FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Trin9-0]

Oliphant was a good NESCAC player because of his size and strength. However, he wasn't half the athlete that Carillo was at Trinity. He's definately the most dominant offensive lineman the league has seen over the past few years.

Not sure where Ethan Brooks Williams '96 belongs in this discussion. An NESCAC defensive player of the year, who had an extended career in the NFL as an offensive lineman.

[dirtybirds8-0]

That brings up a great point:

I had the opportunity to play with some outstanding athletes during my highschool days in PA.  In fact, my highschool co-captain was Kyle Eckle who went on to play FB for Navy and played with the Patriots and Dolphins during pre-season.  That being said, I think I can honestly say that there have been several NESCAC players who I would consider worthy of a tryout or even to have a chance to make an NFL team.  I understand that size may play a part in certain cases, but I think it is just the thought of a small D3 league that keeps certain players from taking it to the next level.  Anyone else agree with my assesment that more players should take a chance and try out for an NFL team at a combine?

[LinemenRathletes2]

I would be interested to know how much Oliphant weighed when he came in as a freshman. I know he is listed at 6'5 310lbs, which is enourmous considering the average nescac o-lineman is probably 6'1- 6'3, 250-285. If he was that big coming in, why wasn't he picked up by an ivy or a 1-AA somewhere, if not a division 1 school? My opinion ( derived from watching considerable game film and seeing him play in person) is that he was dominant because he was blocking defensive ends that were 6'0 225lbs. I thought he had poor form and little mobility (it looked like he had knee problems). He was able to pancake a ton of smaller defensive lineman while blocking the run and was wide enough to get his body in front of the pass rush. That being said, he got it done in the nescac but my point is that with his size he should have been getting it done in the ivy league. I would have liked to see him compete against Blair last year, on the field or on a wrestling mat.

[cruiser]

word is that oliphant came in around 6'3" 260, grew two inches and gained the rest of the weight. i dont think there are knee problems. hes just very big and the extra support provided by knee braces cant hurt. technique wise he is very sound and there is a great deal of skill there. people overlook the fact that even if he were much smaller he would still be an excellent offensive lineman. oliphant is an example of a guy who came in as a nescac player as a freshman and through hard work, dedication and sheer desire (qualities that the trinity guys on this page always talk about the bantams having) he became a player good enough for nfl auditions.

[LinemenRathletes2]

thats a huge growth spurt. I thought he might have knee problems because it looks like he plays fairly upright, hardly any knee bend, and considering he had a 2 inch, 50 lb growth spurt, it is likely he developed knee problems just trying to support that sudden extra weight.Certainly he does well getting those long arms out in front of him which really helped him put defensive guys on their backs, but i still think his dominance ultimately stemmed from the sheer size advantage. I think he may have been only a decent nescac lineman if he were 'much smaller', but he isn't and he was dominant, so agree to disagree i suppose.

[bant551]

Yeah, that guy Sherman was very good.  He had a name even back when I was at Trinity... he must've been a freshman or sophmore... I think I remember concentrating on him alot in film because he was tough.

There was also actually a really good DL on Hamilton who was either a junior or senior in 2002 I think.  I was impressed at how he played the entire game at such a high level even though the score was really ugly.  Forgot his name though.

[bant551]

Just read Barnard's article.  Was he making some sort of play upon words when he wrote of the "Jeannie in a bottle", or does he not know how to spell it (or am I the one with a spelling problem)? 

Sorry, just couldn't help pointing that out, especially because of what his article was about!

[speedy]

Just read Barnard's article.  Was he making some sort of play upon words when he wrote of the "Jeannie in a bottle", or does he not know how to spell it (or am I the one with a spelling problem)?   . .

I noticed the same thing. Beyond that bizarre remark, the Barnard arguments are questionable for a number of reasons.

First, at least 4 NESCACs (Bowdoin, Middlebury, Bates, and Conn College) do not require applicants to submit SAT scores. Does Barnard really think that those schools are going to change their admissions policies to accommodate his notion of how best to measure academic potential and ensure fair competition in sports? Bowdoin dropped the SAT requirement in the late 1960s and certainly is not about to reinstitute it.

