FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Jonny Utah]

They probably don't care but Union and Ithaca's coaches getting Ivy jobs over any NESCAC HCs could be something that rankles some feathers amongst the NESCAC presidents and other decision makers - if they spend so much time modeling themselves after the Ivy League, why don't the Ivy League ADs want their coaches?

Probably not though.

When you think about it both Nescac and Ivy league coaches rarely move on once they get an Ivy/Nescac job.  So they are similar in that regard.

[The Ghost of John Wesley]

The problem here is probably more than half of the Amherst College football team isn't getting into Amherst if they aren't playing football (or had parents who attended which could also change now). 

So the argument kind of has to start there.  Amherst is an "academic school" but the football roster doesn't really reflect the admissions standards of the school as a whole. Now the MIT football team could fit in well with your argument.  I don't think they mind playing in a conference that allows them to go to the playoffs. 

Also you know there are probably more Nescac/Ivy league grad public school teachers making the same $ as your phys ed teacher?  Not sure where you are getting the PE angle from. 

So the bottom line is you have to ask yourself how much do the colleges want to bend their admissions and financial aid.  Stanford, Vanderbilt and Boston College all decided to bend the admissions a lot and give out 75+ free rides a year.  The Ivy league schools decided to bend the admissions and financial aid a little, but not to the extend the other schools did.  Then you have Amherst and Williams who also bend the admissions and financial aid, but want to stay small.  Then you have MIT who doesn't bend at either end.

For what it's worth, let me add this wasted time for the good of the group.  It's something I looked up in the past but never shared.  But given your post, I figured I might as well put it out here in case anyone wants to research it.

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https://interculturalinsights.com/nescac-schools-ranked-by-acceptance-rate/

#1: Connecticut College: Acceptance rate- 41%
Average SAT range: 1333-1476
Average ACT range: 20-33

#2: Trinity College: Acceptance rate- 38%
Average SAT range: 1333-1480
Average ACT range: 29-33

#3: Wesleyan University: Acceptance rate- 19%
Average SAT range: 1300-1510
Average ACT range: 31-35

#4: Bates College: Acceptance rate- 17%
Average SAT range: 1260-1470
Average ACT range: 30-34

#5: Middlebury College: Acceptance rate- 13%
Average SAT range: 1380-1530
Average ACT range: 32-34

#6: Hamilton College: Acceptance rate- 11.8%
Average SAT range: 1410-1550
Average ACT range: 33-35

#7: Colby College: Acceptance rate- 9%
Average SAT range: 1400-1530
Average ACT range: 32-35

#8: Tufts University: Acceptance rate- 9%
Average SAT range: 1440-1550
Average ACT range: 33-35

#9: Bowdoin College: Acceptance rate- 9%
Average SAT range: 1320-1520
Average ACT range: 30-34

#10: Amherst College: Acceptance rate- 9%
Average SAT range: 1440-1570
Average ACT range: 32-35

#11: Williams College: Acceptance rate- 9%
Average SAT range: 1460-1560
Average ACT range: 33-35

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https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges

#1  Williams College
#2  Amherst College
#9  Bowdoin College
#11  Middlebury College
#11  Wesleyan University
#16  Hamilton College
#24  Bates College
#25  Colby College
#39  Trinity College
#46  Connecticut College
* Tufts is not ranked with Liberal Arts Colleges

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https://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/

10. Williams College
11. Amherst College
42. Wesleyan University
44. Bowdoin College
53. Middlebury College
55. Tufts University
64. Hamilton College
80. Trinity College (CT)
89. Colby College
127. Bates College

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https://www.wsj.com/rankings/college-rankings/best-colleges-2024

8  Amherst College
31  Williams College
50  Colby College
73  Wesleyan University
88  Hamilton College
89  Bowdoin College
131  Middlebury College
191  Trinity College
225  Connecticut College
287  Tufts University

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https://www.timeshighereducation.com/rankings/united-states/2019#!/length/-1/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats

22  Amherst College
23  Williams College
32  Tufts University
37  Middlebury College
44  Bowdoin College
46  Wesleyan University
67  Hamilton College
71  Colby College
77  Bates College
92  Connecticut College
111  Trinity College

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https://www.reachhighscholars.org/college_endowments.html

         Endowment/Student ($)
               Endowment ($000)
                     # of Students
                                                        
Williams      2,085,448   4,170,895   2,000
Amherst         1,916,321   3,775,153   1,970
Bowdoin         1,530,460   2,719,628   1,777
Hamilton      699,645      1,399,289   2,000
Colby         598,923      1,257,738   2,100
Wesleyan      491,453      1,572,651   3,200
Middlebury      464,923      1,511,001   3,250
Trinity College      361,386      783,123      2,167
Connecticut College   237,590      434,553      1,829
Bates         233,008      466,016      2,000
Tufts         222,807      2,646,506   11,878

I'm not familiar with Intercultural Insights, but that data appears to be out of date or otherwise off in some way. Wesleyan's acceptance rate is 14% (has flexed between 13.9-16% over the last few years).

