FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Charlie]

Playoffs

I know it is way to early to speculate but between the Ivy League football viasco having three teams Harvard , Yale & Dartmouth all share the title is crazy. Especially since Yale beat Harvard yesterday.

I am assuming since this occcurred and the NESCAC football ending the way it has the brain trust of the NESCAC has to come to some type of resolution. I mean hats off to both schools and I am not going to get into the merits of who should be crowned champion but in no scenario would the founding fathers of NESCAC envisioned this occurring.

I understand how NESCAC has adpated to the times by allowing spring football and potentially opeing up to a future game or playoffs. I think this needs to be adressed though and a deciding game to be played and or playoffs.

[lumbercat]

Most/all of the NESCAC coaches  monitor the academic progress of their players weekly.

Trinity provides a direct tutorial program with study hall requirements for their football players specifically.
The only NESCAC Football program that goes to that extent.

Like Charlie said, tufts does this as well. Trinity does a lot of things well but not all of it (especially study hall for the football team) is revolutionary lol.

The Tufts program is nothing like what they have been doing at Trinity for many years. Trinity provides direct faculty tutorial involvement along with structured study programs, mandatory study hall etc...  no one else in the Nescac does this.

[Ephmen]

Yes

There may be tutorial help available to others but nothing like the program the have for Football. It's a great program.

I actually view that as a problem, if the football team requires assistance other teams don't.

I assume all students have access to a fair amount of assistance already: professors hold office hours, teaching assistants can work with students and run review sessions, writing workshops / quant assistance, etc.

If a particular team needs more, I think they're getting too far from the academic norm.

[The Ghost of John Wesley]

Yes

There may be tutorial help available to others but nothing like the program the have for Football. It's a great program.

I actually view that as a problem, if the football team requires assistance other teams don't.

I assume all students have access to a fair amount of assistance already: professors hold office hours, teaching assistants can work with students and run review sessions, writing workshops / quant assistance, etc.

If a particular team needs more, I think they're getting too far from the academic norm.

Agree 100%.

There's no reason a particular team at a school should need assistance over and above what the school's other teams receive. Doesn't matter if it's football, basketball, field hockey, or squash. Any assistance required outside what is regularly offered to other athletes speaks to that particular team having standards below the school's norm for student-athletes.

In today's NESCAC environment, I would think that can only become a problem. The nail that sticks out gets the hammer.

[BigKat]

Playoffs

I know it is way to early to speculate but between the Ivy League football viasco having three teams Harvard , Yale & Dartmouth all share the title is crazy. Especially since Yale beat Harvard yesterday.

I am assuming since this occcurred and the NESCAC football ending the way it has the brain trust of the NESCAC has to come to some type of resolution. I mean hats off to both schools and I am not going to get into the merits of who should be crowned champion but in no scenario would the founding fathers of NESCAC envisioned this occurring.

I understand how NESCAC has adpated to the times by allowing spring football and potentially opeing up to a future game or playoffs. I think this needs to be adressed though and a deciding game to be played and or playoffs.

Chaz, ask MD, he's our resident Ivy expert;) Going to take a wild guess he didn't play Ivy's or have sons that did like a few on this board.

Yes, agreed, a shared title in nonsense. Holy Cross shared the PL title but lost H2H vs Lafayette and therefore were left out of the tourney. Would hope in a hypothetical Nescac scenario the Bants would be left at home this year as Midd would get the bid.

[GroundandPound]

The Number of ALL-NESCAC Players from the top four teams over the last five years:

2017
1. Trinity  14
2. Middlebury 10
3. Amherst 10
4. Wesleyan 8

2018
1. Trinity (8-1)  12
2. Amherst (8-1) 12
3. Tufts  7
4. Middlebury 7
4. Wesleyan 6

2019
1. Middlebury 11
2. Wesleyan 13
3. Trinity 9
4. Amherst 7

2021
1. Williams 11
2. Trinity 10
3. Wesleyan 8
4. Amherst 6

2022:
1. Trinity 14
2. Middlebury 8
3. Tufts 8
3. Wesleyan 8
4. Colby 5

[Charlie]

Yes

There may be tutorial help available to others but nothing like the program the have for Football. It's a great program.

I actually view that as a problem, if the football team requires assistance other teams don't.

I assume all students have access to a fair amount of assistance already: professors hold office hours, teaching assistants can work with students and run review sessions, writing workshops / quant assistance, etc.

If a particular team needs more, I think they're getting too far from the academic norm.

Agree 100%.

There's no reason a particular team at a school should need assistance over and above what the school's other teams receive. Doesn't matter if it's football, basketball, field hockey, or squash. Any assistance required outside what is regularly offered to other athletes speaks to that particular team having standards below the school's norm for student-athletes.

In today's NESCAC environment, I would think that can only become a problem. The nail that sticks out gets the hammer.

