FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[GroundandPound]

Since it is supposed to be just for 2023, the proof is straight forward...
a.)   Lead his team to a NESCAC championship in 2023
b.)   27-30 TDs, 3 int and over 167 efficiency
c.)   About 2,450 total offensive yards v. 2,536 and about 272 yards per game v. 281 (BUT he did not play very much in most fourth periods and, if in, team mostly running the ball due to large leads).  Thus, this small difference would have easily been overcome if Trinity did not put the brakes on in the 4th quarters of most games. Any coach who argues otherwise sends a message that teams should not take the pedal off the gas in the fourth quarter.   Tufts may have taken the pedal off the gas in the fourth quarter in Bates, Wesleyan and Colby, but Trinity probably took the pedal off the gas in Tufts, Colby, Amherst, Williams, Bates, and Wesleyan. 

[GroundandPound]

taken their foot off the gas pedal :-) not pedal off the gas

[MammothDad]

... not to say they're bringing in Beavis and Butthead in terms of students. Our sources told us that 80% of the Trinity roster had above a 3.0 GPA and around half had above a 3.5, which shows that the Student-Athletes are putting in the work to be successful here. Finally, have to say I'm shocked Sean Clapp did not receive OPOTW. His stats were quite absurd. Looking forward to seeing the Bants clinch a share of the Championship this Saturday in Brunswick.

Again, ALL the the talk of admission standards of late started from my post.

I NEVER said the name of the school of the student who said that all of the other athletes and students at the school looked down on the academics of the FB Players.

With that clarification, 3.0?  3.5?

If weighted, you are aware that is low.  Right?

<break>

As to why the NESCAC does not use Head to Head as a tie breaker, that's embarrassing.  If Middlebury wins on Saturday, Trinity should have some self respect and never acknowledge "Co-Champions".

The NESCAC needs to get that flaw corrected, if it is not a tie break.

[MammothDad]

You missed the point I beleive all the NESCAC schools are a tremndous educations. Ieach has there own pros and cons. If a student gets into Colby , Amherst or Trinity all are fabulous schools. However all being equal playing time would most certainly enter into his decision making process on which schhol to matriculate at.

Charlie,

Trinity and Colby are phenomenal schools.  Better than the directional state school I attended.

But rankings and perceptions do matter.  Williams and Amherst are consistently ranked and perceived far ahead of Trinity and Colby.

Now, if there is a track at either that leads to greater success than Williams and Amherst, please let me know.  I'm sure that may be possible.  However, I would not think the Liberal Arts design allows too many "tracks", so to speak.  Tufts is the only non-LA school, right?

I know Wesleyan has University in its title but it is a LA model, right?

[Charlie]

2024 NESCAC

I really think next year going to be wide open in the NESCAC. 

Middlebury graduating there starting QB. However always seem to have good recruiting and play hard.  They have shown that they can win tough games although should have lost against Trinity & Tufts team finds ways to win.

Trinity loosing 30 seniors and the best QB in many years to play in the NESCAC. While Trinity always has replacements at various positions and an outstanding Coaching and Recruitment remains to be seen who leads the offense at Trinity. Heard speculation that they have excellent replacement at QB from transfer portal. Trinity still loaded at all positions.

Wesleyan returns QB but after the horrendous performance against Trinity and his inconsistent play all year not only by him but by the entire team hard to make them favorites. Seems to be a talent drop off in the program.

Williams has a promising QB coming up the ranks but lack of depth and talent at almost every position recruiting and poor Coaching leaves serious questions in their program.

Tufts has the best QB in NESCAC next year but between inconsistent performances talent deficiencies and loosing one of best WR in league again makes this team a big question mark. The coaching blunders continue to mount at Tufts and their head scratching calls make Tufts always the could have been team of the NESCAC.

Maine programs are what they are with Colby the team most likely to keep progressing if they can figure out ther QB position. Colby plays hard just need a few more solid recruiting classes and they are showing promise. Bates sadly many years to go before they can make some strides and same with Bowdoin.

Honestly have to say perhaps Spring ball may tell us who is the favorite going into next year and if Trinity and Middlebury have things figured out.

[Bantam4life]

You missed the point I beleive all the NESCAC schools are a tremndous educations. Ieach has there own pros and cons. If a student gets into Colby , Amherst or Trinity all are fabulous schools. However all being equal playing time would most certainly enter into his decision making process on which schhol to matriculate at.

Charlie,

Trinity and Colby are phenomenal schools.  Better than the directional state school I attended.

But rankings and perceptions do matter.  Williams and Amherst are consistently ranked and perceived far ahead of Trinity and Colby.

Now, if there is a track at either that leads to greater success than Williams and Amherst, please let me know.  I'm sure that may be possible.  However, I would not think the Liberal Arts design allows too many "tracks", so to speak.  Tufts is the only non-LA school, right?

I know Wesleyan has University in its title but it is a LA model, right?