Sources: US News & World Report; self-reported data

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/wesleyan-university-1424/applying#:~:text=Wesleyan%20University%20has%20an%20acceptance%20rate%20of%2014%25
https://wesleyanargus.com/2022/04/04/class-of-2026-admissions-results-universiy-sees-lowest-acceptance-rate-on-record/

[MammothDad]

I'm not familiar with Intercultural Insights, but that data appears to be out of date or otherwise off in some way. Wesleyan's acceptance rate is 14% (has flexed between 13.9-16% over the last few years).

Sources: US News & World Report; self-reported data

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/wesleyan-university-1424/applying#:~:text=Wesleyan%20University%20has%20an%20acceptance%20rate%20of%2014%25
https://wesleyanargus.com/2022/04/04/class-of-2026-admissions-results-universiy-sees-lowest-acceptance-rate-on-record/

okay.  I've always found acceptance rate the biggest 'bag measure schools do.  Why use a negative as a measure?

Average test scores, GPAs, professional accomplishments of past graduates, 10 year salary average, graduate level obtainment in 10 years, etc.

But for schools to promote themselves to get more to apply to have a lower % seems like a waste of resources.

I think the early admission thing is a stat that has yet to manifest.  Think about the bragging point of IF you apply here AND we accept you, you have to drop all other applications.  That truly shows the school to be the 1 and ONLY school they hope to attend.

Seems like a bragging point to me.  Like a % of all incoming freshmen applied early/exclusive.

These 2,000 student schools have classes of 500.  I bet they could get 60-70%, filling with the Ivy Plus schools rejections easy in the spring.

[BigKat]

Since Amherst's punter was not named first- or second-team all-conference, he wasn't eligible to even be nominated for All-Region.

Despite our efforts, as well, sometimes not all eligible players get nominated either. Perhaps if you're missing someone you expect to see, that's part of the issue.

Exactly, that's my point that he should have been all conf in the league. NBD, happy a bunch of nescac guys were recognized for all region even if a few weren't slam dunks.

[BigKat]

They probably don't care but Union and Ithaca's coaches getting Ivy jobs over any NESCAC HCs could be something that rankles some feathers amongst the NESCAC presidents and other decision makers - if they spend so much time modeling themselves after the Ivy League, why don't the Ivy League ADs want their coaches?

Probably not though.

I don't think this was any anti Nescac stance;both these guys had very recent Ivy coaching experience which was definitely part of the equation.

[GroundandPound]

Meropoulos from Endicott is a DE, as is Kenary.
By the way if one were an interior DT and not a DE
how would that change one's analysis of stats?
Also, another highlight film from Endicott shows a four man front.
Hmm 5 OL blocking 4 DL pass rush v 5 OL blocking 3 DL pass rush. Which DL faces more double teams on pass plays?

[Jonny Utah]

Meropoulos from Endicott is a DE, as is Kenary.
By the way if one were an interior DT and not a DE
how would that change one's analysis of stats?
Also, another highlight film from Endicott shows a four man front.
Hmm 5 OL blocking 4 DL pass rush v 5 OL blocking 3 DL pass rush. Which DL faces more double teams on pass plays?

Um, an odd front presents the opportunity for 5 rushers at a time.  Do you really think the Left Guard can just double out because it is a 3 man front? 

Either way pass protections can adjust and double team vs an even or an odd front the exact same.  Especially with the 20 personnel groupings you see in the Nescac these days.

[GroundandPound]

Can a 4 man front send 6?
Can a 4 man front send 5?
Or can only a 3 man front send 5?
If rushing a 4 man front can and is blocked as easily as a 3 man front all rushing why would any any team at any level ever use and rush all 4 in the 4 man front? Hmmmm.

[Jonny Utah]

Can a 4 man front send 6?
Can a 4 man front send 5?
Or can only a 3 man front send 5?
If rushing a 4 man front can and is blocked as easily as a 3 man front all rushing why would any any team at any level ever use and rush all 4 in the 4 man front? Hmmmm.

