FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[lumbercat]

Disagree- can't remember Trinity ever pulling starters in the first half or early in the third quarter. Nor should they. No idea where you are coming up with that.
Thats too early to pull starters in any game, by any team.

Absolute fact that Trin pulled starters at halftime of at least one game this season.

That absolute fact would be an absolute first- in which game ?

[bantamweight]

Absolute fact that Trin pulled starters at halftime of at least one game this season.

That absolute fact would be an absolute first- in which game ?

Amherst was one.

[Charlie]

Yes

There may be tutorial help available to others but nothing like the program the have for Football. It's a great program.

I actually view that as a problem, if the football team requires assistance other teams don't.

I assume all students have access to a fair amount of assistance already: professors hold office hours, teaching assistants can work with students and run review sessions, writing workshops / quant assistance, etc.

If a particular team needs more, I think they're getting too far from the academic norm.

Agree 100%.

There's no reason a particular team at a school should need assistance over and above what the school's other teams receive. Doesn't matter if it's football, basketball, field hockey, or squash. Any assistance required outside what is regularly offered to other athletes speaks to that particular team having standards below the school's norm for student-athletes.

In today's NESCAC environment, I would think that can only become a problem. The nail that sticks out gets the hammer.

As expected you are wrong in this instance. What Trinity does is actually smart. This study Hall is for Freshman only and any other student on the football team that feels like they need help. There are office hours and all the above mentioned. The program was designed to acclimate Freshman in their first year and get used to the College environment and the academic rigors of NESCAC. I think a great way of getting Freshman used to college academics and the balancing of playing football and academics. So the only thing above that Trinity is offering is a study hall. I can't believe we are now complaining about students studying too much and that is an advantage Trinity has.

A couple comments:

"As expected you are wrong..."

Why would you expect that I would have a "wrong" opinion about this subject? Are you clairvoyant and knew that I would respond in this manner? I don't think I've ever shared an opinion or otherwise discussed Trinity's academics or tutoring program--on this board or elsewhere.

"The program was designed to acclimate Freshman in their first year and get used to the College environment and the academic rigors of NESCAC. I think a great way of getting Freshman used to college academics and the balancing of playing football and academics."

Agreed that tutoring or college acclimation programs can be great for freshmen students, particularly freshmen student-athletes. It sounds like a great program that bears wonderfully ripe fruit for the team.

So why isn't this program extended to the other sports at the school? Is it because the other sports don't need it (no demand), or because they don't have the resources or institutional support to install such a program for their respective sports? If the former, that means the specific team with the extra academic support program has student-athletes on its roster below the standards of the school's other student-athletes; if the latter, that means the specific team with the extra tutoring program has resources or support above and beyond what the other sports enjoy.

Thoughts?

How do you know it is not offered to other sports ?

In fact I know that Hamilton has study hours for its football team as well as baketball teams which by the way won the NESCAC last year in hoops. Coach Coyne also introduced the same academic studies in his football program as well.

Tufts implemented the same type of program in its baseball program for the entire team rather then just freshman. You are also casting wide net on entire football program when the primary focus of this program is for freshman not the entire team but help is available if players need assistance just like any NESCAC student.

Again not sure why you are so rattled by students wanting to do well academically. A regular student at any of these schools can get tutors and extra help when needed. Not sure where you think the scales are tipped in anyones favor.

[lumbercat]

Charlie-
Not rattled by it- I commend it. Read my posts.

[NESCAC BULLY]

I cannot fathom how we have co-champions this year. Same record, winner goes to the head-to-head game. Simple, Easy, Effective. If there are three teams with the same record and you have a circular result (like the CBB issue last year), then you have a push with co-champions.
Nothing against Trinity, but Middlebury hands-down deserves the Sole Champion title.

Keep the issue nameless/faceless and leave the team names out of it (since everyone seems to hate Trinity).

And Trinity seemed to call off the dogs in the 2nd half, giving others some play time.

Really?!? What games were you watching?

