FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[bant551]

chessdoc, I think you are an awesome guy and I hope your boy wins a championship at whatever school he attends (although it would be tough, because I can never root against the Bants).  I also hope that people don't go out of their way to undermine his team if they start dominating the league while he is there!  Williams, Amherst (in the past), and now Trinity have had to deal with this internal uproar, not because anything has changed, but because they are now dominating their sport.  If the same academic standards were in place, but Trinity went 4-4 the next five years, guess what?  No article, noone cares.

I played on really, really marginal Trinity teams my first two years there.  It was one of those "some years they have a player or two that can give 'em a shot at winning the league (like all the way back in 19-ninety-mother-f'n 3... 1993!!!)" but in most other years, "they are slightly above-average" schools.  Priore came in and used the same academic standards they've always had (yes, including those rough 5-3, 4-4 and 4-4 seasons through my junior year), but worked his tail off (and essentially made his graduate assistants full-time 24/7 workers), and started recruiting nationally. 

Simply stated, he went far above and beyond what the other schools in the league did regarding national recruitment (while not changing a thing about academic standards, which were the same in the previous average years before his system started dominating).

If Priore were the Trinity coach when I was looking at colleges back in 1998-99, there is NO WAY he'd have taken me.  Not because I was so bad I couldn't find a spot to play in the NESCAC (I eventually ended up starting for Priore), but just because unlike EVERY OTHER SCHOOL IN THE LEAGUE, Priore would have found some kid from Texas or California with the same academic credentials (GPA/SATs) who was 6'6" and 280 pounds lean (not by cheating mind you, UNLESS WORKING HARDER THAN YOUR FELLOW NESCAC COACHES IS "cheating").

Look, the guy didn't belong in the NESCAC, but not because he broke any rules or cheated.  He didn't belong in the NESCAC because he clearly has the ability to be a D-I coach (and did the same things he would do as if here were such a D-I coach -- you know -- like actually recruit kids that didn't grow up in the outer-limits of Boston. etc.).

Even though I am one of those "stoopid" Trinity football players, I am currently preparing for the bar exam on Long Island.  I hope to see Priore's team upset Hofstra (even though I'm a big Pride fan), because I know how great of a coach he is, and he gave me a chance.

But all this whining and complaining just makes me sick.  I had one 5-3, and two 4-4 seasons before the 7-1 season (I've earned my J.D. since Trinity last lost a football game).  That 7-1 season, and the subsequent 8-0 compaigns, were not a result of cheating or letting half-wits into the school.  The talent level got a little higher when Priore stoped the system of settling for the New England kids who didn't get into Williams or Amherst, and started recruiting nationally... but these weren't superstars.  They were relatively intelligent, workhorse-types on teams that went to the State finals in Texas or California (which is far more bigtime than the NESCAC).

You find me something wrong with spending more time and effort on recruiting nationally, and I'll give you a picture of my good friend George Washington on the cover of a one dollar bill.

People simply fail to grasp the fact that there are certain people in this world who are EXTREMELY GOOD AT THEIR JOBS (like Priore).  They not only do better doing the same old stuff the other coaches do, they go above and beyond in terms of spending time recruiting... and, um.... his offensive track record in both the NESCAC and O-Coordinator in the Ivy League is unimpeachable.  Wherever he has had control over an offense, eventually the school's records are SMASHED.

Some people are just great at what they do, period.  Dick (head) Farley was a great football coach... no doubt about it.  But his time passed, and a new boss came to town.  After getting whipped by Head THREE TIMES IN A ROW (my sophmore, iunior, and senior years), Priore finally beat Head.  I lived vicariously though it.  Listening to Trinity beat Williams on Gamecast felt like I was actually a part of it.  I just hated the condescending way I was treated by Williams so much it enraged me.  Funny thing is, I loved visiting Williams, love the campus, visited my friend (my year -- played football) and my younger brother who went there a million times.  I just f'in HATED WILLIAMS FOOTBALL!!!

Dick "head" either quit because he wanted to retire, or he realized that he wasn't going to win games anymore with a coach in the same league who treated it like a real football team, and not some sort of flag football league.

Prediction:  Everything I say will eventually be proven true.  There are going to be a few rough years at first at Stony Brook for Priore (lost 55-0 last year in a thunderstorm to Hofstra, who they open up against)... but HE WILL MAKE THEM A VERY GOOD I-AA SCHOLARSHIP TEAM.