As expected you are wrong in this instance. What Trinity does is actually smart. This study Hall is for Freshman only and any other student on the football team that feels like they need help. There are office hours and all the above mentioned. The program was designed to acclimate Freshman in their first year and get used to the College environment and the academic rigors of NESCAC. I think a great way of getting Freshman used to college academics and the balancing of playing football and academics. So the only thing above that Trinity is offering is a study hall. I can't believe we are now complaining about students studying too much and that is an advantage Trinity has.

[NESCACFball24/7]

Yes

There may be tutorial help available to others but nothing like the program the have for Football. It's a great program.

I actually view that as a problem, if the football team requires assistance other teams don't.

I assume all students have access to a fair amount of assistance already: professors hold office hours, teaching assistants can work with students and run review sessions, writing workshops / quant assistance, etc.

If a particular team needs more, I think they're getting too far from the academic norm.

This is a basic level of support provided to athletes at almost every successful college athletic department across the country(yes the ivies included since everything this league does is based off of them). There is no reason that giving student athletes who have a much more hectic and demanding schedule than regular students should be looked down upon for taking advantage of extra help opportunities and the same goes for the programs that are supporting their student athletes and helping them succeed.

[lumbercat]

I Agree- Trinity should not be vilified for going above and beyond the basic level of academic support for their football team.
I don't know for a fact but would not be surprised if the tutorial program is funded in some way with funds raised by the Football program.
Bantams have a huge Football fundraising arsenal.

[Hawk196]

Congratulations to the true (and only deserving) 2023 NESCAC Football Champions, your Middlebury Panthers. Great season (minus one week) and amazing job by first year HCOF Mandigo and the Middlebury student-athletes.

As the saying goes..."to be the champion, you have to beat the champion".

So Nescacman why is the IVy League who have three co champions this year Harvard , Yale , Dartmouth. This is also after Yale beat Harvard yesterday and still get a share of championship. Perhaps now the Ivy League will make a change in this insane set up and NESCAC will follow. Maybe extra game playoff or something this is ridiculous.

Yale could be winless and beating Harvard IS the championship. Harvard is co-champs, but you could tell they "lost" on Saturday.
That happened to my son his freshman year, Tony Reno was with Yale for a few years and there were rumblings he was on a short leash. My son's freshman team lost 70 - something to Harvard, but the Varsity team avenged that loss the next day. Harvard was kind of the "Trinity" of that league, but after that Yale win, the changing of the guard started. Reno is an excellent recruiter and you can see it by what they've done the past 6yrs (4 national championships). In 2019 Yale beat Harvard in the (protest) game, with that win they shared the championship with Dartmouth, who beat Yale earlier in the year. Dartmouth lost to Brown that year (ie Trinity vs U Bates), so it kind of "evened things out"

[The Ghost of John Wesley]

Yes

There may be tutorial help available to others but nothing like the program the have for Football. It's a great program.

I actually view that as a problem, if the football team requires assistance other teams don't.

I assume all students have access to a fair amount of assistance already: professors hold office hours, teaching assistants can work with students and run review sessions, writing workshops / quant assistance, etc.

If a particular team needs more, I think they're getting too far from the academic norm.

Agree 100%.

There's no reason a particular team at a school should need assistance over and above what the school's other teams receive. Doesn't matter if it's football, basketball, field hockey, or squash. Any assistance required outside what is regularly offered to other athletes speaks to that particular team having standards below the school's norm for student-athletes.

In today's NESCAC environment, I would think that can only become a problem. The nail that sticks out gets the hammer.

As expected you are wrong in this instance. What Trinity does is actually smart. This study Hall is for Freshman only and any other student on the football team that feels like they need help. There are office hours and all the above mentioned. The program was designed to acclimate Freshman in their first year and get used to the College environment and the academic rigors of NESCAC. I think a great way of getting Freshman used to college academics and the balancing of playing football and academics. So the only thing above that Trinity is offering is a study hall. I can't believe we are now complaining about students studying too much and that is an advantage Trinity has.

A couple comments:

"As expected you are wrong..."

Why would you expect that I would have a "wrong" opinion about this subject? Are you clairvoyant and knew that I would respond in this manner? I don't think I've ever shared an opinion or otherwise discussed Trinity's academics or tutoring program--on this board or elsewhere.

"The program was designed to acclimate Freshman in their first year and get used to the College environment and the academic rigors of NESCAC. I think a great way of getting Freshman used to college academics and the balancing of playing football and academics."

Agreed that tutoring or college acclimation programs can be great for freshmen students, particularly freshmen student-athletes. It sounds like a great program that bears wonderfully ripe fruit for the team.

So why isn't this program extended to the other sports at the school? Is it because the other sports don't need it (no demand), or because they don't have the resources or institutional support to install such a program for their respective sports? If the former, that means the specific team with the extra academic support program has student-athletes on its roster below the standards of the school's other student-athletes; if the latter, that means the specific team with the extra tutoring program has resources or support above and beyond what the other sports enjoy.

Thoughts?

[lumbercat]

Yes

There may be tutorial help available to others but nothing like the program the have for Football. It's a great program.

I actually view that as a problem, if the football team requires assistance other teams don't.