Second, Barnard focuses only on something he calls "American" team sports to make his case that Williams is lagging behind the competition in the NESCAC. This little trick allowed him to exclude from his calculations soccer (where Williams continues to be a total powerhouse in the NESCAC) and all the many individual sports at which Williams excels (track, swimming, tennis, etc.).

And third (and perhaps most important), IMO the real reason he is honked off is because two of the SAT optional schools (Middlebury and Bowdoin) emerged as baseball powerhouses this season. Middlebury won the NESCAC play-offs and Bowdoin had the best regular season record in the NESCAC; both made the NCAAs but Williams did not; Bowdoin and Tufts combined to eliminate Williams from the double-elimination NESCAC play-offs. Middlebury, in particular, took things to a whole new level this year (from never having made the NESCAC play-offs to winning them). I suspect that the bottom line is that Barnard's complaints are really all about his baseball team.

[Jonny Utah]

Just read Barnard's article.  Was he making some sort of play upon words when he wrote of the "Jeannie in a bottle", or does he not know how to spell it (or am I the one with a spelling problem)?   . .

I noticed the same thing. Beyond that bizarre remark, the Barnard arguments are questionable for a number of reasons.

First, at least 4 NESCACs (Bowdoin, Middlebury, Bates, and Conn College) do not require applicants to submit SAT scores. Does Barnard really think that those schools are going to change their admissions policies to accommodate his notion of how best to measure academic potential and ensure fair competition in sports? Bowdoin dropped the SAT requirement in the late 1960s and certainly is not about to reinstitute it.

Second, Barnard focuses only on something he calls "American" team sports to make his case that Williams is lagging behind the competition in the NESCAC. This little trick allowed him to exclude from his calculations soccer (where Williams continues to be a total powerhouse in the NESCAC) and all the many individual sports at which Williams excels (track, swimming, tennis, etc.).

And third (and perhaps most important), IMO the real reason he is honked off is because two of the SAT optional schools (Middlebury and Bowdoin) emerged as baseball powerhouses this season. Middlebury won the NESCAC play-offs and Bowdoin had the best regular season record in the NESCAC; both made the NCAAs but Williams did not; Bowdoin and Tufts combined to eliminate Williams from the double-elimination NESCAC play-offs. Middlebury, in particular, took things to a whole new level this year (from never having made the NESCAC play-offs to winning them). I suspect that the bottom line is that Barnard's complaints are really all about his baseball team.

Speedy, a couple of comment of your points....

1)Actually Hamilton, (and Union) have optional SAT admissions policies as well.  And...in order to get some equity, there might have to be some change in admissions policies, (or at least a common formula between nescac schools) in order to make a fair system..(like the IVY leagues). 

2)I only really care about the "american" team sports (and lacrosse) as well.  Im assuming Barnard could give a crap less about soccer or the sears cup for that matter.  Sports like swimming, soccer, tennis, skiing, track etc dont need the d3 jocks to be good nationally like football, baseball, basketball and hockey do.

3) Williams has never been a baseball school since barnard has been there.  Lets not forget, he is also an assistant football coach who has seen hundreds of kids not get into williams become his opponents on the football and baseball field.  This is what he is so pissed off about.  Williams is unable to get the kids anymore that they used to as their # of tips have gone down while other schools tips with lower standards have gone up.

I think he would be satisfied if nescac schools used the same formula as Ivy league schools did.  Then no one could ever make an excuse about Williams or Trinitys football success.

[malden]

In speaking with some very informed Williams Football sources, it seems there is a good deal of positive expectations for the upcoming season, they have two excellent QB's, their skill position receivers are back, the line needs to fill a few holes but my sources said they have a solid group of Sophmores who should contribute. In this class are two solid RB's so I am told. Does not seem to be the case that they can't get solid student athletes as Barnard states.     