The guy is an AMAZING COACH, who set up an AMAZING SYSTEM that far surpassed the (1) recruiting base; and (2) the offensive schemes --  of every other team in the league.  Period.  Cry all you want, but thats how greatness is accomplished.

I never want the Bants to lose, but chessdoc is a great guy and I hope his own kicks some a$$ up there (kind of like how I'm a Hofstra grad student but would LOVE to see Stony Brook upset the Pride).

All I can say is that I didn't "make the biggest mistake of my life" by choosing Trinity over Williams.  I am very happy right now, helping my fellow -- purportedly half-wit --  former teamates who were younger than me prepare for law school, and just enjoying the winning streak.

Also, sometimes I wonder (admittedly from my lefter-than-Lenin outlook), why the best schools in the county would find it so ABHORRENT that SOME of their students aren't absolute rocket scientists.  God forbid that someone who wasn't born brilliant actually gets the education that naturally-born brilliant people get the opportunity to enjoy.  You can't have regular human beings attend your schools?  Is it that offensive to you?

Look, the GPA thing I understand (even a "dumb" high school kid can get B+'s in high school if they hit the books), but the whole SAT thing is troublesome for me.  Yes, you want standards as an elite academic institutional.  But no, you don't have to act like the apocolypse is coming because some football player who otherwise would never have had the chance to receive the education you are is suddenly exposed to a wonderful educational opportunity.

But whatever, let the elitism roll.  Chessdoc, I wish the best for you and yours, you are a good man, only wish your boy was going to Hartford!

[chessdoc]

thanks, my son has taught me a bit about courage over the last 4 years coming back from a knee and ruptured spleenere , he endured the death of a sib early on. as a doc there is more out there than football. the best thing about nescac after searching far and wide is the people there. from what we can best see the expierence lies in campus and on the field. understaned the noise is fun as long as its not mean spirited. When it gets caddy it undermines the greatness. remember anyone that gets to be associated with these people has an edge in life so grasp it and be grateful. we all are. If the kid never sees the field he already is a leg up. As for priore as a coincidence, my son got into s.b with academic money , he could of walked on but stepping up increases the pressure like merton said its not for everyone. He knows a kid that just got in and priore recruited. Bet on that guy, i would and this kid is an overachiever for sure.As for us we got to go buy some snow gear, he just bought his cleats and asked a bunch of snow questions.He leaves for kutshurs as a counelor in the weight room then off to school. one down 3 to go, and happy to watch whether heplays or not. remember its a privilige.Also the message board had everything to do with our choice of leagues.and pat is a standup guy who takes time with people when he doesnt have to. thanks pat

[Nescacfan05]

Priore is a great coach, but admissions has dipped for him becuase he wanted it and got it and I wont't fault the guy for it we all would like those guys, and when he lefted they have begun to tighten up again. Look at the transfers that have gottten in over the years. Leo had a 1.7 as a transfer comming from colgate.....the LB from Uconn under a 1.o, and the QB from Virgina was on academic probation when he got there and those are 3 key players as well as a kid to transfer in from houston 8 days before the start of the season how does that work. Every school dips, but TrinTrin can dip to get kids that are not on the radar of any NESCAC school. Yes theri are some crossover kids, but not many.  I don't doubt the work he puts in, but to say Trinity recruits are as goo academically as the other NESCACs is ludriciris. Every admit to every school is shared by each others admissions departments, that is why people know who got in where, that is why admissions sees a problem. Every school recruits nationally, trinity didn't set any standard there, they can get more kids well below the margin than most. We are not talking half wits, but they do get a couple below 1000 SAT, and far more than anyone else below 1200...they are not dumb kids, but certainly not the profile of the nescac

Don't get me wrong if any coach could recruit those same kids they would, second great coaching, plus great talent = 30+ wins, but to say Trin is recruiting the same kids is not accurate.

[chessdoc]

listen, i have no skin in the trinity game,and god knows i hope they do not get some kid that injures my son one day, but would other schools not do better finding a way to beat them, them crying about them. As for trinity maybe a step up in conferance might be an ultimate answer, but frommy best quess its just good old competition which is what usa is based on. so keep the debate up but far worse recruiting issues exist god knows, and like i said if these kids graduated tehn trinity did them a solid, small price to pay for the others .