I assume all students have access to a fair amount of assistance already: professors hold office hours, teaching assistants can work with students and run review sessions, writing workshops / quant assistance, etc.

If a particular team needs more, I think they're getting too far from the academic norm.

Agree 100%.

There's no reason a particular team at a school should need assistance over and above what the school's other teams receive. Doesn't matter if it's football, basketball, field hockey, or squash. Any assistance required outside what is regularly offered to other athletes speaks to that particular team having standards below the school's norm for student-athletes.

In today's NESCAC environment, I would think that can only become a problem. The nail that sticks out gets the hammer.

As expected you are wrong in this instance. What Trinity does is actually smart. This study Hall is for Freshman only and any other student on the football team that feels like they need help. There are office hours and all the above mentioned. The program was designed to acclimate Freshman in their first year and get used to the College environment and the academic rigors of NESCAC. I think a great way of getting Freshman used to college academics and the balancing of playing football and academics. So the only thing above that Trinity is offering is a study hall. I can't believe we are now complaining about students studying too much and that is an advantage Trinity has.

A couple comments:

"As expected you are wrong..."

Why would you expect that I would have a "wrong" opinion about this subject? Are you clairvoyant and knew that I would respond in this manner? I don't think I've ever shared an opinion or otherwise discussed Trinity's academics or tutoring program--on this board or elsewhere.

"The program was designed to acclimate Freshman in their first year and get used to the College environment and the academic rigors of NESCAC. I think a great way of getting Freshman used to college academics and the balancing of playing football and academics."

Agreed that tutoring or college acclimation programs can be great for freshmen students, particularly freshmen student-athletes. It sounds like a great program that bears wonderfully ripe fruit for the team.

So why isn't this program extended to the other sports at the school? Is it because the other sports don't need it (no demand), or because they don't have the resources or institutional support to install such a program for their respective sports? If the former, that means the specific team with the extra academic support program has student-athletes on its roster below the standards of the school's other student-athletes; if the latter, that means the specific team with the extra tutoring program has resources or support above and beyond what the other sports enjoy.

Thoughts?

The tutor program is specific to Football.  They don't hide the fact that the school is more flexible on their admissions standards for Football than they may be on the rest of the student body.

[MammothDad]

I guess I'll take one more shot at this but I really don't understand why the NESCAC keeps flipping back and forth on tie-breaking procedures.

In 2002 (when I was a student), Williams and Trinity each finished 7-1 and were named co-champions. My Williams friends (I have only a very select few) were upset because they beat Trinity that year (but lost to Amherst in a glorious upset for Coach Farley's last game!) and felt that they should win the tiebreaker. But there was no tiebreaker.

In 2018 Amherst and Trinity both finish 8-1 yet Trinity claims the sole crown based on its win over Amherst which all of a sudden counts as a tiebreaker. Now Midd and Trin both finish 8-1 but Midd's win over Trin is not considered a tiebreaker. What gives?? Why keep flipping back and forth on this? Is the rule that Trin wins regardless of the rules???!

I think Amherst should now claim a share of the 2018 title. Seems like we were robbed!

Logical and ONLY fair!

I hate the "no tie breaker for head to head" decision.  But its comical for a League of "intellectuals" to NOT be consistent.  It doesn't matter what the rule is for the year.  If they change it, it should be retroactive and the Champions page needs to be updated.

Either Middlebury is the SOLE 2023 FB Champ or Amherst is the 2018 Co Champ.

[Nescacman]

Nescacman Special Report: 2023 Season Awards

Our final rankings will be out tomorrow, but today, we present our 2023 NESCAC Football Awards:

Offensive Players of the Year: There are several deserving players this year. including Fetter, Richardson, Berlutti, and Clapp. Knowing the league like we do, we think that they will have co-winners since they won't make the hard choice. Since they love QBs and won't give it to two players from the same team, we'll go with Fetter and Richardson (although we think Clapp and Richardson are probably more deserving). Running up the score is validated at the end of the day.

Defensive Player of the Year: Hands down, Kenary from league Champion Middlebury.

Rookie of the Year: Since the league loves QB's, we'll go with QB Kerzum from Hamilton, even though we think Gering will ultimately be a more impactful player over the next 3 years for the Ephs. Maybe they will be co-winners. The league used to do an offensive and defensive ROY but went away from that. This award should be renamed the "freshman of the year", IOO. Lot's of talented sophs playing for the first time but alas, they are not eligible.

Coach of the Year: HCOF Doug Mandigo from the aforementioned league champion. Congratulations on a great first year, Coach!

[MammothDad]

The tutor program is specific to Football.  They don't hide the fact that the school is more flexible on their admissions standards for Football than they may be on the rest of the student body.

Lumbercat,

Brace for impact.  There are many thin skinned, sensitive Trinity fans on this forum.

With that dig, I have no problem with Trinity watching after their FB Player's with tutoring help.  I wish it was offered at Amherst.

I hope you have proof of that lowered admissions claim.  I shared factual, first hand anecdotal information and I think 2 have already consulted with attorneys to see if I am libel for damaging an institution I NEVER named.



Take care!