FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[GroundandPound]

https://www.d3football.com/awards/all-region/2023/2023-d3football-all-region-1

Enidcott's DT Meropoulus is Region 1 Defensive player of year. Really?

In 11 games he had 44 Tackles, 4 sacks, 10 TFLs, 2 forced fumbles and 1 pass break up
https://www.ecgulls.com/sports/fball/2023-24/teams/endicott?view=lineup&r=0&pos=off

Middlebury's Tomas Kenary in 9 games: 46 tackles 11.5 sacks, 19.5 TFLs, 1 interception, 1 break up, 1 FF, 1 Fumb Rec, 1 block FG, 16 QBHs
https://athletics.middlebury.edu/sports/football/stats?path=football

The oenly explanation I can think of  is Region 1 did not want two players of the year from NESCAC since Fetter was offensive player of the year.
Some of these votes could arguably go either way, however, Kenary not getting R1 Defensive player of the year looks like a gross injustice, in my opinion.

[Pat Coleman]

Voters might also have considered that Endicott played three ranked teams this season.

[GroundandPound]

It also appears from looking at some of Endicott's highlight films that they played with a four man front.  Middlebury played with a three man front.   
If so, I suspect Kenary faced more double teams during the season than Endicott's DT.

[GroundandPound]

In addition to playing a four man front and facing fewer double teams, wouldn't two additional games to make plays balance off playing 3 ranked teams?
Unjustifiable and appalling.  If the stats were closer, it may be understandable, but they are not.

[Jonny Utah]

https://www.d3football.com/awards/all-region/2023/2023-d3football-all-region-1

Enidcott's DT Meropoulus is Region 1 Defensive player of year. Really?

In 11 games he had 44 Tackles, 4 sacks, 10 TFLs, 2 forced fumbles and 1 pass break up
https://www.ecgulls.com/sports/fball/2023-24/teams/endicott?view=lineup&r=0&pos=off

Middlebury's Tomas Kenary in 9 games: 46 tackles 11.5 sacks, 19.5 TFLs, 1 interception, 1 break up, 1 FF, 1 Fumb Rec, 1 block FG, 16 QBHs
https://athletics.middlebury.edu/sports/football/stats?path=football

The oenly explanation I can think of  is Region 1 did not want two players of the year from NESCAC since Fetter was offensive player of the year.
Some of these votes could arguably go either way, however, Kenary not getting R1 Defensive player of the year looks like a gross injustice, in my opinion.

Of the six regions, one of the regions had teams from the same conference have an OPY and DPY (WIAC in region 6) .  One of the regions had both OPY and DPY from the same team (Trinity in region 3).

[Pat Coleman]

"Appalling" seems excessive, but I welcome you to go through a two-week nomination process, contact 50-some schools multiple times, invite six conference offices to cross-check nominees against their all-conference teams, contact 50-some coaches to provide feedback on nominees, then cajole two SIDs into joining D3football.com staff in voting, then compile those ballots and assemble the results into a news release.

Once that's done, multiply it by six, because there are six regions.

Short version, it's a lot of work. You've made some assumptions here about double teams that may or may not be true, as well, and you've made some assumptions such as this one:

The oenly explanation I can think of  is Region 1 did not want two players of the year from NESCAC since Fetter was offensive player of the year.

The voters don't ever convene and decide on such a thing. The offensive player of the year and defensive player of the year are not considered at the same time.

[RedAndBlack]

Until the NESCAC plays out of conference where some of the star athletes can show just how good they are, there will be consistent snubs when it comes to regional awards. And "snubs" is probably the wrong word anyways. There are so many teams and great players that its impossible to truly rank the players into teams and OPTY. As for talent level, I can promise you that the top nescac athletes can absolutely compete nationally. Having coached in the now-CCC, MAC and NE10, we would have LOVED many of the athletes that chose to play 'CAC over our institutions. There have been some teams in this league that even with only 75 player rosters could have competed nationally. The 2006 Williams team comes to mind. Depth will always be the biggest issue in this league. The teams that historically struggle are the prime example. They all have players that could start anywhere, but after top talent and a few injuries, they are hopeless against healthier competition. 

