FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[TrinCantReedGood]

first of all, my gpa is so low that im pretty much assured of batting higher than that. i have no idea what you are talking about with the IPOD's but obviously if some bowdoin dudes stole some then I apologize. Stealing is not cool.  It undermines the entire economy.  Anyway, the reason I was teasing about grammar was because people were trying to point out how smart they or their school were. Obviously no one cares about grammar and I was just joking. As for my name i don't think the apostrophe is the only correction.  The joke is that read is spelled wrong and that good is used because good is an adjective and not an adverb.  I honestly can't believe that you are pointing out the mistakes on my name which are designed to poke fun at Trinity.  Mindboggling. Oh and are we serious with calling me a loser? I mean really... loser? You're at your computer you have plenty of time to think of something better than that.  It's not like you're on the spot where you might be forgiven.  You actually took the time to capitalize it too.  Wow, loser... that cut me right to the bone... you Trinity guys are as tough on the postings as you are on the field.  Since no one else reads this stuff I'm going to have to take a break because I've found myself getting way too into football postings.  I already have like 5.  And why do you get better rankings as you post more.  Shouldn't it go down because you waste your life talking about how great a team you don't even play on is?  I can see how it is addicting though.

P.S. I heard on PTI they were talking about Trinity playing USC in a plus 1 game for the real national title... any thoughts?

P.P.S. Good points everyone on the non-college grads who are millionaires.  That is definitely the more common route to the top.

In all seriousness though... more power to Trinity.  I can't even get an undefeated season on NCAA 2006.  Although I think that's because Virginia Tech's running back refuses to get tackled even by linebacker who is in the zone.  What's up with that?

[bant551]

TrinCantReedGood: As a writer for a publicly circulated publication (even if the reading audience is infinitesimal), you should be more diplomatic when you make public comments.  I sincerely hope, for your sake, that your goal in life is NOT to become a professional sports writer.  A professional sports writer will have to write about athletes who went to schools that are ranked MUCH lower than Bowdoin... or even TRINITY for that matter.

EVEN IF you never write another sports-related article again for the rest of your life, you are likely to begin your life as a college graduate working for someone who went to a school that wasn't as highly regarded as Bowdoin.  In light of the fact that you mock Trinity students... TRINITY STUDENTS, who go to a school that is ranked in the top TWENTY FIVE liberal arts colleges in the nation, you might run into some trouble in your job interviews.

I am ranked in the top third of my class in law school.  If you were to look at the people with better GPAs, there sure as **it are people who went to schools that were not as prestigious as Trinity.  Certainly it would'nt be prudent to go up to them, and mock their undergraduate education, right?

By the way, TrinCantReedGood, that sort of elitist attitude should be reserved for Williams and Amhert.  We are posting in a NESCAC forum and everything you say about Trinity can be said about Bowdoin by people from those two schools.  If you are going to be the type of elitist little puke you come off as, you should transfer to one of those schools.  Then noone in the league could say the same things about Bowdoin that you are saying about Trinity.

[Knightstalker]

Mr. Barisons' opinion is one of....well.....ONE!  I'am happy he wrote that letter, because it probably did something for him...but it is a cheap shot at a solid program, the admissions department, and his "beloved" alma mater.  You know the saying..."opinions are like ***holes, everyone has one", well that just about sums up your post Speedy.

DB8-0, I learned that one from my Chief in bootcamp, except the Navy version has this tacked onto the end: "and they all stink!"

[saul]

now what's all this about me not offering any evidence that trinity has lowest academic standards within nescac football.
i will restate for the mouth-breathing trinity posters again. i cited 3 examples:
1) lowest nescac median sats ( barron's)
2) lowest nescac ranking ( us world and news report )
3) lowest nescac selectivity rate --not even in top 100 nationwide for all schools. ( usw&nr)....laughable.


that's pretty hard evidence that trinity is butt-bottom last academically in this league. the trinity situation presents both a problem and an opportunity for a fresh approach to league admissions standards. trinity has disgraced itself and the league through its violations of the spirit of nescac mission statement. as a nescac athlete myself i am ashamed that trinity is a part of nescac. trinity is ( was ) honor-bound by the nescac mission statement ( which i posted earlier ). it's one thing for an athlete to make ill-advised, morally-compromised decisions in an effort to gain an advantage on the playing field but when an institution, one supposedly committed to the pursuit of academic excellence as the m.s. calls for, seeks to leverage its low academic standards to develop a dominant athletic program, then the situation poses a threat to league unity and harmony. trinity, itself, is in turmoil over its poor peer academic standing and the shame spiral many there feel at being so academically inferior to their nescac brethren has become quite public. in complete disgust, some  trinity alums are calling for the for severe athletic reform at trinity while, sadly, others feel the only solution is terminating the football program. the trinity football program is such a concern across the  league that certain factions here at amherst claim that the role ( read: presence) of  athletics in nescac needs to be reassessed entirely.

