FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[frank uible]

Union: No need to speculate, Priore-coached Trinity played Farley-coached Williams a total of four times in years 2000-2003.

[Trin9-0]

Union: No need to speculate, Priore-coached Trinity played Farley-coached Williams a total of four times in years 2000-2003.

I played in each of those games, and unfortunately we only won my senior year. Farley was a great coach. Congrats to him and his induction to the College football HOF. I would have liked to see Priore stick around and establish a similar legacy, but I agree with tmerton in that he was not really cut out for a DIII coach. Hopefully, Devanney will have similar success at Trinity. I don't expect him to leave anytime soon.

Bullfrog: from what I've heard the Trinity admissions department is already starting to tighten up with regard to athletes. It will be interesting to see if and when this begins to affect the balance of power in the league.


One more quick thought.

If Trinity's dominance in football is attributed to the admission of better players who are less qualified accademically then why don't ALL Trinity sports teams dominate? The Bantams in other sports are subject to the same admissions requirements as the football team, yet traditionally lose to the Williams, Amherst and Middlebury programs. Could this be proof to support Bant551's point regarding the huge recruiting advantave that better accademic schools have in recruiting the best athletes?

No wonder why Williams has won the last 7 Directors Cups.

[bant551]

termerton, I understand what you are saying, but that doesn't change the bottom line.  Bullfrog is acting like those things he mentioned aren't THE KEY reason why Trinity is so well-prepared.  It clearly isn't a bunch of superior athletes trotting out onto the field -- even if they happen to have the most talent in any given year.

I mean, he mentioned a bunch of things Trinity does -- even if they aren't what the NESCAC is used to -- that are both legal, and advantages based on nothing other than hard work and dedication.
While in general I understand the point about D-3 football (especially in the NESCAC) used to just be an extension of high school ball... if you want to consistently beat Trinity these days, you are going to have to go the extra mile like they do, period.  And that isn't regarding any recruiting advantages.  You will have to be as prepared.

Show those statements to 100 people who know football, but don't know the NESCAC (the one about admitting that Trinity has created a football environment and work ethic none of the other schools have).  Ask them if -- being knowledgeable about football -- they thought that the team that took the extra steps to acieve greatness would have a huge advantage.

To be honest, I didn't like waking up early, but it DID get my to all my early classes.  Priore set up coordination between professors and students -- a liasion (sp?) who would be sort of an academic "advisor" to the team, who would build a good relationship but also try to make sure that all the players are getting their work done.

So I guess if you want things the way they used to be, you are either going to have to (1) forfeit to Trinity every year; or (2) join a flag football league.  No, seriously.  Flag football isn't that bad.  I used to look down on it, but there was actually live line play and stuff.  You don't have to watch videos, wake up early, lift weights, and noone makes you go to class, so I guess thats good too!

[gordonmann]

Congrats to Coach Farley of Williams on his induction into the Hall of Fame.

One of my favorite game day program covers is from a Trinity-Williams game in 1998.  The Trinity cartoon bantam mascot and the Williams cartoon cow mascot are trading smack talk on the cover with each talking up their respective coaches (Farley and Trinity's Don Miller).

[bant551]

I actually agree that he has an outstanding record and should be congratulated.  I wasn't thrilled with my personal experiences with the guy as a recruiter, but that aside -- his record speaks for itself. 

But then again, when someone impugns my school (and its success), and refuses to accept facts that shed light on the advantages that the other schools (and also refuses to acknowledge how vitally important "the program" as a whole is to Trinity's current winning streak), I'm not going to sit here and put up counterarguments based upon experience and my knowledge of how the league works.  Apparently having the best lifting program and most comprehensive practice and game video footage is not relevant (or, in the case of some schools, having such a program at all), and isn't a sign of being a great coach.

Bottom line: he should be congratulated, just like Priore.  But if one is going to be attacked, the same standards apply to all.  If Priore's character and program and the advantages he has are going to be attacked based on hearsay and exprapolation, you have opened up the unfortunate fact (for you trying to make "coaching doesn't matter arguments") that people at Trinity have brains, and can fire back.  It would be nice if it didn't go on at all, but the only way to shut people up sometimes is to make them look at themselves in the mirror.

[bant551]

***He retired with an overall record of 114-19-3 for a win percentage of .849, which currently ranks him sixth among coaches in all divisions in college football history.***

Thats actually AMAZING.  I might point out to Bullfrog that if that record wasn't based on some sort of obvious competitive advantage -- regardless of coach Farley's abilities as a coach -- he would have been an NFL head coach a long time ago, making millions of dollars.

But then again, Bullfrog's argument is that "coaching doesn't mean anything".  So, by NECESSARY IMPLICATION, coach Farley should not be congratulated, because quite clearly a record like THAT could not be compiled but-for just a pure talent advantage.