[Trin9-0]

I agree with Pat that the email proves nothing. The admissions department accepts students, not the athletic department.

We continue to have the same discussion. But I'm a sucker so here we go again...

Trinity as a school has lower accademic standards than most NESCAC schools, thus it can afford to accept athletes with lower scores than other league schools without altering its overall ranking.

Trinity runs a clean football program. Has it benefited from the ability to recruit players that other schools may not have been able to accept? Yes. But that is merely one of the reasons for the success of the Bants. Hard work and excellent coaching has been far more important factors over the past 6 years.

No NESCAC or NCAA rules have ever been broken, and yes chessdoc, the Trinity football players do graduate.

Good work FOOTB@11F@N for stirring the pot, I love a good debate. However, I agree with Bant511 in that this is just another case of sour grapes.

[chessdoc]

bant u misunderstood me, i know they graduate thats the point. If they take them in, improvem and win they are doing a great job for mankind, im on your side. I have no problem with competition its great for everyone. We did not look at trinity because of he coaching transition no slap to the school, actually im quite impressed and my daugther is looking at it now, she does not want togo with her brother. any color on the girls soccer program.

[bant551]

Chessdoc, another thing that is overlooked is the advantages that the HIGHER-RANKED schools have.  Take, for example, some kid who has the athletic ability to get into the Ivy's, but either by (1) the numbers game; or (2) they fell slightly below the slighty-higher admissions standards of the Ivy League schools.  Those kids go to Williams and Amherst (or some of the other NESCACS ranked higher than Trinity).  Also, some kids who would otherwise go to the Ivy League schools choose the NESCAC because it is more likely that they will be able to play two sports (see, for example, Sean Keenan of Williams, perhaps the best QB in NESCAC history).

I'm one of the few who chose Trinity over Williams, because I liked it better, felt more comfortable there, closer to home, and while ranked lower than the other NESCACs, I was more than happy to get into a college that -- although ranked lower than the other schools in the league -- is by all accounts a very good school.  Hindsight is 20-20, and I don't know how my life would have been different if I went to Williams, but Trinity has been very good to me.

However, almost every student who can get into ALL of the NESCACs will choose the highest-ranked school they get into.  My best friend who graduated with me in high school and went to Williams to play QB and baseball... he was simply SHOCKED that I chose Trinity.  Apparently, it is very abberational for someone to do that.

THAT advantage of the higher-ranked schools seems to be ignored when we discuss Trinity's advantage based on its lower admission standards.  Keenan (and his younger brother who ended up transferring to Middlebury in order to be a starting QB at another NESCAC school -- he was playing behind an underclassman QB at Williams who was Player of the Year in the NESCAC) are the perfect examples of the competitive advantages that schools like Williams and Amherst have over Trinity (and the other higher-ranked schools as well).  The Bantam squad is probably full of guys who would have gone to Williams or Amherst if they had gotten in.  Simply stated, the higher-ranked schools get all of the "Ivy rejects" who are outstanding athletes.

So, while it would be silly to deny that Trinity has its own competitive recruiting advantage based on lower academic standards, the higher-ranked schools arguably have an equal, if not greater advantage, as the typical NESCACer will go to the highest-ranked school they get into.

Thats just something that I think is always overlooked when people trash Trinity.   Chessdoc, I like the way you look at things.  You have a winner's attitude that is lacking in people who simply cry about Trinity's advantage rather than going out there and trying to take out the big bad Bants.

Lets have a little perspective here people.  Trinity broke the streak THIS PAST SEASON.  That means that Williams had --  at some point -- a very similar winning streak, and just dominated the competition for a number of years in a row. 

Again, I'll never forget the way it felt to lose to Williams four years in a row.  Only one of those games (my freshman year, BEFORE Priore) was a game that we had a legitimate chance to win in the 2nd half, towards the very end of the game.  Those Trinity teams LOOKED IN THE MIRROR after those losses, and didn't bemoan the fact that kids like Keenan (again, arguably -- if not probably -- the best QB in the history of the NESCAC).  Yeah, it was annoying to go into games knowing that the other team had superior athletes... but we knew if was POSSIBLE for us to have won, but we just didn't get the job done.  It was OUR FAILURE, as well as THEIR PERFORMANCE that lead to the final scores in those games.  Yes, their SUPERIOR TALENT was the biggest reason we lost those games, but WE LOST THOSE GAMES.  Period.