[GroundandPound]

You made an assumption about ranked opponents being a significant factor.  And yes, to confirm more double teams one needs to watch game film.  Two extra games to make more plays indisputable.  Significant statistical difference - indisputable.

[MammothDad]

I am indeed a former player. I just finished my senior season at Middlebury. I realize the "I" and "we" pronouns probably sounded a little weird if you didn't have that piece of context. Anyway, I think the kids would be all for it. It definitely is something we've joked/complained about in the past. The Admins, not so much. Some of the more experienced posters on here have made the point that football is not necessarily encouraged, but more just tolerated by NESCAC school administrations. I think that's not too far from the truth, and our lack of playoff participation is evidence of that. I think the Admins are far and away the toughest obstacle here.

Personally, I would be willing to end the year on a loss after a conference championship if it meant a chance to win a national championship (however small that chance may be). And as I mentioned before, while that final loss might be at the hands of one of these lower-academic D3 powerhouses, it might be to a good school too. Travel is another obstacle, but my view is that if Middlebury can send its track team to San Diego or tennis teams to Florida (true examples), then it can send its football team down the East Coast or to the Midwest. I also don't think it would be out of the question for a NESCAC team to host an early round game, especially given the quality of the facilities at some of the schools.

Awesome season, MapleBBQChicken!

There is a poster on this site that predicted y'all over Trinity, GroundandPound.  He's got genius status with me, until he loses it.



I'm a little sweet for Middlebury FB as well, being that my son got his 1st NESCAC offer from them.

"I" and "we" are the least of the pronoun issues in the NESCAC.



If the players think going up to five more weeks with a 1 of 32 chance is better than a Bowl, then I support it.  Players first, being that my worries are how to keep up your studies.

The Admins grovel for money and I would bet the former athletes give more, per capita.  But that is just a blind hunch.  Always flex your desires when you write a check.  And don't write another one until they follow through on anything they previously agreed to.  It's your only power.

Great year and your team is the ONLY NESCAC FB Champion in 2023 in my book until Trinity paints a "Co" in front of that 2018 "championship" they tout!

[Pat Coleman]

You made an assumption about ranked opponents being a significant factor.  And yes, to confirm more double teams one needs to watch game film.  Two extra games to make more plays indisputable.  Significant statistical difference - indisputable.

Sure. But we've been doing this for a while, including when the NESCAC played just eight games. People understand how to calculate per-game stats.

[MammothDad]

The problem here is probably more than half of the Amherst College football team isn't getting into Amherst if they aren't playing football (or had parents who attended which could also change now). 

So the argument kind of has to start there.  Amherst is an "academic school" but the football roster doesn't really reflect the admissions standards of the school as a whole. Now the MIT football team could fit in well with your argument.  I don't think they mind playing in a conference that allows them to go to the playoffs. 

Also you know there are probably more Nescac/Ivy league grad public school teachers making the same $ as your phys ed teacher?  Not sure where you are getting the PE angle from. 

So the bottom line is you have to ask yourself how much do the colleges want to bend their admissions and financial aid.  Stanford, Vanderbilt and Boston College all decided to bend the admissions a lot and give out 75+ free rides a year.  The Ivy league schools decided to bend the admissions and financial aid a little, but not to the extend the other schools did.  Then you have Amherst and Williams who also bend the admissions and financial aid, but want to stay small.  Then you have MIT who doesn't bend at either end.

Oh goodness, don't start that touchy subject again.

I tried to understand the academic standards of the NESCAC and one insightful poster referred to it as "dark arts", joking to the mystery of it.