The only reason Fetter WON'T be NESCAC OPOTY by himself is because he racked up a bunch of stats running up the score...had Hartford State shown a bit more sportsmanship, perhaps all the other opposing HCOF's would have voted for Fetter instead of potentially splitting their votes...Fetter can thank HCOF Jeff for that (and throwing the ball at the Middlebury player at the end of that game).

Do your research before posting something like this Nescacman. Fetter/Clapp are the only two options for NESCAC OPOTY. Look at Fetter's point differential between first and second half of nearly every game and then get back to me. Watch Trinity's games from this season well you are at it, Trinity starters were out before the end of the third quarter almost every game. The backups are talented and play hard.

On another note, your personal vendetta against a 23 year-old kid is quite suspect. I understand it is college football and tensions can flare, but why take personal shots? Oh wait...I suppose you are still disgruntled after that absolute nail-biter of a "rivalry game" in Middletown two weeks ago. There is always next year though! (Wes has won 2 out of the last 20 matchups, just for reference)

"You may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you."
--Walt Disney

[Nescacman]

I cannot fathom how we have co-champions this year. Same record, winner goes to the head-to-head game. Simple, Easy, Effective. If there are three teams with the same record and you have a circular result (like the CBB issue last year), then you have a push with co-champions.
Nothing against Trinity, but Middlebury hands-down deserves the Sole Champion title.

Keep the issue nameless/faceless and leave the team names out of it (since everyone seems to hate Trinity).

And Trinity seemed to call off the dogs in the 2nd half, giving others some play time.

Really?!? What games were you watching?

The only reason Fetter WON'T be NESCAC OPOTY by himself is because he racked up a bunch of stats running up the score...had Hartford State shown a bit more sportsmanship, perhaps all the other opposing HCOF's would have voted for Fetter instead of potentially splitting their votes...Fetter can thank HCOF Jeff for that (and throwing the ball at the Middlebury player at the end of that game).

Do your research before posting something like this Nescacman. Fetter/Clapp are the only two options for NESCAC OPOTY. Look at Fetter's point differential between first and second half of nearly every game and then get back to me. Watch Trinity's games from this season well you are at it, Trinity starters were out before the end of the third quarter almost every game. The backups are talented and play hard.

On another note, your personal vendetta against a 23 year-old kid is quite suspect. I understand it is college football and tensions can flare, but why take personal shots? Oh wait...I suppose you are still disgruntled after that absolute nail-biter of a "rivalry game" in Middletown two weeks ago. There is always next year though! (Wes has won 2 out of the last 20 matchups, just for reference)

"You may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you."
--Walt Disney

No personal shots, we call it like we see it. And btw, we're not the only one on this Board who sees it this way. Go back and read the posts.

When Richardson wins at least a share of OPOTY, we'll accept your apology. In order to be co-winners, it would mean that four coaches voted for each guy since HCOF's Jeff and Jay can't vote for their own players. If Fetter is such a slam dunk winner, why do you think 4 coaches would vote for Fetter? Guarantee you that Coaches Coyne, Dice, Hammer, and probably Mandigo didn't vote for Fetter. Hmm, wonder why??? We know this league all too well...

[Nescacman]

I cannot fathom how we have co-champions this year. Same record, winner goes to the head-to-head game. Simple, Easy, Effective. If there are three teams with the same record and you have a circular result (like the CBB issue last year), then you have a push with co-champions.
Nothing against Trinity, but Middlebury hands-down deserves the Sole Champion title.

Keep the issue nameless/faceless and leave the team names out of it (since everyone seems to hate Trinity).

And Trinity seemed to call off the dogs in the 2nd half, giving others some play time.

Really?!? What games were you watching?

The only reason Fetter WON'T be NESCAC OPOTY by himself is because he racked up a bunch of stats running up the score...had Hartford State shown a bit more sportsmanship, perhaps all the other opposing HCOF's would have voted for Fetter instead of potentially splitting their votes...Fetter can thank HCOF Jeff for that (and throwing the ball at the Middlebury player at the end of that game).

Do your research before posting something like this Nescacman. Fetter/Clapp are the only two options for NESCAC OPOTY. Look at Fetter's point differential between first and second half of nearly every game and then get back to me. Watch Trinity's games from this season well you are at it, Trinity starters were out before the end of the third quarter almost every game. The backups are talented and play hard.