So -- in general -- I'd appreciate that any conversations about "recruiting advantages" in the NESCAC include the HUGE advantages that schools like Williams and Amherst have.  Trinity's RECENT dominance might bring in the occasional football-crazed kid who otherwise would choose their school based entirely on its ranking... but that is not the norm.  It is the exception to the general rule that kids chose Williams and Amherst over Trinity.

Let these discussions be fair, and in that regard, the advantages held by ALL schools must be taken into consideration!

[F00TB@11F@N]

chessdoc:  A little side note on Trinity's Women's Soccer program...a lot of drama over the years from what I hear....c'mon the head coach is a guy, and not that a male coach can't do a great job coaching a women's soccer team, but let's be honest, does anyone really think that a male coach (any male for that matter) can deal with a female athlete who is going through "female issues" whatever "those issues" may be?  I know that I'm going to get bashed for saying that because there have obviously been some very successful male coaches throughout the history of female sports, but seriously...it takes one hell of a man to deal with a team of ovulating women!!! (I can't even deal with the women in my life half the time....does any one AGREE?)  But seriously, your daughter should go to Trinity for the great education she'll receive, the unmatched social experience that will prepare her social skills for job interviews, for the fact that she may feel more comfortable there than any other NESCAC school, and because you don't want her to end up in a budget music video shaking her breasts and doing cartwheels with a group of losers.  But she should absolutely NOT go there just because she wants to play soccer.  Hope this helps.

Let's get back to a topic that was brought up earlier:  The 2006 Recruiting Class

I heard that Trinity got a few good player this year:
TE CT
QB OH??
OL CT
DE CA
RB GA
LB MD
RB NJ
DL FL
WR MA
FS VA
WR CA
OL MA
RB CT
LB CA
LB MD 

A few other NESCAFE schools got some good ones:

Hamilton:
QB Transfer from AZ (JUCO)

Amherst:
OL AZ

Anyone else hear who got who? 

[chessdoc]

I was unaware of a fl dl going to trinity must be from a d1-3 school we were 5a so im out of loop there. as for rb ct are there any (joking) from which hs. you left out the most important reasojn she avoids big brother, and since im gonna watch football avoids me as well all in jest thanks for the info, any color on the maine schools recruits.

[Bullfrog]

Nescacfan05

Don't forget the LB that transferred from Manchester community college with the whopping under 900 SAT. 

The one point that I read is that Trinity coaches works so hard(No Question), but so does every other coach in this league.  Unfortunatley, not every coach in the league reports to the president of university and has full say of admissions.

You take any coach in this league and put them in that situation most would win.

Again this is not a knock on Trinity staff.

Also no kid that gets into Trinity has a chance at Williams.  Williams is like Yale and Harvard. 

[chessdoc]

Good point williams may weven be harder, but trinity is doing whats right for them . Willliams can do as they please no doubt, Someone is making a concious decision to not win by imitation. Wont it be great when somebody with hard work, talent and brains beats them When that occurs everyone will understand that they were made better by trinity and are better for the effort.

[bant551]

***Also no kid that gets into Trinity has a chance at Williams.  Williams is like Yale and Harvard.***

Dumbest quote I've ever read.  "No kid that gets into Trinity has a chance at Williams".  What if a kid applied to both, and got into Williams, but Trinity was the "safety school"?  Doesn't that very likely (and common) occurrence make your point entirely nonsensical?  If you were to get into Williams, with its higher standards, but also applied to Trinity, which happens all the time, then, as a simple matter of logic, the kid who got into Trinity and Williams "has a chance at Williams".  What a moronic post.

I got into both and chose Trinity.  Read my previous posts.  I don't have a particular affinity for Williams or Mr. Farley, who told me that I was "making the biggest mistake of my life".  Although I wish I could have beaten Williams while I was there, it sure was great to see that pompous jerk end his career on a sour note.  Not only did he harass me after I very politely told him I chose Trinity, he called my freakin' mother and started yapping at her.  Completely classless.  She wasn't very happy to be woken up after working a night shift in the ER by some elitist football coach who is telling her that "I hope four years of being comfortable is worth the rest of his life".

Thinking of that makes me want to vomit.  I was so happy to see him leave after a few average seasons.