The consensus was that each school has its own differing academic standards so there is not a "level playing field", in regards to minimum standards established.  And that seems to set off one particular fanbase in defense.

So I try to steer clear of that.

What I can share, from the Amherst perspective are anecdotal facts.  I know a player who scored a 1480 on the SAT and he was told to leave it off???  I know the .500 might be north of that but I can promise you there are plenty of "front door" students with less.

But I do agree that there is a perception that athletes get in with less and that only makes sense to be competitive in sports.  It seems like a struggle at Amherst but let's hope this new President is more supportive of FB than the previous loon.  So far, he seems cool and I also think it fair to mention that very few Seniors and Super Seniors started this year.

MIT is the ONLY D3 school that has such ridiculous academic standards.  My son supposedly had an "offer" there but I trusted that as far as you could throw it.  And they ONLY have spring applications.  Amherst in the fall was as "sure" as it could get.

But look at all the rankings of academics for D3 FB and MIT is the ONLY one whose FB Players may be in line with the "Front Doors" and that's because they mostly cap out at 1600.



In fairness to Johns Hopkins, their coach told my son he needed a 1500 for them to talk to him.  He had that but JH seemed as miserable as MIT so I tried not to foster it.  That and JH does not play in a closed league like the NESCAC.

Not about the money ...

... I respect any and all in what they do in life, as long as they don't take my tax dollars doing it.  Any kid who has a passion to teach children is AWESOME!

My PE Jab was about an easy program of study.  I do not know of ANY NESCAC school offering a degree plan like this:

https://www.northcentralcollege.edu/program/exercise-science

But I take it back, if so.  I was an education major at a directional state school.  My 4 year Special Education Degree was a LOT easier than the undergrad BA prereqs and degree plan for the MBA I got from the very same school 10 years later, after changing my career from teaching.

"So the bottom line is you have to ask yourself how much do the colleges want to bend their admissions and financial aid."

<I agree wholeheartedly with you on this but got beat to hell for even suggesting that this could impact the results on the field as much as the hard work in the weight room and the genius of the Head Coach.  So please excuse me for not wanting to discuss further at this time.>

I honestly think Stanford and Notre Dame are the last of the D1s who don't take mirror foggers for FB.

Vanderbilt offered a kid at my son's HS and he was lazy and a poor student, from a non FB perspective.  But he could meet prop 48 standards (if still called that) so they were happy to offer him.

Don't know anything about BC but I'll trust you.

Take care and the Fenway idea came from the Ithaca vs. Cortland game in Yankee Stadium.  That's awesome.

Ithaca was interested in my son but Amherst was a better fit.  He has loved it in his years there!

[GroundandPound]

They also know how to ignore them as well.

[Pat Coleman]

They also know how to ignore them as well.

Yep, and to be clear, the nominations only include regular season statistics, so it is pretty level. The NESCAC is not the only place where schools might only play nine regular-season games.

[MammothDad]

The problem here is probably more than half of the Amherst College football team isn't getting into Amherst if they aren't playing football (or had parents who attended which could also change now). 

So the argument kind of has to start there.  Amherst is an "academic school" but the football roster doesn't really reflect the admissions standards of the school as a whole. Now the MIT football team could fit in well with your argument.  I don't think they mind playing in a conference that allows them to go to the playoffs. 

Also you know there are probably more Nescac/Ivy league grad public school teachers making the same $ as your phys ed teacher?  Not sure where you are getting the PE angle from. 

So the bottom line is you have to ask yourself how much do the colleges want to bend their admissions and financial aid.  Stanford, Vanderbilt and Boston College all decided to bend the admissions a lot and give out 75+ free rides a year.  The Ivy league schools decided to bend the admissions and financial aid a little, but not to the extend the other schools did.  Then you have Amherst and Williams who also bend the admissions and financial aid, but want to stay small.  Then you have MIT who doesn't bend at either end.