On another note, your personal vendetta against a 23 year-old kid is quite suspect. I understand it is college football and tensions can flare, but why take personal shots? Oh wait...I suppose you are still disgruntled after that absolute nail-biter of a "rivalry game" in Middletown two weeks ago. There is always next year though! (Wes has won 2 out of the last 20 matchups, just for reference)

"You may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you."
--Walt Disney

Oh, one more thing Mr. Bully. You're obviously new to this Board so welcome onboard. We love friendly, passionate and good natured kidding/banter. But you may want to be careful. We believe your threatening quote directed towards us is a violation of the Board's TOS so you might want to be more cautious before your posting career ends before it has begun. 

[NESCACFball24/7]

Does anyone know when the awards get announced?

[Nescacman]

Does anyone know when the awards get announced?

We would say prob tomorrow or Weds. But this is the NESCAC so could be anytime between tomorrow and next September...

[BantChamps]

I cannot fathom how we have co-champions this year. Same record, winner goes to the head-to-head game. Simple, Easy, Effective. If there are three teams with the same record and you have a circular result (like the CBB issue last year), then you have a push with co-champions.
Nothing against Trinity, but Middlebury hands-down deserves the Sole Champion title.

Keep the issue nameless/faceless and leave the team names out of it (since everyone seems to hate Trinity).

And Trinity seemed to call off the dogs in the 2nd half, giving others some play time.

Really?!? What games were you watching?

The only reason Fetter WON'T be NESCAC OPOTY by himself is because he racked up a bunch of stats running up the score...had Hartford State shown a bit more sportsmanship, perhaps all the other opposing HCOF's would have voted for Fetter instead of potentially splitting their votes...Fetter can thank HCOF Jeff for that (and throwing the ball at the Middlebury player at the end of that game).

Do your research before posting something like this Nescacman. Fetter/Clapp are the only two options for NESCAC OPOTY. Look at Fetter's point differential between first and second half of nearly every game and then get back to me. Watch Trinity's games from this season well you are at it, Trinity starters were out before the end of the third quarter almost every game. The backups are talented and play hard.

On another note, your personal vendetta against a 23 year-old kid is quite suspect. I understand it is college football and tensions can flare, but why take personal shots? Oh wait...I suppose you are still disgruntled after that absolute nail-biter of a "rivalry game" in Middletown two weeks ago. There is always next year though! (Wes has won 2 out of the last 20 matchups, just for reference)

"You may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you."
--Walt Disney

No personal shots, we call it like we see it. And btw, we're not the only one on this Board who sees it this way. Go back and read the posts.

When Richardson wins at least a share of OPOTY, we'll accept your apology. In order to be co-winners, it would mean that four coaches voted for each guy since HCOF's Jeff and Jay can't vote for their own players. If Fetter is such a slam dunk winner, why do you think 4 coaches would vote for Fetter? Guarantee you that Coaches Coyne, Dice, Hammer, and probably Mandigo didn't vote for Fetter. Hmm, wonder why??? We know this league all too well...

NM-

Not doubting you know this league. You've been around a for a while doing this league a service that people (for better or worst) appreciate, truly. But to say that those coaches won't vote fetter shows your bias...a lot. I'll eat my words if I'm wrong but it's hard to deny absolute dominance. Both in the league, and through Trinity College History. Shame on the coaches that let pride get in the way of a college athlete's accomplishments.

[The Ghost of John Wesley]

Yes

There may be tutorial help available to others but nothing like the program the have for Football. It's a great program.

I actually view that as a problem, if the football team requires assistance other teams don't.

I assume all students have access to a fair amount of assistance already: professors hold office hours, teaching assistants can work with students and run review sessions, writing workshops / quant assistance, etc.

If a particular team needs more, I think they're getting too far from the academic norm.

Agree 100%.

There's no reason a particular team at a school should need assistance over and above what the school's other teams receive. Doesn't matter if it's football, basketball, field hockey, or squash. Any assistance required outside what is regularly offered to other athletes speaks to that particular team having standards below the school's norm for student-athletes.