[bant551]

I honestly think its just a cycle.  The only thing that really happened is that the is finally a third team that has left a long-term mark of success on the league.  Prior to Trinity's streak, 7-1 and 8-0 records were almost always obtained by Williams and Amherst, and teams like Trinity and Colby and Wesleyan (yes, at one point) would sometimes go 6-2 or even occasionally 7-1 and get a share of the league title.

Williams will be back, I'm confident about that.  Ray Liota, playing the father of infamous drug dealer George Jung in the movie "Blow", once said "Sometimes you're flush and sometimes you're bust, and when you're up, it's never as good as it seems, and when you're down, you never think you're gonna be up again. But life goes on. Remember that. [edited for relevancy]."  After an unprecedented streak, a coach that was there for a very short period of time only came CLOSE to the legendary long-time coach at Williams' career record.

My whole problem with his thesis is that in reality, the only thing that has happened is that Williams is not virtually guaranteed a title each and every season (or at least a share of it).  Not that big of a deal to me.   Kinda self-serving on his part.

[LinemenRathletes2]

Remember poster Bullfrog?? the guy who whined constantly about Trinity.... is he not Coach Barnard? didn't he say that he was a nescac football coach?

[Trin9-0]

In speaking with some very informed Williams Football sources, it seems there is a good deal of positive expectations for the upcoming season, they have two excellent QB's, their skill position receivers are back, the line needs to fill a few holes but my sources said they have a solid group of Sophmores who should contribute. In this class are two solid RB's so I am told. Does not seem to be the case that they can't get solid student athletes as Barnard states.

Malden: I don't think Barnard's gripe is that they still can't get solid student athletes. It just sounds as though he's more concerned with the athletes (and # of athletes) that other schools are getting. Williams will indeed have a very talented team this year. I think they have the best chance to knock of the Bants.

Linemen: Though it wouldn't suprise me if Barnard was Bullfrog I can assure you there are plenty of NESCAC coaches out there who are unhappy with the way Trinity has dominated the league in recent years.

[dirtybirds8-0]

I don't know if everyone can access the Trinity Tripod through NESCACNATION.COM but there is an article that will raise hell once everyone has had a chance to digest the contents.  I was amazed by the article...mostly by the editor of the school paper who is so adamant about bringing down the program once and for all.  Could this mark the end of a successful run?  For all those Williams fans...run to the website now and enjoy the reading, this is what you have all been waiting for...it is such a shame that this stuff can be so inaccurate and still be printed.

Tough start to the season...and it's only June!

[LinemenRathletes2]

I think that you will find that probably the majority of nescac football programs have faced this issue recently, regardless of the teams record, admissions standards, etc... I have never taken it too personally because I believe that the basis of this argument in many cases boils down to jealousy and misinformation. I have always taken solace in the fact that the kids who write these things typically don't have a passionate bone in their body. We all know that college football (and many other collegiate sports for that matter) is a second job, that we go to the same classes, do the same homework as everyone else and then spend all of our free time in meetings, watching film, lifting running,etc... and thats on top of practice, travel time and games. The type of people who write these articles couldn't make it through the first two days of preseason, our passion for this sport is something they want but will never understand so they attack it every chance they get. they get so wound up in their school rank and GPA and standardized tests that they lose touch with whats really important in life: being passionate about something and working hard to accomplish goals that make you happy. we were not put here to be cynical and critical and bitch and whine. That being said, I think the best letter I have ever read on this topic is from Peter Lasagna, Bates College Lacrosse Coach. It is a letter to the editor of the Bates Student and I believe it addresses the same type of issue presented in the Trinity Tripod. It seems like all of the people who take this point of view get their information from Bowen, Shulman, and Levin, and Lasagna presents some pretty poignant counterpoints to this argument. 

http://thebatesstudent.com/mambo/content/view/624/5/

I don't know what the deal is with posting links... but if I'm not allowed to then go to nescacnation... bates student... search Lasagna... its dated 11/01/05... Title: Letters: Community Responds to Football Question: Three-sport Coach