For what it's worth, let me add this wasted time for the good of the group.  It's something I looked up in the past but never shared.  But given your post, I figured I might as well put it out here in case anyone wants to research it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

https://interculturalinsights.com/nescac-schools-ranked-by-acceptance-rate/

#1: Connecticut College: Acceptance rate- 41%
Average SAT range: 1333-1476
Average ACT range: 20-33

#2: Trinity College: Acceptance rate- 38%
Average SAT range: 1333-1480
Average ACT range: 29-33

#3: Wesleyan University: Acceptance rate- 19%
Average SAT range: 1300-1510
Average ACT range: 31-35

#4: Bates College: Acceptance rate- 17%
Average SAT range: 1260-1470
Average ACT range: 30-34

#5: Middlebury College: Acceptance rate- 13%
Average SAT range: 1380-1530
Average ACT range: 32-34

#6: Hamilton College: Acceptance rate- 11.8%
Average SAT range: 1410-1550
Average ACT range: 33-35

#7: Colby College: Acceptance rate- 9%
Average SAT range: 1400-1530
Average ACT range: 32-35

#8: Tufts University: Acceptance rate- 9%
Average SAT range: 1440-1550
Average ACT range: 33-35

#9: Bowdoin College: Acceptance rate- 9%
Average SAT range: 1320-1520
Average ACT range: 30-34

#10: Amherst College: Acceptance rate- 9%
Average SAT range: 1440-1570
Average ACT range: 32-35

#11: Williams College: Acceptance rate- 9%
Average SAT range: 1460-1560
Average ACT range: 33-35

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges

#1  Williams College
#2  Amherst College
#9  Bowdoin College
#11  Middlebury College
#11  Wesleyan University
#16  Hamilton College
#24  Bates College
#25  Colby College
#39  Trinity College
#46  Connecticut College
* Tufts is not ranked with Liberal Arts Colleges

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
https://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/

10. Williams College
11. Amherst College
42. Wesleyan University
44. Bowdoin College
53. Middlebury College
55. Tufts University
64. Hamilton College
80. Trinity College (CT)
89. Colby College
127. Bates College

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
https://www.wsj.com/rankings/college-rankings/best-colleges-2024

8  Amherst College
31  Williams College
50  Colby College
73  Wesleyan University
88  Hamilton College
89  Bowdoin College
131  Middlebury College
191  Trinity College
225  Connecticut College
287  Tufts University

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/rankings/united-states/2019#!/length/-1/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats

22  Amherst College
23  Williams College
32  Tufts University
37  Middlebury College
44  Bowdoin College
46  Wesleyan University
67  Hamilton College
71  Colby College
77  Bates College
92  Connecticut College
111  Trinity College

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

https://www.reachhighscholars.org/college_endowments.html

         Endowment/Student ($)
               Endowment ($000)
                     # of Students
                                                        
Williams      2,085,448   4,170,895   2,000
Amherst         1,916,321   3,775,153   1,970
Bowdoin         1,530,460   2,719,628   1,777
Hamilton      699,645      1,399,289   2,000
Colby         598,923      1,257,738   2,100
Wesleyan      491,453      1,572,651   3,200
Middlebury      464,923      1,511,001   3,250
Trinity College      361,386      783,123      2,167
Connecticut College   237,590      434,553      1,829
Bates         233,008      466,016      2,000
Tufts         222,807      2,646,506   11,878

[Back2BackBantam]

They also know how to ignore them as well.

Yep, and to be clear, the nominations only include regular season statistics, so it is pretty level. The NESCAC is not the only place where schools might only play nine regular-season games.

I would also make the argument that on the defensive side of the ball, statistics don't always tell the entire story. For example, the best cornerbacks in any league will always have less INTs and PBUs because the man they are guarding is not thrown to as often. Obviously it is tough to argue against the number of sacks and TFLs Kenary put up this season, but since I have never seen the kid who won play, I can't argue against any selection, and definitely couldn't call it "appalling".