FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[stumpy]

The number of posts someone submits is a direct function of their coolness.   Something to think about.  It appears trinity supporters are not cool;  no surprise.  I am stumpy.

[Pat Coleman]

Ahem.

Your pathetic attempts to make us believe you are from Trinity are just sad, Trin4eva. Why would you be a Trinity person if you are posting from Colby College?

Give it up. That's so lame.

[Pat Coleman]

I am stumpy.

Are you? Because it looks like you're the same person as "Trin4eva" with a different e-mail address.

[Jonny Utah]

Pat, Ill give trin4va the benefit of the doubt here only because I think it was a joke.  I had a small laugh reading that post.

If he seriously thought people would think he was from trinity he should be ashamed.

[ktroutvon]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  The biggest problem Trinity has had in the last decade as an institution is Dick Hersh.  I have dealt with him personally and the guy is a joke who doesn't belong in an institution of higher learning.  Frankly, he makes some of the old headmasters at Deerfield look like the nice grandmother everyone has. 

Everyone seems to forget that Hamilton is in the NESCAC.

[formerbant10]

It must be pretty boring to be up in Maine this time of year, you guys have all this time to set up different emails in an attempt to bash Trinity.  As Pat said, it's pathetic.  Go run along and support the real team at Bowdoin, the Women's Basketball Program.

Ktroutvon,  I agree with you about Dick.  But it seems a bigger problem was the spending spree Evan Dobelle went on before he jumped ship.  I've heard about how great a guy he is and how he supported all the athletic teams, but Trinity is now suffering from all of the purchases he made.  It's too bad, b/c Trinity is a great place to spend four years. 

[Trin9-0]

frank & johnny: I agree with both of your arguments to an extent. Each member NESCAC shcool has the right to leave the league if it wishes, but as speedy said, no one has any interest in leaving. If a school does wish to stay it must abide by all the rules of the league. What I would like to see happen is some changes to the rules in regards to football. These changes would actually make football more closely resemble the other NESCAC sports. For example: Why not play out of conference games? Why not be eligible for the division III playoffs? Why not extend the season by 1 or 2 games? Other NESCAC sports teams are given these opportunities; football should be no different.

I love the NESCAC. It is a great league with fantastic schools, wonderful traditions and even better rivalries. However, let's shed some of that elitist attitue and open ourselves up to the rest of the D3 football world. To me, there doesn't seem like any reason not to.

Everyone seems to forget that Hamilton is in the NESCAC.

We didn't forget... we just don't like to admit it. 

WESTECH: I'll take you up on that beer. Come to the Trin-Wes game on the 12th. We'll be at the tailgate under the big tent that says "What game?" on it.

[ktroutvon]

My point with the Hamilton reference was simply that there isn't even a correlation (let alone any proof of causation) between academic standards and quality of football programs in the NESCAC universe. 

I have a different view of this for the entire D3 landscape that I won't get into. 

NESCAC schools clearly like their world and believe it does something for the member institutions (otherwise no one could explain the UAA where I have some decent inside knowledge into U of R's thougts on this).  However, if a NESCAC member accepts this, then they should severely restrict any talk of any of their member school's strength on a national level.  That is the tradeoff.  When I hear people here speaking of Trinity as a championship contender I think "let them eat cake".

[First6Ws]

ktroutvon, if you're referring to a national championship, I haven't heard anybody mention Trinity as challenging Linfield or Mount Union, but I think a consistently undefeated NESCAC program can hang with its fair share of teams in the bottom half of the top 25. 

Going back to the "weak conference doesn't deserve a national ranking" argument that others have brought up, I don't buy it.  I played on a USA Today nationally-ranked high school team from Connecticut, not exactly a haven for high school football.  I think there are a lot of parallels between Trinity and that team.  For example, we never played anyone who played anybody else out of state, much like Trinity doesn't play anyone who plays outside the conference.

Also, though I haven't seen Amherst in action this year, I find it hard to believe that they have any speed advantage over the Bants.

I too found Trin4eva's post entertaining

[ktroutvon]

It's not soo much as a weak conference doesn't deserve a national ranking is that there is no measuring stick.  What I was saying is that NESCAC schools have chosen to insulate themselves from the rest of D3 in football.  They cannot then turn around and ask for or demand national recognition.  Even if a team merits such recognition. Its hypocritical.   

This is coming from someone with a BA from a shcool that itself doesn't schedule much out of its area (though I believe that to be more of a budget issue than competitive/football decision).

[First6Ws]

ktroutvon, i like your point on the insulation of the league.  Essentially, if NESCAC doesn't care about playing on a national scale (as every other d3 team aspires to), we shouldn't care about being ranked on a national scale.  I can buy that, since, admittedly, a NESCAC championship means most to me as an alum. 

[Roonyhufsfarts]

ktroutvon: just because there is no meauring stick does not mean the great NESCAC teams that come and go would not be able to compete.  And while the schools and prezs have chosen to insulate the league, we players can banter (pun intented) on and on about whether or not we could be successful in the playoffs.

Sure, we NESCACs cant DEMAND recognition, but isnt it the job of the voteres to be educated about the best 25 teams in D-III, regardless of the conference?  I mean, Trinity is on the list, just not in the top 25 so they are at least gettting some attention.  Its quite an accomplishment to be even in the pole despite our insulated nature.   Like I said in a previous post, it is easier to just say, "they dont play out of conference, they dont get ranked in the top 25."  Hey, if I was a voter I probably would have the EXACT same attitude.  Its not like their is a BCS game riding on it.

Moral of the story: Trinity most likely could beat a good number of teams in the lower 25, could be competitive with the mid section, and most likely loose to the top teams.  Will we ever know...nope.  Is it really important....nope.  Is this post getting too long....yes

[bant551]

Unfortunately, I'd have to agree that since Trinity doesn't allow its team to go to the playoffs (in the sense that they are part of the league and have a say in those decisions), it is only fair that playoff-league teams get the benefit of the doubt.

It is still possible, though, that they can get in if some of the teams on the fringe end up losing a game or two.

[ktroutvon]

I'm not trying to take on the role of the rest of DIII here, but:

A.  Why should voters include a conference that closes its walls to everyone else?  A voter cannot do his "job" of evaluating a school in a conference that has never played outside competition. 

B.  While I don't expect that someone would pick a DIII school based on football, if it was that important why choose to go to a NESCAC school knowing the remifications of that decision? Hence the reference to French royalty.
(Before I get indundated with NESCAC PR, I spent time at a boarding school and am well versed in the virtues of a NESCAC education.  I think they are great schools!)
--You should be happy with the NESCAC championship. 

As for Trinity beating a top 15-20 program, its nto very bold to make a proclimation that cannot be proven or disproven.  Even less so do it on a board where you are preaching to the choir.  Why not do all the talk about Trinity on the general boards or in other conference boards?  Even if the responses will be difficult to translate.

[bant551]

Ktroutvon:  unfortunately, noone else would want to hear anything about the NESCAC.  And due to the fact that it is the NESCAC's decision not to join the playoff-eligible leagues, it is only the fault of the NESCAC itself that noone cares.

Imagine the response if someone said that Trinity could compete with playoff teams on a general board.  It would not be pretty.