Bullfrog, your argument IS that coaching doesn't matter, right?

Well I disagree and say that those numbers are truly impressive and the man should be congratulated.

[frank uible]

Farley would have been a highly successful coach at any level - in my opinion.

[gordonmann]

Farley's record is all the more impressive since the NESCAC has such a short season.  He was a great coach.

[Trin9-0]

It is impressive to accomplish that many wins while only playing 8 games a year. I understand the argument that they were beating the same 8 or 9 teams each year, but winning nearly 85% of your games in any sport at any level in any league is incredible. Even with Trinity's recent dominance Priore's win percentage was "only" .812

[bant551]

Haha, yeah I looked that up too.  Trinity MUST be cheating if they come CLOSE to achieving what Williams has -- albeit over a much smaller period of time (you know, 4 years compared to a few... um decades).

Until the very end it seems that Williams never did any worse than our 7-1 season that started the current streak.

I knew Farley's record was impressive, but this should definitively end all of those idiotic arguments about unfair advantages.  Another team COMES CLOSE in 4 years to what you've done for DECADES?  To come close to what you've ALWAYS had leads to the inference of cheating?

Lets not only congratulate him, but also lets use this to get beyond the pettiness and crying about advantages.  If you'd like to continue the debate as to whether or not coaching matters in football, or whether lifting weights, watching film and having meetings helps a team, etc., I'd love to engage.

Bullfrog, wanna hug it out?

[frank uible]

No hugs - beat it a few more times with a club, it might still be twitching.

[Knightstalker]

No hugs - beat it a few more times with a club, it might still be twitching.

No Wiiilllllburrrrr, no!

[Bullfrog]

bant551

Get over your infactusation with the Eph men we don't want you.  Second, every coach in that league works-some just get everything had and spoon fed to them ie.TR(fat cats).   Why other sports in Bant don't work because traditionally in most places especially D3 Fb only works.  From what I heard all other sports at TR were crying about Chucks work ethic. 

If you knew ANYTHING about WL back then, you would know scheme wise they were very simplistic and I won't tell you their secrets.  Back then and even know except Tr and Am they are the best in that league and at that time personel wise they would just kick ass. 

Now its a shame Bants coulldn't make such a run like they did recently.  No one is questioning chucks work ethic as he obviously took it to next level with talent that the league really hasn't seen the last two years.  If you look at it Bants have really then been chock artist since going back to 80's that I am aware of they have had state school standard admissons.  But that is okay!

Lastly, GET over your hiden laten fantasies about WL!  It is obvious you are like that Vito in the Sopranos.

[bant551]

Actually, I think most Trinity alumns would be proud of the way I've blasted your faulty statements based upon faulty logic and ridiculous attempts to differentiate between the advantages Williams has and the advantages Trinity has.  Williams alumns, on the other hand -- after reading your posts -- will probably (rightfully) call for the complete abolition of the football program.

"Scheme wise they were very simplistic and [you] won't tell [me] their secrets"?

So the schemes were very simple, but the superior athletes just trotted out there and beat the bag out of the competition, even WORSE, record-wise, than Trinity has under Priore?

Now maybe admissions standards have tightened at Williams since you went there, but you aren't doing a very good job of representing.

Every coach in the league works but some get things spoon fed to them?  You admitted Priore established more of a "program" than Williams ever had, but Williams still has a higher winning percentage under Farley than Trinity does under Priore.  Isn't the logical conclusion that Farley was just trotting superior athletes out onto the field?

Again, you enjoy arguing with yourself.  Noone said that Trinity doesn't have the most talent in the league.  The (well deserved) congratulations to Farley, however, have SHATTERED your arguments about unfair advantages. 

And I think you were trying to say I had an "infatuation" with Williams, but that is not the case.  Those just happen to be the snobs complaining about getting the bag beaten out of them.  As soon as there is a new boss in town, the pouting commences.

I know this is a message board and all, but I hope you are capable of organizing your thoughts and making clearer arguments than you've demonstrated here.  Its kind of like second-hand embarassment actually.

And you can keep those "secrets" about the simple scheme Williams always ran.  I think quite clearly the "secret" was that they had better players.  Hahaha, "secrets".  You know, I always wanted to know the "secrets" you guys used when Keenan threw a 95-yard TD pass to a wide-open receiver who was just running down the field.

As soon as you realize you started this whole argument (and in the process completely embarassed yourself), the healing process can begin.

[tmerton]

Yes, bullfrog started it and yes his thoughts are disorganized - frankly, all he's doing is pushing buttons, but bant you're responding like clockwork. 

And bant, professionally you're going to run into this time and time again.  Looks like you're going to be writing a lot of letters to opposing counsel.  Good luck with that.