Have you seen the stunts and blitzes Middlebury used this year?  That's how odd fronts are set up.  505 with two OLBs as threats on every down.  more often than not the offensive guards picked up #21 with help from the H back. 

Bottom line is you can't say a DL is getting more double teams because they play in an odd front vs and even front. 

[GroundandPound]

I think I solved the riddle.
Region 1 must have been looking at
last year's stats for Endicotts D end.
He had 50 tackles in 2022 and a crushing 14 sacks. This year- only 4 sacks.
Definitely stats deserving of Region 1 defensive player of the year
if he had 14 sacks this year.  According to CCC their best defensive player of the year (last i checked dline is part of the defense) was a linebacker from I think Husson.

Are you suggesting Endicott did not blitz?

Are you suggesting Mibblebury blitzed more often than Endicott? I dont know if that is true.

At some Middlebury games they blitzed sparingly.  Tufts comes to mind as a game with very few blitzes.

[Jonny Utah]

I think I solved the riddle.
Region 1 must have been looking at
last year's stats for Endicotts D end.
He had 50 tackles in 2022 and a crushing 14 sacks. This year- only 4 sacks.
Definitely stats deserving of Region 1 defensive player of the year
if he had 14 sacks this year.  According to CCC their best defensive player of the year (last i checked dline is part of the defense) was a linebacker from I think Husson.

Are you suggesting Endicott did not blitz?

Are you suggesting Mibblebury blitzed more often than Endicott? I dont know if that is true.

At some Middlebury games they blitzed sparingly.  Tufts comes to mind as a game with very few blitzes.

I never noticed the Endicott DL at all.  We do know they played the top teams in the country tough (Cortland, H-S). 21 is a beast for middlebury.  I'm not gonna use stats to separate the two players as they both seem close enough.  If you want to make the case for 21, you gotta do better than 4 man fronts vs 3 man fronts and the double teams each face. 

[GroundandPound]

I think that is where we have different opinions.
I think 11.5 sacks v 4 sacks and 19 TFLs v 10 TFLs are not close.
If Endicott player had 8 or 9 sacks and 14-15 TFLs I would be as silent as a church mouse.
One variable that would likely change my opinion is if Endicott player had significantly more holding calls made against those blocking him than Kenary did or if doubled substantially more than Kenary.  Absent that proof, I believe Kenary earned DPOY recognition for region 1.

[Jonny Utah]

I think that is where we have different opinions.
I think 11.5 sacks v 4 sacks and 19 TFLs v 10 TFLs are not close.
If Endicott player had 8 or 9 sacks and 14-15 TFLs I would be as silent as a church mouse.
One variable that would likely change my opinion is if Endicott player had significantly more holding calls made against those blocking him than Kenary did or if doubled substantially more than Kenary.  Absent that proof, I believe Kenary earned DPOY recognition for region 1.

without watching film on both neither of us can comment on either of them.  #21 had 8 of his 11.5 sacks in 2 games.  Week 1 vs Amherst and Vs 0-9 Bates.  Again that doesn't mean much either, the Endicott kid put up some zeros as well.  But there are so many intangibles with dline that stats only take you so far. 

[GroundandPound]

Endicott's DL / Reg 1 DPOY
0 sacks v 0-10 Hilbert
1 sack 3-7 Nichols
1 sack v 3-7 Curry
1/2 sack v 3-7 St Lawrence
2.5 of his 4 sacks v teams w 9-21 record
0 sacks v 0-10 team
It appears he had 1.5 sacks v teams w winning records

[Jonny Utah]

Endicott's DL / Reg 1 DPOY
0 sacks v 0-10 Hilbert
1 sack 3-7 Nichols
1 sack v 3-7 Curry
1/2 sack v 3-7 St Lawrence
2.5 of his 4 sacks v teams w 9-21 record
0 sacks v 0-10 team
It appears he had 1.5 sacks v teams w winning records

No offense, but you showed your ignorance when you claimed an odd front has a greater chance of being double teamed vs an even front.  When you say stuff like that it shows you really don't know what you are talking about. 

But that doesn't matter either, you admit you never saw the Endicott kid play.  The people who vote on this or who provide info to those who do vote have.  That makes your opinions (and mine) pretty worthless.  And I actually saw the Endicott kid play twice this year (once live and once on film).  I saw #21 last year live.  I'll be honest, I don't even remember the kid from Endicott.  I have heard more of #21 from Middlebury.