in response to that concern i propose that an league academic index be utilized in the future to insure the that embarrassments like trinity's football program don't go unchecked in the future and to head off efforts by certain factions within academia to severly limit the stature and scope of nescac athletics. to that end, i propose that nescac institute a floor index (minimum academic s.a.t. and g.p.a. standards)  for all freshmen and transfer student-athletes applying to nescac schools. ( for bowdoin which, I hear, doesn't require s.a.t.s something would have to be worked out ). the ivy league utilizes such an index with good success and there's no reason why nescac shouldn't as well. the difference is that my proposal is a more concrete metric and would have better oversight ( a clearinghouse would be established to review data and insure compliance). through this measure economies of scale are acheived, transparancy will be attained, and an atmosphere of trust will be engendered. the index is simpler and less byzantine than the ivy counterpart and can't be massaged-- as the ivy version can. its a better mousetrap with less bells and whistles but above all it would insure that no school's standards could be dropped so low as to acheive an unfair advantage on the playing field. we all know a league standard is long overdue and would go a long way to resurrecting league harmony and mutual respect. it would, above all, be good medicine for a place like trinity that strays from a league mission statement by which all members are presently honor bound.

Lastly from the 10/25/5 trinity student paper op page, here's more insight into the scope of trinity's inferiority complex:

"......Again, I offer an apology to Ericson, for he has our best interests at heart. This letter just represents an unsettling theme - a theme in which Trinity College as an institution acts like a creepy dude at the beach with a cucumber in his speedo. Bear with me as I continue that metaphor, a la the oversexed Tripod Features or the "AT" column. Trinity wants to compete with the porn stars of the NESCAC (Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin) but simply can't. We just don't have the magnificent endowment (har-har) that these schools possess. But we can't stop complaining. This is what bugs me. This is why I'm cranky. I'm going to come out and say it: Trinity College has penis envy. Care to disagree? Our mascot, the Bantam, is defined as a small, angry cock. Disquieting.

Perhaps, somewhere, God is laughing at us. " 
i know i am, and so is the rest of the league.

[speedy]

Mr. Barisons' opinion is one of....well.....ONE!  I'am happy he wrote that letter, because it probably did something for him...but it is a cheap shot at a solid program, the admissions department, and his "beloved" alma mater.  .

Mr. Barison's opinion is apparently shared by other Trinity alums. There is a a similar letter in today's student paper that says similar things. But I won't post it since you Trinity guys are just too easy to crank up. . .  

[ktroutvon]

What do you do with legacies and large parental donors in your system (gpa floor index)?  I know people at almost every NESCAC and Ivy who fall into that category.  Also what about the few suspect students that do a PG year at Deerfield, PE, etc. to boost their stats? 

Isn't there something inherently wrong with viewing the world from a statistical order?  Peter Bernstein, a fairly well known economist and expert on risk management even comes to that conclusion in a book he wrote about the history of mathematical thought.  Doesn't the fact that NESCAC schools, for the most part (I realize Tufts and Weselyan have some graduate programs) are liberal arts colleges? 

Also, I know for a fact that Williams has gotten pretty retarded kids into their school who play soccer.  This comes from a source inside the program.   

[nescac1]

In the same issue of the Trinity paper, there was an outstanding article defending the program written by a Trinity football player, I suggest those bashing Trinity on this thread read it.  Needless to say, any problems that Trinity has are most definitely not attributable to the football program.  The only way to make that causal link is to compare Trinity's academic reputation, etc. during the late 90's / early part of this decade, when football was mediocre, to its status in the early 90's and today, when football is/was dominant.  I don't believe that there is any material difference among the three time periods. 

[Trin9-0]

nescac1: Thanks for bringing that article to our attention. It was very well written and articulated many of the points that myself and the other Trinity supporters have been saying for a while. The most relevant argument centers around the reasons why Trinity has fallen in the US News and World Report Rankings (none of which are related to the admission of football players). To cut out the middle-man have pasted it below (sorry if it's too much to read).


Gregory Barison '74 posed a question in the previous edition of the Tripod: "What effect would the abolition of football have on our applicant pool, student body qualification and campus life?" As a student athlete, I am well-equipped to provide an answer.

Most likely, we would still be ranked lowest amongst NESCAC schools, we would still be left with the financial burden of years past, and we would still have to enroll abnormally large classes. In addition, academically-minded students like myself would not be able to pursue the sport that they enjoy. Certain alumni and parents have attributed Trinity's declining rank in U.S. News and World Report to the Trinity College football program. Unfortunately, the answer is not that simple, nor is blame so easily placed.

