25 TDs 3 int and 167 efficiency is one hell of a season, so far for Fetter.
281 yards per game for Berluti v. 272 per Fetter, so far.
516 rushing yards for Berluti - very impressive...and total yards 2536 for Berluti and 2182 for Fetter so far.
But, correct me if I am wrong, many 4th periods or substantial portions of 4th periods Fetter out of game because Trinity was well ahead in most games.
And if that is not true, I suspect Trinity ran a lot more up the middle in the 4th period of most games because they were well ahead in most games.
I am not a Trinity or Tufts fan, but I think Fetter earned the award this year.  Am I missing anything?

[Nescacman]

Question for HS9-o, wasn't Shield's time in the NFL as a "scab" having crossed the picket-line during the NFL strike?

No, Shield did not play during either the 1982 or 1987 NFL strike years. He was drafted by Green Bay in the 11th round of the 1985 NFL draft and was on the Packers' roster that season and in 1986.

He's a big supporter of Trinity and the Bantam football program; frequently attends games and College events. Shield was also a member of the inaugural class of the Trinity Athletics Hall of Fame and widely considered one of the best athletes to ever come out of the state of Vermont.

Appreciate the clarification...and for the record, was not a snarky comment but a legit question. He's the best we've ever seen at the position in the NESCAC, once again, our opinion.

[Nescacman]

2023 NESCACMAN Week 9 Power Rankings

We head to the final week of the extended 2023 football season. In last week's action Amwurst beat Williams for second place in the Little 3, Hamilton denied UBates their first win, Hartford State beat Wesleyan, Middlebury defeats Tufts, and Bowdoin beat Colby to win the C-B-B crown.

Here are our NESCAC rankings for Week 9 based on our poll of league wide correspondents:

1). Middlebury Panthers (10 first place votes)(7-1; Last Week Rank: 1): Despite being outgained, MID wins again by keeping the Jumbo's to 2 of 5 in the red zone...pick 6 with less than 2 mins left seals the win for the Pants...Middlebury beats Colby this week and they clinch at least a tie for the league title in HCOF Mandigo's first year.

2). Hartford State Roosters (7-1; Last Week Rank: 2): The Roosters capitalize on Wes' mistakes and come away with a resounding win in Middletown...win this Saturday and they clinch a tie for the NESCAC title.

3). Tufts Jumbo's (6-3; Last Week Rank: 3-tie):  Disappointing loss to MID...had their chances...Not often you call 6-3 a disappointing season but we think Tufts is probably not satisfied with how their season ended.

4). Wesleyan Cardinals (6-3; Last week Rank: 3-tie): Rare loss for the Cards on Andrus...tough to make up for 6 turnovers on the day...bright spots for the Cards included Wes outgaining the Roosters on the ground and the punting of FY Gage Hammond.

5). Amwurst Lord Mammoths (4-5; Last Week Rank: 5):  Lord Mammoths beat the Ephs for second place in the Little 3...LMs were outgained, had fewer first downs, and had less time of possession vs. the Ephs yet came away with the win in this defensive battle...turnovers were the difference in this one....Amwurst completes the season with two straight wins and gains a measure of respectability.

6). Bowdoin Polar Bears (4-4; Last Week Rank: 7): Congratulations to the Polars on winning the C-B-B, their first since 2010 with the win against Colby...Polars get back to .500 this week but face a tough road to finish with a winning season as they face Hartford State this week to finish the season...QB Robbie Long had a solid game subbing for injured starter Andrew Boel and WR Colton Fahey was OPOTW for his efforts against the Mules.

7). Williams Purple Cows (2-6; Last Week Rank: 8): Ephs lose their 3rd game in a row to the Lord Mammoths...ran the ball well (227 yards on 56 carries) but passing game was once again non-existent (70 yards and 2 interceptions)...Holden Gering was the Ephs leading receiver and had their lone interception...the Ephs will try to get their third win of the year and finish the season on a high note as they travel to Lewiston to face UBates.

8). Colby Mules (3-5; Last Week Rank: 5):  Colby loses their 3rd game in a row which guarantees another losing season in Waterville...Another lackluster day on offense for the Mules only generating 46 yards on the ground (on 37 carries) and 158 total yards...they will try to right the ship this week as they host Middlebury and try for the improbable upset.

9). Hamilton Alexander Hamilton's (3-6; Last Week Rank: 9): Alexander Hamilton's finish the season on a high note with a win in Lewiston against the Kitties....held UBates to 30 yards rushing and had 6 sacks.

10). University of Bates Bobcats (Lewiston Campus)(0-8; Last Week Rank: 10): UBates looks for their first win of the year this week as they host the Ephs in their final game.

[SpringSt7]

I think OPOTY comes down to Fetter or Berluti.
25 TDs 3 int and 167 efficiency is one hell of a season, so far for Fetter.
281 yards per game for Berluti v. 272 per Fetter, so far.
516 rushing yards for Berluti - very impressive...and total yards 2536 for Berluti and 2182 for Fetter so far.
But, correct me if I am wrong, many 4th periods or substantial portions of 4th periods Fetter out of game because Trinity was well ahead in most games.
And if that is not true, I suspect Trinity ran a lot more up the middle in the 4th period of most games because they were well ahead in most games.
I am not a Trinity or Tufts fan, but I think Fetter earned the award this year.  Am I missing anything?

For me it's Fetter as a lifetime achievement award, which I usually hate doing, but can't think of a better reason. Maimaron's senior year in 2021 was not his best season or was he the best statistical QB but he was the senior of the league championship team and had a heck of a career. Regardless of how you feel about Fetter they are a week away from being 25-2 during his career as a starter and he has the numbers to back it up. It would just look kind of silly if he didn't win one.