In today's NESCAC environment, I would think that can only become a problem. The nail that sticks out gets the hammer.

As expected you are wrong in this instance. What Trinity does is actually smart. This study Hall is for Freshman only and any other student on the football team that feels like they need help. There are office hours and all the above mentioned. The program was designed to acclimate Freshman in their first year and get used to the College environment and the academic rigors of NESCAC. I think a great way of getting Freshman used to college academics and the balancing of playing football and academics. So the only thing above that Trinity is offering is a study hall. I can't believe we are now complaining about students studying too much and that is an advantage Trinity has.

A couple comments:

"As expected you are wrong..."

Why would you expect that I would have a "wrong" opinion about this subject? Are you clairvoyant and knew that I would respond in this manner? I don't think I've ever shared an opinion or otherwise discussed Trinity's academics or tutoring program--on this board or elsewhere.

"The program was designed to acclimate Freshman in their first year and get used to the College environment and the academic rigors of NESCAC. I think a great way of getting Freshman used to college academics and the balancing of playing football and academics."

Agreed that tutoring or college acclimation programs can be great for freshmen students, particularly freshmen student-athletes. It sounds like a great program that bears wonderfully ripe fruit for the team.

So why isn't this program extended to the other sports at the school? Is it because the other sports don't need it (no demand), or because they don't have the resources or institutional support to install such a program for their respective sports? If the former, that means the specific team with the extra academic support program has student-athletes on its roster below the standards of the school's other student-athletes; if the latter, that means the specific team with the extra tutoring program has resources or support above and beyond what the other sports enjoy.

Thoughts?

How do you know it is not offered to other sports ?

In fact I know that Hamilton has study hours for its football team as well as baketball teams which by the way won the NESCAC last year in hoops. Coach Coyne also introduced the same academic studies in his football program as well.

Tufts implemented the same type of program in its baseball program for the entire team rather then just freshman. You are also casting wide net on entire football program when the primary focus of this program is for freshman not the entire team but help is available if players need assistance just like any NESCAC student.

Again not sure why you are so rattled by students wanting to do well academically. A regular student at any of these schools can get tutors and extra help when needed. Not sure where you think the scales are tipped in anyones favor.

How do you know it is not offered to other sports ?

For the particular school you are hung up on (Trinity):  There are several posts by members over the last few pages confirming that it's a football specific program.

[Sentences about other schools and tutoring]

Go back and read my original post (pg. 1457), the one in response to Ephmen. Notice how I don't mention a specific school. My comment and my opinions are school-agnostic--it has nothing to do with Trinity specifically. My comment was directed at the potentially poor optics of any school in the league having a special tutoring/help program for one sport and not others. If any school in NESCAC has a sport-specific program that wasn't also extended to other sports, I would think that's a potential problem and PR nightmare for that school. If you have any proximity to the schools in the league, you would understand that "equity" and fairness are paramount.

Again not sure why you are so rattled by students wanting to do well academically.

Where and how have you gotten this impression? Go back and read my response where I said "Agreed that tutoring or college acclimation programs can be great for freshmen students, particularly freshmen student-athletes. It sounds like a great program that bears wonderfully ripe fruit for the team." I'm all for student-athletics excelling academically. I made an observation that having a sport-specific tutoring program would likely create a problem since on the surface it seems to reveal one of the following realities: 1) the academic standards for said team are lower than other teams; 2) said team has greater institutional support and resources than the other teams at the school. As stated above, if you have any exposure to the schools and administrations in the league, you would understand that either of these realities is potentially problematic.

I'm not trying to be hostile or rude to you, Charlie, as you seem to have a vested interest in the league for some reason and small school football needs all of the supporters it can get. But are you actually reading the stuff written on the board by others? Because I'm struggling mightily to follow the logic.

[bantamweight]

"You may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you."
--Walt Disney

Oh, one more thing Mr. Bully. You're obviously new to this Board so welcome onboard. We love friendly, passionate and good natured kidding/banter. But you may want to be careful. We believe your threatening quote directed towards us is a violation of the Board's TOS so you might want to be more cautious before your posting career ends before it has begun.