Perhaps said best by Trinity Parent Robert Ericson, the U.S. News and World Report Ranking "provide [Trinity] valuable insight, some solid metrics and a sense of its standing in present day academia." As an institution, we should be concerned with Trinity's reputation and standing compared to our NESCAC counterparts, and we should take proactive action to remedy the problems. That said, before casting blame or taking action, careful attention should be paid to the roots of our decline and what would be an effective response.

In the 2006 U.S. News and World Report, Trinity declined in four categories: Faculty Resources, Student Selectivity, Financial Resources and Alumni Giving. Our falling in each of these categories has not been due to the actions of the football program or the priorities of President Jones, who has spearheaded the campaign to bring back Trinity's lost stature. In short, Trinity's current decline is the direct result of previous administrations' fiscal irresponsibility and inept oversight by members of the college and alumni. As a result, we are faced with an uphill battle on a limited budget.

Trinity's present financial predicament has forced the College to make a number of sacrifices, all which have negatively effected our national standing as a result. The U.S. News and World Report Ranking are based upon a number of factors, one of which is teacher salaries. As a result of the present financial crunch, Trinity's faculty has agreed to a pay freeze in the hopes of allowing our limited amount of capital to be put back towards the students - a step which truly shows our faculty's commitment to the student body and the school. Our student selectivity has also been negatively influenced by our fiscal burdens. Trinity is forced to enroll larger numbers of students in the hopes of increasing capital. By enrolling larger classes of students, our acceptance rate has increased relative to other NESCACs.
In order to cure the troubles within Trinity, drastic actions do need to be taken. Alumni Giving, while not sufficient to raise Trinity's ranking, is nonetheless a necessary ingredient in improving the school's reputation. Trinity's Financial Resources have been the focal point of the college's troubles. As a result of the poor (or non-existent) oversight of the college's finances in previous years, all other NESCACs far surpass Trinity in the size of their endowment. Consequently, the current administration is compensating for the irresponsible habits of former Trinity leaders.

I fail to recognize how students on the football team have contributed to the falling ranking, or how the elimination of the program would elevate our academic standing to that of other NESCAC institutions. The Trinity College football program is composed of 75 young men who truly embody what it is to be a collegiate student-athlete in America today. Despite what it seems, many parents, alumni and members of the college think, we are students, first and foremost. Football is simply our chosen extra-curricular outlet. Every day, just like other students on campus, we wake up, go to class, complete our assignments, and excel academically. The only difference is, as student-athletes we have chosen to give a great deal of our time and effort to the sport of football; this is no different from a music program, language club, or any number of other available activities on campus.

Contradictory to commonly held sentiment, playing football does not make us unqualified students, nor does it define who we are as individuals. I find it disappointing that a school such as Trinity, which prides itself on openness and diversity, cannot look beyond the "dumb jock" stereotype and see the hard-working student-athletes who have done everything their college has asked of them and more.

If we are looking for somewhere to place blame for the shortcomings of Trinity's status in the NESCAC, the students who have chosen to be members of the football program are not the logical target. While it may be gratifying to place blame, I believe it is time to move beyond casting stones and search out the most efficient means to bringing Trinity to its rightful place among NESCAC institutions.

Tim Coughlin '06


(By the way Coughlin was a 2004 academic All-NESCAC selection.)

[bant551]

The real embarassment to the NESCAC is the attitude held by people like Saul and TrinCantReedGood.  Is it really that embarassing to play sports against a school that is ranked lower than yours, but is considered elite nonetheless?

Saul and TrinCant, how do you treat the janitors in your dorms that clean up the messes that you make?  They probably didn't go to college... so how would you go about mocking their intelligence TrinCant?  If you have no problem insulting Trinity graduates by saying that they aren't proficient readers (top 25 liberal arts school in the country mind you), what could you POSSIBLY say to people that didn't even go to college?

Its just a shame that they cannot teach class, respect for others, and diplomacy over there at Bowdoin.  You do realize, TrinCant, that there are ways to make your argument which would be more befitting of a writer for one of your school's publications, don't you?

[patfan]

This whole discussion is rediculous....I've been reading this stuff all year and its starting to get to me. Can we stop talking about academic standards and start talking about football. Who cares if Trinity's avg SAT scores might be a few points lower then other schools. Did anyone complain this much when Williams was running the table a few years back? I want to know how Amherst can beat Trinity this weekend so my boy up in Waterville can get a piece of the title. If Colby Bowdoin and Amherst all win this weekend next weekends Colby Bowdoin game could actually have some significance for once. After all Bowdoin hasn't exactly gone into the game with any sort of a record in the past few years.