But, his shock at me not going to Williams is a perfect example of the advantage Williams has in terms of recruitment.  He probably had already assigned a slot to me -- even though I made it entirely clear that although I appreciated the recruitment -- that I hadn't yet made up my mind.  He thought it was a shoo-in.

God forbid I liked another school better and decided to go there. 

"No kid that gets into Trinity has a chance at Williams".  That quote makes no sense at all.

Finally, Williams might "be like Yale and Harvard", but they got me in with an 1180 and B/B+, so Yale and Harvard must be willing to drastically lower standards as well.  Oh yeah, and I went to high school with a kid who went to Williams who certainly wouldn't have gotten into Trinity without football.  As a matter of fact, I'll bet that most of the players on Williams and Amherst WOULD NOT get into Trinity if they didn't play football.

There are advantages on both ends.  Get over yourself Bullfrog.  I also know a bunch of kids who played Williams football.  Now I don't know their SAT scores or high school GPAs... but lets just say we aren't talking about a bunch of young Einsteins here.

I'm sure you'd be happy if Trinity stopped recruiting nationally and just did what it always used to do: take the Williams and Amherst rejects and field mediocre teams.

I never once complained about how Williams had an advantage in terms of getting Ivy rejects when they were wiping the floor with Trinity.  Its just a sad, sad joke that FINALLY when the tables are turned, there has to be an excuse other than being outworked, or just being an inferior team.

Are you telling me that Williams and Amherst don't have the dual advantages of (1) getting the first crack at "Ivy rejects"; and (2) 99% of the time, a kid who gets into all the NESCACs will choose Williams or Amherst?

How did Scott Farley do on his SATs and what was his HS GPA?  He was a pretty dominant player, no?  I could name quite a few more names, but I don't feel like dumping on people the way you do.  I guess its natural that when things change, and once-proud programs become mediocre, they look elsewhere to assign the blame.  I mean, its not like Williams was going 7-1 all these past few years and was only losing to Trinity.  I do believe Williams has had some very average years lately, against ALL the teams in the league (even losing to some of the perennial worst teams in the league).   Stoping whining, PLEASE!

[bant551]

Sorry for the long posts, but I endured a 5-3 season, and two 4-4 seasons, and never once did I sit there crying and moaning after Williams beat the bag out of Trinity.  Never looked for excuses.  "Whaaaa, Keenan would have come to Trinity if Williams wasn't a better school, they have an advantage over us, whaaaaa".  None of that.  We knew that Williams had the best athletes in the league because at that point, Trinity was recruiting from the same pot of kids and was just getting the rejects from the New England area that weren't good enough to get pulled into Williams... but we never cried about it.  Never.

[chessdoc]

Bant sometimes it just does not pay to respond. snobby schools have positives and negatives. I have achieved great things in this life 4 great kids great wife, have saved countless lives. Im so proud of my kid that I can bust. Nevertheless given the chance we went for maine. Their were other options with and without football. Frankly when a couple of the more elite nescac came looking we put in little effort. Not for good or bad we all find our level. Please note if you do a google of wealthiest  americans who made the cash themselves williams and amherst do not dominate that list. I graduated from a school in that class given the chance my son had little interest. Do not feel second class with trinity be proud. Like I said I hope my daughter goes there and she can truly go anywhere (wish the son was that smart). As an observer when I see the trinity bashing it makes me sick. The elite attitude will motivate some to run harder with theball against them far more then trinities recruiting tactics. You did great and are the type of person this fat guy can respect. Take it  for what its worth . You had the right recipe on the field, struggle, ignore the trash and do not feel second class.It all comes out in the wash. As for regretting for the rest of your life. I think the last time somebody asked me where I went to school and it mattered was on my med school application. sour grapes all the way.

[F00TB@11F@N]

"...the Trinity/Colby game will be like USC versus Texas for the Rose Bowl..."
-a quote from Colby coach

I think the game is being played in Hartford this year...does Colby have the personnel to knock off the Bantams?  Are Colby's schemes superior to Trinity's?  Will the Trinity offense have the same dominating presence with the new system?  What are the White Mules' strengths and weaknesses?  What are the Bantams strengths and weaknesses?  Is there any legitimacy in the above statements?  (Does anyone care about this game, or is the Trinity/Williams game the one to watch?)

Hey Trin fans, lets stir it up again.  Any comments?