Did his quote scare you? Did he frighten your entire posse of poll voters?

Far more likely you are trying to silence someone with whom you disagree.

LilNescacMan, you are really coming unhinged.

[BigKat]

I cannot fathom how we have co-champions this year. Same record, winner goes to the head-to-head game. Simple, Easy, Effective. If there are three teams with the same record and you have a circular result (like the CBB issue last year), then you have a push with co-champions.
Nothing against Trinity, but Middlebury hands-down deserves the Sole Champion title.

Keep the issue nameless/faceless and leave the team names out of it (since everyone seems to hate Trinity).




And Trinity seemed to call off the dogs in the 2nd half, giving others some play time.

Really?!? What games were you watching?

The only reason Fetter WON'T be NESCAC OPOTY by himself is because he racked up a bunch of stats running up the score...had Hartford State shown a bit more sportsmanship, perhaps all the other opposing HCOF's would have voted for Fetter instead of potentially splitting their votes...Fetter can thank HCOF Jeff for that (and throwing the ball at the Middlebury player at the end of that game).

Do your research before posting something like this Nescacman. Fetter/Clapp are the only two options for NESCAC OPOTY. Look at Fetter's point differential between first and second half of nearly every game and then get back to me. Watch Trinity's games from this season well you are at it, Trinity starters were out before the end of the third quarter almost every game. The backups are talented and play hard.

On another note, your personal vendetta against a 23 year-old kid is quite suspect. I understand it is college football and tensions can flare, but why take personal shots? Oh wait...I suppose you are still disgruntled after that absolute nail-biter of a "rivalry game" in Middletown two weeks ago. There is always next year though! (Wes has won 2 out of the last 20 matchups, just for reference)

"You may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you."
--Walt Disney

No personal shots, we call it like we see it. And btw, we're not the only one on this Board who sees it this way. Go back and read the posts.

When Richardson wins at least a share of OPOTY, we'll accept your apology. In order to be co-winners, it would mean that four coaches voted for each guy since HCOF's Jeff and Jay can't vote for their own players. If Fetter is such a slam dunk winner, why do you think 4 coaches would vote for Fetter? Guarantee you that Coaches Coyne, Dice, Hammer, and probably Mandigo didn't vote for Fetter. Hmm, wonder why??? We know this league all too well...

NM-

Not doubting you know this league. You've been around a for a while doing this league a service that people (for better or worst) appreciate, truly. But to say that those coaches won't vote fetter shows your bias...a lot. I'll eat my words if I'm wrong but it's hard to deny absolute dominance. Both in the league, and through Trinity College History. Shame on the coaches that let pride get in the way of a college athlete's accomplishments.

Daddyville getting chippy I see. Awards is a misnomer; let's say all league recognition. In total agreement that Fetter should get OPOY but there have been some egregious misses in years past. Can think of 3/4 players last year totally screwed vs who was nominated. Some of these low tier teams get sympathy nods so they aren't left empty handed at the participation trophy ceremony.

[GroundandPound]

Last 24 Seasons:
Trinity 11 x Champion 8  x runner-up (19)
Amherst 6 x Champion 4 x runner-up (10)
Williams 5 x Champion 4 x runner-up (9)
Middlebury 5 x Champion 3 x runner-up (8)

[Trin9-0]

The only reason Fetter WON'T be NESCAC OPOTY by himself is because he racked up a bunch of stats running up the score...had Hartford State shown a bit more sportsmanship, perhaps all the other opposing HCOF's would have voted for Fetter instead of potentially splitting their votes...Fetter can thank HCOF Jeff for that (and throwing the ball at the Middlebury player at the end of that game).

Spencer Fetter's complete 4th quarter stats when he and Devanney were running-up the score and padding his stats:

Tufts: 0 of 1 for 0 yards
Colby: Did not play
Amherst: Did not play
Hamilton: 5 of 9 for 46 yards
Middlebury: 5 of 9 for 87 yards, 1 interception
Williams: Did not play
Bates: Did not play
Wesleyan: Did not play
Bowdoin: Did not play