Let the Teams with winning records discuss Football and Academics my Friend

[NESCACFball24/7]

I know it is early but does anybody know who may or may not be coming back for 5th years around the league? Seems to be a bigger deal for tufts,midd, and trinity if they can get guys like richardson or wood or other big players back.

[quicksilver]

I know it is early but does anybody know who may or may not be coming back for 5th years around the league? Seems to be a bigger deal for tufts,midd, and trinity if they can get guys like richardson or wood or other big players back.

Big for Bowdoin too. There are many superb Bowdoin seniors who have only played 3 seasons--Boel, Fahey, Eden, Jacobs, and Price come quickly to mind--who are eligible to play another season should they choose to do so . .

[lumbercat]

Quicksilver-
I think Saturday at Bowdoin is senior day. You might get a tip on guys planning to graduate if you pay attention to the pre game ceremony when they recognize the out going seniors with their families.

If a player already has his mind made up on playing a fifth year he most likely won't be in included the ceremony.
It's early with a lot of decisions to be made but you may get an early clue.

[quicksilver]

Bowdoin honored all the seniors on senior day so I was not certain that it provided information about who was returning for a fourth season or maybe it meant that decisions are not made until after the season.

[MammothDad]

Let the Teams with winning records discuss Football and Academics my Friend

Bantam4life,

True point.  And I'll let the discussion die for now.

However, I maintain the differing academic standards of each school is far more correlated to the performance on the field than anyone has given credit so far.

Note that NO ONE answered my straight forward question with 5 answers.

But take care and know I have nothing but respect for the hard work and team work of both Trinity and Middlebury.  I have great respect for the long haul coaching job the Coach Devanney has done over the years.

And lastly, I NEVER identified the school of the student who shared the athletes and student's opinion of the FB players at their own school.  A lot of assumptions, on the part of others.  And strangely only by one fan base?!?

[GroundandPound]

MammothDad,
        Do not be dissuaded by B4Life's arbitrary and frivolous standards for expressing one's opinions re: NESCAC football or academics.
Is the question you claim no one has answered "is there anything material, in the form of "commitment" as important as lowering academic standards to get better talent on the field?"
       I thought I gave a reasonable answer that, of course, one is entitled to disagree with:
"Unfortunately, academic standards do not explain Trinity's outstanding football program.  If it were as simple as academic standards, then Columbia and Brown would be winning Ivy Football championships as frequently as Trinity earns NESCAC championships.  Columbia and Brown have the lowest Academic Index in the Ivy League but only have combined for a total of 5 Ivy Football Titles in the last 67 years, compared to Trinity's 18 titles in the last 50 years (per Trinity 9-0) or 10 titles in the last 21 years.  In my opinion, great coaching, great recruiting, great player development, and a great football tradition play a much more substantial and significant role in Trinity's consistent success. It also appears from their website that they have a terrific alumni network for their players, which clearly helps with recruiting." 
          Yes, a commitment to hiring and retaining great coaches who can identify and successfully recruit the best players (via talent and work ethic), develop and prepare the players better than other programs, utilize them better than other programs, and design and call plays better than other programs.  Did Amherst lower academic standards to win their 6 NESCAC Titles?  I doubt it.  And even if they did, it still  takes great coaching to identify and recruit the best players. Again, Brown and Columbia have the lowest Academic Index re: football but why can't they earn titles as frequently as Trinity does?

[lumbercat]

G&P

Your Ivy League analogy using Columbia and Brown is not valid. As I explained in prior posts the guidelines are different in the NESACAC and the Ivies. It's much easier to deviate from conference "guidelines" in the NESCAC.

We see this with Trinity who admit to stretching guidelines lower for the Football program. I've always commended them for providing special institutional support for the lower bands and the team in general. Their commitment to the academic success of their Football players by providing Tutors and structured study is a profound commitment to Football which is unique in the NESCAC, commendable from my view. Wish all the NESCAC programs would/could do this.

At least 3 other NESCAC programs to my knowledge have been asked directly about making this same commitment in recent years. To summarize, the consistent answer is that they are not willing to make the financial commitment to a Tutorial program and further, are not willing to provide a structured Tutorial program specifically for the Football team. The feeling among other schools has generally been that they maintain selective admissions standards and their admitted recruits are capable of succeeding academically. However, if needed, individual help and assistance from the faculty is always available to all.

Hope we move on from this issue as the season ends this weekend.

[RoostersBy90]

I know Trinity is the ONLY school with a dedicated FB weight room but is there anything material, in the form of "commitment" as important as lowering academic standards to get better talent on the field?

I'm sure there are many other D3 Programs that would love to swap locker rooms, weight rooms, equipment etc. with ANY of the NESCAC schools.  So when we really measure "commitment", isn't making deviations from the student norm the most important thing?