[Knightstalker]

This whole discussion is rediculous....

I am amazed at the number of people posting on the NESCAC board that can't spell ridiculous.  The NESCAC is a conference of liberal arts schools, I could understand mispelling words from an engineering school or an A&M type of school.  When people from the supposedly "Academically Elite" conference are ripping on other schools because of academic standards (always the last line of defense when justifying why a school is better than theirs or why their school sucks) they should spell properly or at least be smart enough to type in word and use spell check.

Patfan, this is not aimed at you, you just happened to mispell the word that a couple of our resident elitists have mispelled also.

[Trin9-0]

stalker: I hope you don't consider us all elitist, and I'm sure most gramatical errors are a product of people rushing to get their 2 cents in during a break at work or school. As long as the I can get the idea of what the person is trying to say I don't see the big deal. Though you're right it is suprising and somewhat comical that those who spend so much time arguing about academics continually make the same errors while writing.

patfan: It's my understanding that people did complain when Williams was dominating. However, there was no forum for people to publicly complain. Also most of the complaints were coming from Williams people. I agree with you though... more football please! As for the big game:

Amherst does have a shot at taking down the Bants if a few things happen.

First they need to slow the Trinity run game. The Jeffs have a great defense especially against the run. They need to commit to defending the run with 8 defenders and make Trinity beat them throwing the ball.

Second they need to protect the ball. Trinity thrives off of turnovers and they have forced an astounding 23 so far this season! They must also force a few turnovers. I don't think anyone in this league can put together a long scoring drive against Trinity. They need to create turnovers and give their offense a short field to work with... remember a fieldgoal could very well determine this game.

Which brings me to the final component neccessary for Amherst to pull the upset... the kicking game. Trinity is in the top 3 in every statistical special teams category. Amhert has good kicking teams as well, but in a low scoring game field position is critical. They must be sound, especially on the kick coverage teams for a chance to win.

[Knightstalker]

Trin8-0, there are only a couple of people that I consider elitist and they probably know who they are.  There are also a couple from the basketball boards that don't post here.  For the most part I have found the NESCAC posters like most of the others, people that just want to talk about the sports they love and have some fun along the way.

[speedy]

. . . Did anyone complain this much when Williams was running the table a few years back?  . .

Yes -- there were many complaints - both at Williams and throughout the NESCAC. The result was that various restrictions were placed on the number of "tipped" football recruits per year (15, I think) and the number of roster spots per school (75). I suspect that there will be more reforms in the future as long as the perception continues that the league is not competitively balanced.

[Roonyhufsfarts]

But what does additinal restrictions mean for the league speedy?  It seems you and people of your mindset are upset their is a imbalance in the cometition in the NESCAC.  Fair enough....I would say look at every other football conference in the nation and you will see discrepencies in success across the board D-I to D-III that fluctuate perhaps not every year, but in a cyclical fashion (hell, Vanderbilt is doin decent this year).  BUT, we are the NESCAC and we are different, and I dont mean that in a snide way.  We do hold ourselves to a different standard and that is one of the reasons why it is such a great league, and one of the reasons I came a long distance to play in it.

That said, how far do we go in maintaining that balance before we are just hurting the league overall.  Would it be better to have 9 teams that are as good as the present Wes Tech and Hammy High year in an year out?  Would alumni want to come and watch what amounted to two good to average highschool quality teams duke it out in a sloppy and poorly executed game?  Sure its "college" football, but it would be awful college football.  As it is now, we are talking on this post board about whether or not trinity (and other teams from other schools in the past) would be successful on the national stage.  If more restrictions came down, we would know the future answer for sure....NO. 


Competition is the essence of Football.  To try to downgrade the NESCAC even more to attain parity would be the athletic equiveant of Communism, and we all know Communism is a big ol **** sandwich (thats about the best way to describe it in my opinion), not to mention it doesnt work.

It relies on false rhetoric, and misplaced idealism to support itself when the results are obviously disasterous.  I know, I am being totally over dramitic, but there is some truth behind this silliness.  Cant you guys see a NESCAC that has crap football, and when the alumni complain the presidents and ADs have to spew some crap about how, "Here in the NESCAC we want to mae sure football isnt given any more attention than our other sports.  THis way we can ensure that our academic standards are never comprimised by a teams desire to win and parity in the league is maintained."

Football is about competition, on and off the field.  If everyone else in the league is upset that Trinity is winning all the games why dont your put some pressure on your coach to work harder to recruit kids that are smart, good football players?  And when they get there, get a coach to work himself and the players HARD, and not treat it like a chill little ho hum NESCAC program.  If you do that, then you will have a team built around the priciples of Trinity, and then you will beat them.