I'll leave a school name out of this but I did meet an athlete who "front doored" a school in the NESCAC who has a great football  program and he/she said ALL of the athletes at the school look down on the FB players for not being close to the academic standards of the rest of the student body.

Trinity does not have a dedicated FB weight room. There is a varsity weight room for all teams to use which FB uses.

[MammothDad]

...
       I thought I gave a reasonable answer that, of course, one is entitled to disagree with:
"Unfortunately, academic standards do not explain Trinity's outstanding football program.  If it were as simple as academic standards, then Columbia and Brown would be winning Ivy Football championships as frequently as Trinity earns NESCAC championships.  Columbia and Brown have the lowest Academic Index in the Ivy League but only have combined for a total of 5 Ivy Football Titles in the last 67 years, compared to Trinity's 18 titles in the last 50 years (per Trinity 9-0) or 10 titles in the last 21 years.  In my opinion, great coaching, great recruiting, great player development, and a great football tradition play a much more substantial and significant role in Trinity's consistent success. It also appears from their website that they have a terrific alumni network for their players, which clearly helps with recruiting." 
          Yes, a commitment to hiring and retaining great coaches who can identify and successfully recruit the best players (via talent and work ethic), develop and prepare the players better than other programs, utilize them better than other programs, and design and call plays better than other programs.  Did Amherst lower academic standards to win their 6 NESCAC Titles?  I doubt it.  And even if they did, it still  takes great coaching to identify and recruit the best players. Again, Brown and Columbia have the lowest Academic Index re: football but why can't they earn titles as frequently as Trinity does?

Yes, you did answer what you restated.  My comment was in respect to the multiple choice "bound" I offered in return to yours and many others.

However, to respectfully reply to your specific, well thought out response ...

Things I agree with you on in regards to "Commitment to FB" things equal to or greater than an expanded pool of eligibility to look for athletes:

* Coaches - money can buy better coaches and a bigger staff.  I remember Trinity bosting about a "dedicated weights coach" that was not just an additional duty to an existing FB Coach
* Talent selection - I do remember Trinity saying they don't start "offering" until SEP.  All of the other Colleges were trying to get all of the admissions requirements in as closely to the NESCAC established timeline date and all of the others were "offering" in JUL, during the Camps they were trolling at the Ivies
* Develop and prepare - I'll chalk that up to Coaching.  Again, ALL Coaches think they develop and prepare.  So the "Commitment to FB" from an Admin perspective is offering $ to get the best candidates and to assist the AD in finding the best candidate.
* Play calling - see Coaches

So I agree a better Coach is a HUGE compenent to winning on the field.  As for how you get one due to your "Comittment to FB", they all hope they hire the best.  And pay isn't always the ONLY factor a Coach will consider before accepting a job.  I'm sure historic programs like Bates and Hamilton would have to pay 2 times (or more?) what Middlebury and Trinity do to hire away their current coaches.

So we agree that money in to Coaching to get the best is a huge factor.


Did Amherst lower?  I CAN NOT SPEAK WITH ANY OFFICIAL KNOWLEDE of the Program.  Nor would I if I could.  I can only report "scuttlebutt" and that is that Biddy tightened standards during her reign.  Read in to that what you want.


Now on to Brown and Columbia.

Have you been to Columbia?  What athlete in their right mind wants to waste 3 hours a day in transit on a bus to their weight room and facilities during the season.  And in the offseason, Columbia is too dumb to make a weight room on campus, causing them 1.5 hours of transit.  Who plays for Columbia?  They athletes who didn't get an offer from another Ivy.  Possibly a Wall Street kid could choose the athletic life of Columbia as being "worth it".

For Brown?  I think the culture of Brown causes a lot of athletes to hope the other 6 or Columbia come through first.  I was laughing at the Camp seeing how their culture translates in to the coaching and training staff.  A grandmother like trainer was non-chalantly tossing items into the playing area that could have easily caused serious damage to a back peddling camp attendee.  As you can imagine, NO DAD in his right minds wants to draw attention to himself when is kid is trying to impress the staff but many had to speak up to the coaches to stop the drill, being that they too were too clueless to notice.

Both the Trinity and Middlebury Coaches are doing great.  I also notice the consistency of Wesleyan and Tufts.  Coach Mills has won in the past and let's hope winning days are ahead.


But I sure wish 10 coaches could honestly answer my question of one wish amongst 5 options, ANONOMOUSLY ...

I best E would win out:

Coach, if only one, which would you want:

A. Dedicated weight room for your players, shared ONLY with other athletes
B. A Colby Starship
C. Whatever facilities Middlebury has
D. AstroTurfed Hockey Rink
E. Lowered standards to that of the lowest NESCAC School.  If the lowest school, a 100 point reduction on the SAT requirement and .3 less on GPA


As for the $ for the Coaching Staffs, that would be interested to see the sum total for salaries on FB Operations for each.  I've been quite impressed with how some of you can whip up stats so fast.  Maybe one can find this info.